Help it’s happening again

[Ma29]

3 hours ago, snowbear said:

Thoughts, feelings, urges, movements, twitches... all the same.

Why? Because it's not the thought/urge/twitch/movement that is important. It's that you respond the same way each time. 

Also, everytrhing feels like a genuine question, and while you're learning we'll try to answer your questions in a way that teaches you about OCD. But you should be aware that the motivation behind the 'genuine' question was seeking reassurance! People often say OCD is sneaky. What they mean is when you're thinking with your OCD head on you can convince yourself black is white if you 'feel' it will bring some relief from the anxiety.

Remember, it's a thinking disorder. You're not thinking rationally when you have your OCD head on, so it's easy to deceive yourself and label a compulsion as 'geunine interest',  however unintentionally.

Trust us on this. We've been around the block many times before!

Thank you for that - that’s helpful. I’ll try to be more mindful of this in the future ! 
 

I am struggling to understand how feelings can be intrusive though (I’m not being sneaky here). I guess because it’s a feeling? For example - if I ‘feel’ like I like the idea of something that usually I would not and then I feel guilty and feel bad for it and it causes anxiety - is that how I identify it’s ocd?   Is this a trick too that ocd is playing? It’s all confusing. How can this relate to the context of someone with the type of ocd I have - can someone give me an example please so that I can understand it better? 

[Caramoole]

Because it's an intrusive thought.  A thought about a situation that distresses you, that is opposite to how you really feel. Even though you talk about a "feeling", a feeling only has any power when you then apply a thought or assessment to it.

Thoughts, feelings, sensations, movements etc etc you can safely label them ALL as part of the same OCD problem

[snowbear]

34 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

I am struggling to understand how feelings can be intrusive though

  I don't know where you get this idea of 'intrusive feelings'.

OCD isn't about 'intrusive' things.

It's OCD because of your response to a thought or feeling. Your obsession with the thoughts / feelings, your interpretation that they must mean something (they don't)  and the compulsions you do to reduce the distress believing this meaning creates in you.

 

34 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

For example - if I ‘feel’ like I like the idea of something that usually I would not and then I feel guilty and feel bad for it and it causes anxiety - is that how I identify it’s ocd?

Ok, let's try an example.

You get thought that you've done something, or experienced a feeling in a way that goes against your values.

Instead of dismissing this as a silly thought you treat it as meaningful. (I had the thought/ feeling and because it goes against my morals therefore it must mean...)

You interpret the thought/ feeling. You decide what you think it means and you act accordingly.

 

Someone thinking normally is able to 'stand outside themselves' as the thought/ feeling happens and realise there's nothing going on that needs action.

...Oh look,  I had a silly thought that goes against my moral values > so what? Having a thought I dislike means nothing (it's just a random thought/ enjoyable feeling that doesn't define me in any way) >  carry on as normal.

So the normal response is:

notice the thought/ feeling > shrug it off as meaningless > dismiss it and get on with what they were doing when it happened.

 

 

But you're immediately totally immersed in the details of the thought/ feeling. You focus on the what and why so much that you never stand back and think 'what nonsense!'

Your response is notice it > interpret it (decide what it means) > do compulsions

... I enjoyed that feeling! OMG! What does that mean? Am I a bad person? Did I do wrong? Did it...? What if...?

The result is you're off like a racehorse out of the starting box, brain whirring with questions about what it says about you, what it means, thought layered upon thought, analysing how you felt and what that means... ruminating, revisiting it in your mind, taking (un)necessary precautions, avoiding, and a million other compulsions all designed to prove it doesn't mean whatever you decided it must mean in that first fearful, shocked response to noticing the thought/ feeling.

And all the while it means nothing at all. Only you're so deeply immersed in your whirring thoughts you never 'step outside yourself' to see it was just a meaningless thought/ feeling and it's ok to carry on as normal without reacting at all to it being there.

 

[Saffron37]

1 hour ago, Ma29 said:

I am struggling to understand how feelings can be intrusive though (I’m not being sneaky here). I guess because it’s a feeling? For example - if I ‘feel’ like I like the idea of something that usually I would not and then I feel guilty and feel bad for it and it causes anxiety - is that how I identify it’s ocd?

Every person on Earth has fleeting thoughts that may "go against" their values--it's totally normal, because our brain is chattering away all the time and constantly processing information and ideas. People without OCD don't even notice those thoughts, or dismiss them as being unimportant. For example, I've at times had fleeting thoughts about what my brother is like sexually--not because I have any interest in him or in incest, but simply because when you hang around someone long enough you'll wonder about that part of their life. My OCD does not revolve around worries about sexual deviance, however, so when I had that thought I barely even noticed it. I actually found it kind of funny, the fact that my brain had even gone there!

You, however, have OCD surrounding sexual deviance. So, if you had a thought similar to the one I just described, you would assign a huge amount of importance and meaning to it. You would become intensely anxious, wondering if you possibly could like that thought, what does it mean, why would you even think it? That's the OCD, right there. Then, the more you think about it and worry about it and try to avoid another such thought, the more you're teaching your brain that those nonsense thoughts have importance, and so reinforcing the pattern that creates the OCD. That's what Snowbear means when she says that the problem is how we respond to the thoughts and feelings, not the thoughts and feelings themselves.

