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HOCD or Denial?


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I have been plagued with ''groinal responses'' or arousal sensations.  My sex drive to women is gone.  Straight stuff that used to turn me on is not anymore.

I fear the groinal responses are real arousal and then the intense fear I have of being gay shuts it down.  Why do I think this?

This morning and some other mornings I will be groggy in a semi conscious state and in and out of dreams.  Something gay popped into my dream and it caused me to get a semi erection.  I then woke up in fear.

I want to believe this is ocd so much.  I have a girlfriend now and am terrified I am just in denial and a repressed gay.  I think I am repressed because the groianls occur so frequently now to men and then this fear puts the breaks on it. 

I realise I am neurotic mess in many areas of life. Covid, Cancer, fear of accidents etc. so I can see that maybe just maybe this could also be ocd as a possibility.

 

But then I see my gay finger ratio and lack of arousal to women now and fear that this is actually real and not ocd.   Its really frightening to have stuff that used to turn you on not and stuff you never thought of is now.

I have tried giving in and accepting being gay and tried numerous times to masturbate about men but I still dont get a resolution. 

I am crazy on top of it.  This last week I am scared I have cancer, Weils disease, Covid, skin cancer just to name a few worries.

 

Can someone help?  If my logical brain no longer believes I am straight due to lack of evidence what hope is there?

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Hi,

A common pattern with OCD is:

(1) a strong, intrusive fear that you can't shake.

(2) attempts to resolve the fear through some sort of compulsion (research, checking, testing yourself etc.)

(3) possible short-term relief due to the compulsions, but it doesn't last and over time gets worse.

(4) inability to find a concrete, permanent answer to your fears.

 

It sounds like you're definitely experiencing this pattern.  I think the two most helpful things for you to do would be:

(1) recognize that you're going to continue to have these thoughts and fears, at least in the short-term.

(2) don't engage with the thoughts.  don't debate them, and don't try to seek out solutions/testing yourself.  instead, continue focusing on the other things in your life.

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This is the same old thing. At least six years of it. Same doubts. Same looking for reassurance.

You are incredibly stuck. Perhaps more stuck than anyone I've come across. The reason you are stuck is simple... you keep doing the same things. You repeat a pattern that is entrenched, and it does no good. Your endless compulsions keep you stuck.

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Hey, 

I'm not going to start prancing around pretending I know everything about OCD, I'm still struggling with it. I know how hard it is. I experienced HOCD like yours for a brief period. It scared the living **** out of me. It was like one day I was my normal self and then the next day I was being wiped away, like a hard drive that has just been formatted. I was attracted to women and never once questioned my sexuality, but then suddenly when I looked at women on TV that I would have previously thought were cute I would feel absolutely nothing. This gave me severe anxiety and led to me testing constantly. I would sometimes test myself by looking at men and I would get groinal responses. I would constantly look at pictures of women to see if I felt anything and it was like it all disappeared. I would imagine scenarios in my head to see what my responses would be, it would push me further down the OCD hole. I know what I'm giving you is reassurance, but trust me this doesn't work man. You need to change how you think. Coming back to this forum doesn't help. You've been here for years. You need to realize that OCD can make you think things, make you feel things and make you feel like you want things. You need to drum it in your head that OCD is a deceitful beast which has an unquenchable hunger for things to fuel your anxiety. It will play on things that you fear/find immoral or go directly against who you are. 

Every single thought you get you need to just let it come and go. It's just at thought, nothing more. You are constantly searching for evidence as to prove these thoughts mean something about you. This is a hard rut to get out of, especially considering you already seem to have collected enough 'evidence' to prove you are gay. It's all nonsense. Ignore it all. Just get on with your day. Thought comes into your head? It's a thought. Carry on with your day. Do something else. Don't actively try to suppress the thoughts, just don't pay attention to it. Do not react to the thoughts. 

Once you have got past this, the next thing which will probably happen is you'll start to get less anxiety from the thoughts of being gay. it may not happen to you, but it definitely happened to me. It basically goes like this; you'll calm down, but then you'll start ruminating on the fact that you are not having anxiety about being gay. 'Is this me accepting I'm gay? Why do I no longer feel anxiety to being gay? I guess this confirms it.' This is just OCD again. You just need to do what I said in the first step.

