Are you always aware of your checking compulsions?

[Cora]

I think maybe in this case I really just need to accept that it happened, and that I can't change the past. That I made a mistake and I need to move on. 

[Cora]

It just hurts so much because it's something that brings me a lot of pain, shame and disgust, and I just wish it had never happened. 

[Caramoole]

5 minutes ago, Cora said:

@Caramoole, I mean no disrespect at all, I promise, but I think it was more than just a conclusion based on my anxiety. I know what I did, even though in those seconds I simply didn't think straight (I sounds like a criminal...) and I'm completely sure I let his feet on my pelvic area on purpose. I did do that. And I'm sure it was because the feeling in my groinal area felt enjoyable. It makes me really mad because I know I'm not that kind of person but in that moment it's like I was mentally frozen and couldn't digest what was really going on.  

And also with no disrespect, I think you are wrong and are simply struggling to comprehend the symptoms that are experienced with OCD.  I also think that the way this thread has spun off to one made of personal theories and opinion is unhelpful to you.  There is an infinite amount of information in books, in articles etc, written by leading experts in the treatment of OCD that offer explanations and examples of how a simple, innocent interaction with an infant is distorted by OCD.  You know all this Cora but unless you then move onto the next step of addressing the reactions, the compulsions, you will continue to suffer and experience this level of pain.

[Caramoole]

7 minutes ago, Cora said:

I think maybe in this case I really just need to accept that it happened, and that I can't change the past. That I made a mistake and I need to move on. 

The major point you're missing is that there was no mistake, just a misinterpretation of a normal situation that has happened as a result of you suffering from OCD.  Also (as mentioned above) it's not enough to say "I need to move on".....Oh, that it was so simple   You need to do as advised as before.......Acceptance of what OCD does, how it manifests.  An understanding of why you feel so distressed.  Indentification of all the behaviours (compulsions) that you do as a way of dealing with the anxiety. A willingness to try and change this automatic reaction......only then can you steadily start to move on.

[Cora]

@Caramoole, can I ask if you think there's a possibility I did something wrong but my OCD is adding more pain, shame and disgust? I'm sorry for repeating myself but, as I said, the incident wasn't a second or two but much longer which makes it the opposite of insignificant and innocent.   

I'm quite in a distress. My mind is running everywhere when it comes to this subject and while I want to accept it as OCD, it seems wrong. Isn't that a sign of something? 

[Caramoole]

Sorry Cora, you know that I'm not going to reassure you on that one.  Even on this page the information is there.  It's your bit now.....you have to start on these compulsions.....right now seeking reassurance and answers to try and bring the anxiety down.  Work on the rumination

[snowbear]

17 minutes ago, Cora said:

can I ask if you think there's a possibility I did something wrong but my OCD is adding more pain, shame and disgust?

No. Read what Caramoole said again:

1 hour ago, Caramoole said:

The major point you're missing is that there was no mistake, just a misinterpretation of a normal situation that has happened as a result of you suffering from OCD. 

No mistake, no wrongdoing. Nothing which requires pain shame and disgust at all.  That you think it does shows your interpretation is way off.

20 minutes ago, Cora said:

the incident wasn't a second or two but much longer which makes it the opposite of insignificant and innocent. 

What you did was a checking / self-tresting compulsion. Including checking to see if you were enjoying the experience and focusing on your body's responses.

Doesn't matter whether a checking action lasts a second or hours of non-stop compulsing, that has no bearing whatsoever on whether it was innocent or not.

Forget about what you felt, forget about how long it lasts, forget about whether you consciously initiated the act or it was an unconscious urge you acted on - none of this matters.

It's clear you've convinced yourself these kinds of thoughts/feelings/actions are 'real' instead of seeing that you have an obsession about not commiting any kind of sexual assault and you do endless compulsions

to prove or disprove that you acted wrongly.

That's why it's OCD. Tha's why you get better by resisting the compulsions.

[malina]

2 hours ago, Cora said:

She said everyone makes mistakes and that incident doesn't have to define my whole life.

To be honest, I am confused by this therapist's reaction and can see why @Cora you still feel as though you have done something wrong. I think the way @Caramoole and @snowbear have explained it to you makes so much sense and they are saying that there was no mistake (which I agree with, it was a completely normal behaviour/activity with a baby), but I can see how the therapist's response may seem contradictory to that. I'm not sure what to think.