OCD is a disease of doubt. I think what you're calling "intrusive feelings" is really just the intense anxiety and doubt you feel when wondering if you might actually [insert fear here]. It makes no sense, which makes it even more upsetting, right? You probably can't understand why you feel so certain that you are horrible when your logical brain understands that it is all nonsense. The answer, now and always, is that it is a mental disorder called OCD. 

[Ma29]

11 hours ago, Saffron37 said:

Every person on Earth has fleeting thoughts that may "go against" their values--it's totally normal, because our brain is chattering away all the time and constantly processing information and ideas. People without OCD don't even notice those thoughts, or dismiss them as being unimportant. For example, I've at times had fleeting thoughts about what my brother is like sexually--not because I have any interest in him or in incest, but simply because when you hang around someone long enough you'll wonder about that part of their life. My OCD does not revolve around worries about sexual deviance, however, so when I had that thought I barely even noticed it. I actually found it kind of funny, the fact that my brain had even gone there!

You, however, have OCD surrounding sexual deviance. So, if you had a thought similar to the one I just described, you would assign a huge amount of importance and meaning to it. You would become intensely anxious, wondering if you possibly could like that thought, what does it mean, why would you even think it? That's the OCD, right there. Then, the more you think about it and worry about it and try to avoid another such thought, the more you're teaching your brain that those nonsense thoughts have importance, and so reinforcing the pattern that creates the OCD. That's what Snowbear means when she says that the problem is how we respond to the thoughts and feelings, not the thoughts and feelings themselves.

OCD is a disease of doubt. I think what you're calling "intrusive feelings" is really just the intense anxiety and doubt you feel when wondering if you might actually [insert fear here]. It makes no sense, which makes it even more upsetting, right? You probably can't understand why you feel so certain that you are horrible when your logical brain understands that it is all nonsense. The answer, now and always, is that it is a mental disorder called OCD. 

Thanks Saffron. Makes sense. It does, just hard to put into perspective at times.

[Ma29]

Even just now - despite my hip moving saga I tried to hold the baby and I did until I got to anxious about my hips or groin moving and the more I focused on those two areas the more I feel a tingle or a sensation. Anyway I asked my husband to take the baby of me and in the process baby’s bottom touched my hand - I tried to move my hand away from baby’s bottom when I noticed, it was making me feel really uncomfortable but now I’m thinking oh no what if I moved it into his bottom instead of away and what if I purposely touched bottom and can’t remember and why can’t I remember and what if what if what if - now I feel awful. I didn’t see any re assurance from anyone at the time Nu saying is my hand okay here and now I feel worse because if I had the anxiety wouldn’t be there.

[Caramoole]

Why is this any different from yesterday?  It isn't......and the explanation is the same.  You have to start working on those feelings of anxiety and ride through them, despite them without doing the compulsion

[Ma29]

It’s the same but the anxiety is worse.

I can’t deal with it anymore - I just can’t. My beautiful baby is there on the playing mat and I can’t look him in the eyes. I’m in bed crying. What kind of life is this. 

All the what ifs - but what if you purposely touched his bottom?

I don’t think I did or would have with bad intention (definitely wouldn’t with bad intention) but I can’t fully remember exactly what happened. I wish I had asked someone at the time whether my hands ok there or even paid more attention. I don’t remember anything - apart from feeling anxious and uncomfortable and it is killing me. By touch it was just a light touch which probably happened because he was wriggling / husband was transferring him of me ect ect. I wouldn’t  do anything with bad intention like that but what if my anxiety got to me and I accidentally did touch his bottom. I’m so scared. I’m so scared. 

[Ma29]

How am I supposed to continue doing things with the baby when these thoughts are so powerful? 
I have to hold a baby but how am I supposed to hold him when my mind starts saying ‘what if you did this and what if you did that’ and then I have no proof that I definitely did not? 
I am sitting here upstairs in bed away from my baby and crying because my hand touched his bottom whilst he was transferring to his dad and I just can’t remember what happened after - I’m sure I moved my hand away when it happened but what if I moved my hand towards it instead ? I can’t cope with this. 

[Ma29]

Please can someone help me I’m so scared.

What if I moved my hand towards baby’s bottom in a state of panic or wasn’t thinking straight - that’s the only thing I can think of as I know I wouldn’t have done it with a bad intention . I’m so so scared. 

[Saffron37]

Ma, I'm so sorry, but what you are thinking of "help" is reassurance-seeking, which will 100% make this worse. The only way--I repeat, the only way--for you to get better from this is to refrain from doing the compulsions that have been occupying your time since this latest trigger. The reason you're feeling worse and worse is that you're continuing to perform compulsions. I'm so sorry, I wish it was different and that one of us could take the pain away from you, but the reality is that your brain is under your conscious control, and only you can make those changes.

I think you might benefit from some reading to learn more about how OCD works in your brain. You mentioned that you bought a copy of Brain Lock, have you taken a look?