If you've heard this all before, I'm sorry I couldn't add anything new. I just wanted to try and help. I just wish you the best, it saddens me seeing someone in this state for many years over an obsession. I hope you get better. 

One last piece of advice, I've briefly looked through your older threads so I don't know the whole story but you should really consider listening to @PolarBear. He's given you lots of valuable advice, you need to accept that this is OCD. You need to accept that you can't be 100% certain about everything in life, you just need to be confident in yourself and know that you are straight and you aren't gay. He knows what he is talking about, way more than me. He is much more knowledgeable than me. Someone else who has helped me greatly is @snowbearI'm not sure if she's been in your threads before, but perhaps she can help. 

Edited by TriangleFace2
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100% OCD.

I was miserably in that “circle” for 2 years. Same thoughts, compulsions (checks), anxiety, depression…

Groinal responses are standard “hook” in this OCD and they are just a psychosomatic phenomenon due to extraordinary and repetitive attention to your genital area when exposed to your fears.

”Denial” is another “hook” in this OCD and it is just a misconception from straight people because “denial “ is not for himself/herself but for society. I mean that gays in denial perfectly know what they are and they just hide it to others but not to themselves.

How did I get over this OCD?, accepting it and ignoring it (ignoring the thoughts, ignoring the groinal responses…). If you persist in time with accepting and ignoring you will see how it starts fading and with more time it will disappear completely. Then you will look back in time and you will say to yourself: what a pity of all my wasted time with endless useless compulsions that only bring you more down into the hole.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Tamagochi said:

Then you will look back in time and you will say to yourself: what a pity of all my wasted time with endless useless compulsions that only bring you more down into the hole.

Yes, remember this. This is useful. 
Something that has scared me since learning I have OCD was imagining getting to a very old age and looking back on my life and remembering all the obsessions I had and everything else I've worried about and coming to the realization that it was all rubbish the entire time, and then regretting everything. Regretting that I hadn't fixed it sooner and spent my life shivering in fear over a load of rubbish. This makes me want to change and learn how to deal with OCD. It motivates me. 

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My groinal responses are so instantaneous and strong though.  Its not like I sit looking at a man for 10 seconds and then feel some tingle.  It feels like a surge in my groin.

I can see in some ways it might be ocd. I had a groinal response to a topless man in ICU on a ventilator with covid last week.

But in lots of other ways I think the groinals are 'no this is what sexual desire must feel like' and this is what straight men must feel for women.

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4 hours ago, Eric Dave said:

My groinal responses are so instantaneous and strong though.  Its not like I sit looking at a man for 10 seconds and then feel some tingle.  It feels like a surge in my groin.

I can see in some ways it might be ocd. I had a groinal response to a topless man in ICU on a ventilator with covid last week.

But in lots of other ways I think the groinals are 'no this is what sexual desire must feel like' and this is what straight men must feel for women.

People who truly desire something actually like the thoughts and don't get distressed by the idea. They may get distressed about their social environment though, like they know they are gay and enjoy the thoughts and want them to happen but are heavily distressed because they think or know their family and friends will reject them or think less of them. They don't constantly question themselves 24/7. You need to let it go man, this is OCD. Even now you are performing compulsions. You are in a nasty loop, forget it all. Forget about everything you've thought about up until now. Start from fresh I suppose. Any thought that distresses you just let it be. It's just a thought. A thought about a previous groinal response to a man? 'oh- this must mean I am actually ga-' nope, ignore it. Just go do something else to occupy your mind. 

You need to stop posting here. No matter how much information you get, your head will constantly try and twist information or search for reasons to try and confirm your fears of being gay. 

 

Edited by TriangleFace2
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I know we have a lot of new users here but helpful as the intention is, these are explanations that have been given many, many times for over 6 years.  Eric has to either start to work very hard to implement the self help but preferably to seek advice and treatment via his GP.  Posting on the forum only serves as an aid to maintaining the problem.  :( 

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But logically I can't believe its ocd anymore.  So many bad things happen to me.