[Dakagraphics-David]

The important thing is, the baby is okay... Everything is fine with them, Yes? They will still love you... Do you still remember things in detail of what occurred when you were a baby? It's all gone now... Forgive yourself and move on...

David

[Caramoole]

32 minutes ago, Dakagraphics-David said:

The important thing is, the baby is okay... Everything is fine with them, Yes? They will still love you... Do you still remember things in detail of what occurred when you were a baby? It's all gone now... Forgive yourself and move on...

David

Again......the point is being missed.  There was never a problem with the baby, nothing to be forgiven

[Cora]

10 hours ago, snowbear said:

What you did was a checking / self-tresting compulsion. Including checking to see if you were enjoying the experience and focusing on your body's responses.

@snowbear, does it still apply if at times I didn't know/wasn't aware of doing a compulsion? Also, doesn't the intention matter in this case as well? Because in my head, the intentions were evil. 

[Cora]

9 hours ago, malina said:

To be honest, I am confused by this therapist's reaction and can see why @Cora you still feel as though you have done something wrong. I think the way @Caramoole and @snowbear have explained it to you makes so much sense and they are saying that there was no mistake (which I agree with, it was a completely normal behaviour/activity with a baby), but I can see how the therapist's response may seem contradictory to that. I'm not sure what to think.

@malina, I think my therapist just didn't want to give me any more reassurance (every session I'm looking for it so she's trying her best not to give it to me). Also, I don't think she directly said it was a mistake, so maybe I didn't understand properly. Normally, during the session, we refer to this as a memory that is causing me feelings of shame and guilt, but I don't think she actually classified it as a mistake. 

[snowbear]

45 minutes ago, Cora said:

does it still apply if at times I didn't know/wasn't aware of doing a compulsion?

Of course. Most people are unaware their compulsions are compulsions - until they learn about OCD and learn to look out for them, label them correctly and resist them.

You should by now be aware what your compulsions are. We've told you often enough!

You should also be aware that your biggest compulsion is to label everything as sexual (when it isn't), evil (when it isn't) and to ruminate endlessly on how evil you are - which you aren't, because none of the things you labelled as evil or sexual were what you thought they were in the first place.

 

50 minutes ago, Cora said:

in my head, the intentions were evil. 

And there's your problem in a single sentence.

You interpret innocent, normal and natural behaviours as evil. You're obsessed with sexual assault and wrongdoing and as a result you interpret everything you think, feel and do in that context.

It's the way you think about (interpret) everything which makes you see evil in everything you do.

The outcome is you continuously scare yourself. So you do compulsive behaviours to reassure yourself and test yourself.

But then you interpret those compulsive behaviours with the same faulty obsessive thinking as before and all it does is convince you there really was something sexual going on and the evil you feel must be real.

Somehow you have to get away from the habit of thinking about everything as sexual/ evil. Stop looking at the world thtrough this OCD lens and start interpreting things (thinking about things) more normally.

What do you think it will take to get you to do that?

[malina]

4 hours ago, Cora said:

@malina, I think my therapist just didn't want to give me any more reassurance (every session I'm looking for it so she's trying her best not to give it to me). Also, I don't think she directly said it was a mistake, so maybe I didn't understand properly. Normally, during the session, we refer to this as a memory that is causing me feelings of shame and guilt, but I don't think she actually classified it as a mistake. 

Well that makes a lot more sense. So in a way, what she is saying is that everyone has memories that cause them shame and guilt, but we all have to learn to move on from those memories. But you see what you are doing, right? Your therapist won't give you reassurance so you come and seek it from the forum.

Let's see what you can do differently. Did your therapist give you any advice about how you move on?

[Cora]

@snowbear, thank you so very much for this amazing explanation. 

11 hours ago, snowbear said:

You interpret innocent, normal and natural behaviours as evil. You're obsessed with sexual assault and wrongdoing and as a result you interpret everything you think, feel and do in that context.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I really want to apologise if I come across that away but really that's not my intention, but something doesn't feel right. Yes, the act itself with the baby was a normal thing/activity, but how can my intentions not count? What about murderers, criminals, and abuser? They could use the same explanation when asked why the killed and abused someone. That just doesn't make sense. 

11 hours ago, snowbear said:

But then you interpret those compulsive behaviours with the same faulty obsessive thinking as before and all it does is convince you there really was something sexual going on and the evil you feel must be real.

 

11 hours ago, snowbear said:

Somehow you have to get away from the habit of thinking about everything as sexual/ evil. Stop looking at the world thtrough this OCD lens and start interpreting things (thinking about things) more normally.

And let's say I was performing a compulsion at that time and simply wasn't aware of it but how can the feelings of enjoying it all in a sexual way not count? I let the baby's feet on my pelvic area because I enjoyed the sensation in my groinal area - that is very, very sexual, and I find it very hard to comprehend how it can be a compulsion.

Again, I'm really sorry because I mean no offense. I really want to properly understand this subject in my life. I want, once and for all, to be able to move on from it but I don't think I can do it without understanding it. 

 

[Cora]

Thank you for your reply, @malina.

8 hours ago, malina said:

Let's see what you can do differently. Did your therapist give you any advice about how you move on?

We're currently doing EMDR as we've tried so many other methods but nothing seemed to help. The main advice I've been given is that I need to sit with the memory whenever it my brain brings it up. I just have to sit with it and accept that it's there, no running away from it - which I'm clearly doing right now. She also said I need to try to be kind to myself and accept that I'm only human.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by Cora

[Caramoole]

38 minutes ago, Cora said:

And let's say I was performing a compulsion at that time and simply wasn't aware of it

What compulsion were you performing do you think?

[Cora]

 

16 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

What compulsion were you performing do you think?

During the incident, as stupid as it sounds, I kind of froze in the moment and was only focusing on the feeling in my groinal area. But I was also aware of the fact that it felt enjoyable. Afterwards, of course, I started ruminating and even tried to confess to my other cousin (the eldest of the three children) but because she was only 15 it seemed very uncomfortable to do so. 

Yes, I felt terrible as soon as the incident happened, but I was aware of the feeling and didn't stop it on time. 

[discuccsant]

I seriously want to apologize for my personal opinions. I really thought about everything and tried to reflect upon what was said by everyone here.

Furthermore, I think I might be just “OCD free” and that I'm somehow not capable anymore to understand this distorted world view sufferers do have. Likewise, I think all of what I said, apply to people who in fact did mistakes, but not on people with OCD and where they overreact to simple feelings/thoughts/urges. People should forgive themselves and grow out of mistakes. But people with OCD should just accept, that they suffer from intrusive thoughts and that they are in fact people, that are the least likely to do something like that.

For me it was like, as if I'm talking with people who don't suffer from OCD and basically thereby by a though-action-fusion. I also gave people a lot of explanations about “Real Events” mostly, but in several cases didn't consider, that several people I replied to actually have intrusive thoughts about them beforehand. It's as if I just “accepted” what people wrote in here, without questioning their subjective reality at all. I just believed them, that their distorted subjective reality is, in fact, the objective reality, which is clearly not the case for people with OCD. What I did, was focusing on the “forgiving yourself”-part, I think. So you once watched questionable porn when you were younger? Move on. So you once playfully annoyed your child? No, that's not bullying. Dude, you think this girl was hot, even though you're in a relationship? I also think that. Just look at their hips! — don't say anything to my wife, though, haha.

Obviously OCD is must more complex, than just exaggerating the importance of some REAL event. That's what I was focusing on. I think this might explain to everyone here, why I wrote what I wrote. I just missed the fact, that stuff like “thought-action-fusion”, “groinal response”, “checking/testing” and so on existed. They are clear symptoms of OCD. And they are the reason MOST in here suffer from OCD. The “feeling guilty”-part is something I think might happen to people, who are just good people. But it isn't necessary an OCD thing. Yet, the combination of this extreme moral compass AND OCD is something, that makes people feel really guilty: OCD makes you believe things, you afterwards feel guilty of, because of your very high morals. I should have questioned the things, people claimed and not just accepting that, as if it's the truth. I think this basically sums it up: I always tried to question this very extreme “black and white”, “all or nothing” and “good or bad” thinking, without giving any second thoughts about OCD itself in all of this.

Likewise, I always compare people with OCD with people without OCD: How would they move on from a situation like this? Would they also feel bad like this? And I promise to everyone here, not ONCE, did I read something, that wasn't harmless. Yet it seems, that I didn't really understand, that the distorted world view didn't allow the sufferers, to also see, how OCD distorted their perception of reality. And as everyone said: It's super important to understand that, if you do have OCD. In fact, I was also aware of that in the very beginning. I learned to move on from that, with time. So that's why it's not really a “big thing” for me anymore and something, I never really put in a relation with OCD anymore.