Watching tv spikes me constantly.  Going on social media spikes me constantly. 

What happens usually is this:  I se a hot girl and feel nothing.  Like literally nothing.  Then the next time a perfume ad for example JEan Paul GAultier featuring topless men sailors I feel this arousal but its terrifying.

 

Maybe I just cant accept my true sexality??  I dont want to accept it nor get with a guy but why does my body feel aroused at the drop of a hat?  Like I say its so bad now that literally the smallest thing male related sets it off.  Topless man in an ICU bed on a ventilator.  Seeing men in basketball shorts playing basketball.

 

What I am asking is I have lost all belief I am straight but never want to do anything with a guy but I cant stop being fearful of it and getting spiked constantly.  I literally feel helpless to change.  My groin gets this surge of arousal and then the terror hits.

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Sad as it is Eric....(nd I feel desperately sad for you) this endless cycle of the same questions followed by the same reassurances isn't helping.  In my opinion all it does is serve to keep you as stuck as you are.  You are staying firmly stuck because you continue to use this cycle rather than change it.  That's why I keep recommending that you seek professional advice so that someone can work with you on a one to one basis.

It will be very difficult for you to enjoy a meaningful relationship with anyone right now because it isn't a natural, relaxed one.  It's always under minute scrutiny.

Please yo and see your GP and ask to be referred to someone who can help :)

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46 minutes ago, Eric Dave said:

But logically I can't believe its ocd anymore.  So many bad things happen to me.

Illogically, you refuse to accept it's OCD.

'Bad things' don't keep happening :no:  - you interpret 'nothings' as 'somethings' and further interpret those somethings as proof your sexuality is in question.

You'll continue to feel unsure and distressed until you stop misinterpreting every 'nothing' as a 'something'.

You've confused yourself so much over this that you now struggle to see what you're doing. That's why I agree with Caramoole that you need professional help to deal with your OCD.

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I had a horrific night.  I dreamt my late father was encouraging me to have sex with him in which I was sort of resisting but also got aroused and in the dream was going to go ahead with it until I woke up aroused.

Am I latching on to ocd as a means of not accepting who I am?  I am sorry for posting but really distressed.

 

 

 

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We cannot prove something that, by definition, requires our conscious ignorance of it. It’s impossible! What does that mean for HOCD sufferers? It means that ultimately there is no way to definitively prove that people with HOCD are not in denial about being gay. This means that the only sensible strategy for those with Ocd is to accept that the certainty they seek is just not possible.

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The tingling You are feeling in Your chest and groin is not arousal it may feel like it, but this is OCD common trick it may feel pleasurable in Your body but this doesn’t mean You like your thoughts or what are You seeing that is causing this feeling. The more You are trying to feel attraction to woman, ocd will block this feeling I had this happen to me as well. Well the erection You get it may be just a random blood flow while sleeping or more You are affraid of having one then You might get one this is how OCD works. Any sexual thought or dream may cause physical arousal, primitive part of the brain doesn’t care who is in this dream it just cares that the dream is sexual in nature

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1 hour ago, ThomasOCD said:

The tingling You are feeling in Your chest and groin is not arousal it may feel like it, but this is OCD common trick it may feel pleasurable in Your body but this doesn’t mean You like your thoughts or what are You seeing that is causing this feeling. The more You are trying to feel attraction to woman, ocd will block this feeling I had this happen to me as well. Well the erection You get it may be just a random blood flow while sleeping or more You are affraid of having one then You might get one this is how OCD works. Any sexual thought or dream may cause physical arousal, primitive part of the brain doesn’t care who is in this dream it just cares that the dream is sexual in nature

The thing is when I see men on tv or social media it causes a groinal response.  When I am asleep in the morning and images of men pop into my dream it actually causes arousal.

I had a horrible dream that my father who is now dead was instigating sex with me and I got aroused :(

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You went so deep into your obsession that you are no able anymore to make difference between sexual arousal and groinal response.

Show your posts to a real gay and ask him if there is something in your posts that looks like what he experiences or experienced. I am convinced that his answer would be a clear “no” because you are all the time describing about “groinal responses” but you are not talking about the most important: finding someone attractive of your same sex to build a life close to him or enjoying your freedom with same sex…” 

Homosexuals are as heterosexuals: they want to find a real good partner and they want to enjoy their sexual orientation as much and as good as possible. But you are just talking about your own “checks” and unwanted sensations that make you concern, anxious and depressed.


Sorry but what you write down about has nothing to do about your orientation but your obsession feed by your own fears.
It seems that you are still far from understanding this because your obsession has convinced you of what you fear the most, which is very common in OCD. 
My suggestion is: get distance from your compulsions, because nobody needs compulsions (checks…) to realise which sexual orientation they are. Live your life as you wish and not as your “groinal responses” dictate.

“Groinal responses” are just a consequence of your excessive attention and worry to some part of your body when exposed to your fears. They are just a psychosomatic reaction.

I give you another example of psychosomatic reaction that I experienced myself: back in the days I got obsessed that I caught hepatitis B after some sexual encounter with an stranger, many checks in internet about hepatitis and my knowledge of non being vaccinated with hepatitis B vaccine. My obsession got so far that I went to Dr several times to make different blood tests. Dr assured me that I have no hepatitis B for sure but I kept insisting because I developed a discomfort and even sometimes a pain in my liver. But then the Dr told me: “look, it is impossible that you have pain in your liver because there is no nervous system in the liver, even the patients with worst liver failure or disease never report any kind of discomfort in the liver”. That Dr wrote down in his last medical report about my case: “Patient with healthy liver but obsessed with psychosomatic symptoms, Psychologist visit is due”.

I also experienced the obsession you are having now and the same groinal responses with the same checks or compulsions, also nightmares… and that OCD also made me believe that I was gay in denial…after two years with that obsession I managed finally to get distance from it, just ignoring those fake feelings and thoughts, then  with progressively those groinal responses disappeared completely, as well those thoughts… my attraction for the opposite sex came back as it always was: again I want to **** around all nice women I meet, see and imagine…as it always was but you know what it is also very interesting: when I feel the attraction for women I do not have “groinal responses” and I do not have anxiety and I do not feel depressed but the opposite: I feel integrated with myself, I enjoy the views of their bodies and I enjoy when I have the luck to get in contact with them…but nothing similar to the fake reality you are experiencing now.

Again, the key is IGNORING ALL FAKE THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, don’t give them importance because they are just the result of your excessive worry and obsession. In other words, get away from all your compulsions.

I hope it helped.

In health.

 

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Hi Eric,

 

My name is Cameron, I hope you don't mind me sending you a message. I feel that we are both in a similar situation and that we may be able to help eachother.

 

I have read your most recent post, I can relate to pretty much everything your going through. However I don't get groinal responses I just have my mind tell me "he was attractive you wanna be with man" I now look at women who I use to find attractive but they don't seem to interest me any more and my sex drive has gone down alot, as when I have sex with my girlfriend my mind tells me that I want to be doing this with a man.

 

I always seen to find myself in a spiral whenever I see a guy and I assume they are gay my mind tell me to go there. It's horrible. I've tried with a guy and it was pleasure but didn't feel right to me and I don't wanna do it again but it's horrible.

 

If you don't wanna talk I understand, if you do that also okay.

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11 hours ago, Coolcam said:

Hi Eric,

 

My name is Cameron, I hope you don't mind me sending you a message. I feel that we are both in a similar situation and that we may be able to help eachother.

 

I have read your most recent post, I can relate to pretty much everything your going through. However I don't get groinal responses I just have my mind tell me "he was attractive you wanna be with man" I now look at women who I use to find attractive but they don't seem to interest me any more and my sex drive has gone down alot, as when I have sex with my girlfriend my mind tells me that I want to be doing this with a man.

 

I always seen to find myself in a spiral whenever I see a guy and I assume they are gay my mind tell me to go there. It's horrible. I've tried with a guy and it was pleasure but didn't feel right to me and I don't wanna do it again but it's horrible.

 

If you don't wanna talk I understand, if you do that also okay.