Remembering my suffering, I mostly had problems with accepting stuff, like I just explained above: “Oh my god, I should not feel any attraction to other women! I'm a cheater in disguise!”. I had the most rigid moral compass, anyone could have had, haha. That's why I'm also mostly writing to people, who in fact suffer from real events, as I said before. I'm giving them advice, to move on from that. And I think that's okay. I didn't suffer that much from thought-action-fusion.

I think all of this made me give people very, very bad advice here and then. Each person's OCD might be different and has its different tone and attacks different vulnerabilities of people.

So, coming back to all of this:

Cora, I think everyone here, except me, is right here. I also suffered from the very same theme as you. It was the worst. I also remember incidents, where it felt, for me, as if I have acted on urges. The movements I made in these incidents, though, were always “necessary”, because they had to be done anyway. So it was pretty easy to dismiss them as irrelevant, no matter what I felt at the moment I did something. I was able to beat the guilt out of that, by being like: Okay, you might have touched this guy's hand out of sexual intent, when you handed over him his money, but who cares, lol? Just a suddenly gay moment, haha. It's a different scenario in reality actually, but it's very comparable to it. Yet, I never questioned if it really was out of “sexual intent” in this very moment. I really question that now looking back, as I remember that one second before I had extreme anxiety and tried to escape the situation, but couldn't. How can my emotions suddenly switch out of nowhere from hating something to wanting it a second later? That doesn't make any sense. 

And here comes OCD with its intrusive thoughts and urges. I should have never given you any advice, as I clearly didn't understand, that you suffer extremely from a misperception of reality. And I think, it's in fact what Caramoole, Snowbear, Maline and everybody else always tried to tell you: Don't believe your OCD! Your OCD just makes you believe things, which in fact, never happened the way you think it might have. They are completely right when they say, that you SHOULDN'T feel guilty, because you DON'T HAVE TO, because NOTHING HAPPENED, even though OCD tried to make you BELIEVE OTHERWISE and CORRUPTED your perception of this. OCD just plays its tricks on you.

I'm really sorry to everyone here. You were clearly in the right, and I was clearly in the wrong. Can someone delete my posts in this thread? They are really harmful.

[PolarBear]

On 04/11/2021 at 15:14, Hdigtts said:

You stroked a dog? 
 

That’s what I am reading from your post

Not quite.

Cora did an action.

Cora had a thought.

Cora LINKED the action to the thought.

We see this fairly often. 

I wrestled with my nephew and my hand touched his butt. I got a thought that I left my hand there too long. Therefore, I am a pedophile.

The actions are always normal, everyday stuff that no one else would question. The thoughts are obsessions. It is the linkage that causes the real problem.

[Cora]

10 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

I wrestled with my nephew and my hand touched his butt. I got a thought that I left my hand there too long

The difference between you and me, @PolarBear, is that I did it on purpose. I let the baby's feet on my pelvic area on purpose because of that thought/feeling. 

[Caramoole]

18 minutes ago, Cora said:

and was only focusing on the feeling in my groinal area. But I was also aware of the fact that it felt enjoyable

Yes, you were focussing on a sensation in your groinal area.  We've talked many times about how when we put our attention on something, it is common to feel that sensation.  We've also talked many times how this is a very common occurance with OCD sufferers.  Do you remember that?

[discuccsant]

I think this video sums it up quite good. Maybe this helps you, Cora?

[Caramoole]

Just now, Cora said:

The difference between you and me, @PolarBear, is that I did it on purpose. I let the baby's feet on my pelvic area on purpose because of that thought/feeling. 

And was the baby harmed Cora?  Was this an action that you think you should be investigated for and that the authorities should prosecute for?

[Cora]

2 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Yes, you were focussing on a sensation in your groinal area.  We've talked many times about how when we put our attention on something, it is common to feel that sensation.  We've also talked many times how this is a very common occurance with OCD sufferers.  Do you remember that?

Yes, I do remember that, Caramoole. But it's not really about the sensation. It's about what happened during it, which is the fact that I enjoyed it and didn't stop it.