Can we please keep the discussion on the forum?  Also be very careful that you don't simply end up "ruminating together" about the experience and the problem.  We're looking for a way forward.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am friends with a girl who has HOCD and we chat.  She recently started therapy.  She says its not going well at all and that the therapist implied she is going through a sexual identity crisis.  She said she doesnt need to figure it out.  She has been feeling worse and worse after each session.

This is why I wont dare seek help.

 

Things for me have gotten worse and worse.  Things that used to reassure me like my reactions to women in sexy photos or in person would calm me down.  Now women have ZERO effect.

MEn are giving me groinals constantly every day.  Looking at the internet or social media causes me groinal arousal constantly and my depression gets worse.

I used to get wet dreams about women.  Now every night I am having some sort of homo erotic dream and wake up with a semi.  I never seem to get arousing sexual dreams with girls anymore.

I have a girlfriend now and am thinking of breaking up.  I really like her as a person but I am really scared the sexual excitement is not there.  I used to get very turned on kissing girls.  Now its boring and numb.  And then there are groinals.  We could be watchign a film and a guy shirtless pops up and I get a groinal and my anxiety spikes and I go quiet an she asks me whats the matter.

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27 minutes ago, Eric Dave said:

She says its not going well at all and that the therapist implied she is going through a sexual identity crisis.  She said she doesnt need to figure it out.  She has been feeling worse and worse after each session.

This is why I wont dare seek help.

I'm not saying this isn't a possibility, a therapist could indeed interpret your or her thoughts as a sexual identity crisis but I don't believe this is the case.  If you go and seek help, you might just turn your life around Eric. Wouldn't you want that? Wouldn't you want to be happy and not worrying 24/7? 

Listen, if you go to a therapist two things could happen. 1. you go to them, you start working on your OCD and your life gets better. Fantastic. 2. you could go to them, they completely misunderstand your obsessions and suggest something that you fear happening (that you might be gay). All you have to do is just not go to this therapist anymore and look for a new one. That's it. 

 

Also, I know this isn't going to help, you've been here for years but just to know you aren't alone; I went through the same exact thing as you Eric, I was going through a time where I would look at women who I previously thought looked cute and I would feel absolutely nothing. I feared I was actually gay, but this passed because I clearly don't find it as fearful as you do. The more you fear the obsession and the more you feed it the more power it has over you. 

Edited by TriangleFace2
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39 minutes ago, TriangleFace2 said:

I'm not saying this isn't a possibility, a therapist could indeed interpret your or her thoughts as a sexual identity crisis but I don't believe this is the case.  If you go and seek help, you might just turn your life around Eric. Wouldn't you want that? Wouldn't you want to be happy and not worrying 24/7? 

Listen, if you go to a therapist two things could happen. 1. you go to them, you start working on your OCD and your life gets better. Fantastic. 2. you could go to them, they completely misunderstand your obsessions and suggest something that you fear happening (that you might be gay). All you have to do is just not go to this therapist anymore and look for a new one. That's it. 

 

Also, I know this isn't going to help, you've been here for years but just to know you aren't alone; I went through the same exact thing as you Eric, I was going through a time where I would look at women who I previously thought looked cute and I would feel absolutely nothing. I feared I was actually gay, but this passed because I clearly don't find it as fearful as you do. The more you fear the obsession and the more you feed it the more power it has over you. 

I've had it since 2007.  I'm 40 now.    I got a virus when I was 19 and for some reason it stopped me getting proper erections ever since.  That was the start of my problems.  I still cant get proper erections like I used to.  I need tablets.  I get a sort of soft erection even with tablets like a saggy balloon.  My penis feels sort of numb to touch.  Cant feel much sensation stroking it for example.  Sex or oral sex I can barely feel anything down there. 

 

Anyway I cant get properly hard for men (at least trying to test masturbating to them).  I keep wondering if I was with a guy would it work again.

The groinals kill me.  I feel as if the person I was (or thought I was anyway) is dead and I have evolved into a gay version.   I have a gay finger ratio also.  I think I must have been born gay and never consciously realised.

I tried therapy in 2009-2012.  Ddnt really do much tbh.  I did ERP, ERP, ERP.  Didnt have any effect.

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