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25 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Stop thinking (ruminating).  I know it's difficult but do something else.  Read Brainlock, watch a film, go for a run but try and do something.  It's important :)

Caramoole, I did watch my favourite series, made some tea and had something to eat. But I couldn't stop feeling awful or ruminating even when I was doing those activities. My head won't stop bringing up more and more memories of the past "incidents". 

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1 minute ago, Cora said:

Caramoole, I did watch my favourite series, made some tea and had something to eat. But I couldn't stop feeling awful or ruminating even when I was doing those activities. My head won't stop bringing up more and more memories of the past "incidents". 

First off, good on you for doing some distractions! That's awesome! Now, try to differentiate between "feeling awful" and "ruminating." My suspicion is that because you were feeling awful, you felt like you had no choice but to ruminate, go over the memories, etc, etc--but the amazing truth is that rumination is a choice. It does not feel like one, believe me, I understand, but it is. Try to look at the "feeling awful" part of the equation as something that's just gonna hang around for a while, but doesn't actually mean anything beyond your OCD pulling its tricks. If you can sit with the feeling awful without ruminating--and it might take a while, and it takes practice, and that's okay--things will definitely improve. 

@PolarBear has a great video about stopping ruminating. Can someone point us in its direction?

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1 hour ago, Saffron37 said:

First off, good on you for doing some distractions! That's awesome! Now, try to differentiate between "feeling awful" and "ruminating." My suspicion is that because you were feeling awful, you felt like you had no choice but to ruminate, go over the memories, etc, etc--but the amazing truth is that rumination is a choice. It does not feel like one, believe me, I understand, but it is. Try to look at the "feeling awful" part of the equation as something that's just gonna hang around for a while, but doesn't actually mean anything beyond your OCD pulling its tricks. If you can sit with the feeling awful without ruminating--and it might take a while, and it takes practice, and that's okay--things will definitely improve. 

@PolarBear has a great video about stopping ruminating. Can someone point us in its direction?

 

1 hour ago, Caramoole said:

Thank you, Saffron and Caramoole. 

I've just watched the video. I think it presents a clear and concise explanation of what ruminating is, and it made me understand that I have a major problem with allowing myself to stop ruminating. And after so many years of explanations and advice, I still don't know why.

Maybe it's because some things that I've done and thought are more peculiar and disgusting than others. So even if I get to move on from the little and less disturbing events, the bigger ones are always there, stored carefully somewhere in my mind where I know I can always access them.

Also, maybe it's because there are so damn many of them. For the past three and a bit years, since I've joined the forums, I haven't seen anyone else to struggle with as many "incidents" as I have. I've been told many times that I have to treat them all as part of the same problem which is OCD. But, and you have to believe me, I can't do it. I don't know why but I can't do it. In my mind, some things are too horrible to be put in the same basket as all the other ones. 

I'm sorry for rambling so much. I'm not sure how to help myself. And yes, I want someone to come and hold me and reassure me, but I know how damaging that is. 

Edited by Cora
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2 minutes ago, Cora said:

 

Thank you, Saffron and Caramoole. 

I've just watched the video. I think it's presents a clear and concise explanation of what ruminating is, and it made me understand that I have a major problem with allowing myself to stop ruminating. And after so many years of explanations and advice, I still don't know why.

Maybe it's because some things that I've done and thought are more peculiar and disgusting than others. So even if I get to move on from the little and less disturbing events, the bigger ones are always there, stored carefully somewhere in my mind where I know I can always access them.

Also, maybe it's because there are so damn many of them. For the past three and a bit years, since I've joined the forums, I haven't seen anyone else to struggle with as many "incidents" as I have. I've been told many times that I have to treat them all as part of the same problem which is OCD. But, and you have to believe me, I can't do it. I don't know why but I can't do it. In my mind, some things are too horrible to be put in the same basket as all the other ones. 

I'm sorry for rambling so much. I'm not sure how to help myself. And yes, I want someone to come and hold me and reassure me, but I know how damaging that is. 

I think you can't let them go because you don't have the experience and practice yet. You have started working on your problems very recently and this will take time and repeated effort.

I understand, my problems may be different from yours but it is incredibly hard to let go. I keep thinking to myself that this worry is too big to let go, that it's dangerous to let go and that I have to solve it before I can start moving on. It doesn't happen for every worry, but some are hard to let go. Even after many years of working on myself it is still a challenge. I'm at a stage where I'm really trying to let go of something regardless of how real or imminent it seems and it's torture at first.

Also there are other people who decribe "incidents", I'm pretty sure you have even responded to some of these people. But they are not you, so you can view their incidents objectively and you don't think they are bad, even though to the person describing them it seems like the end of the world. The same applies to your incidents, I honestly see them as nonsense, like sometimes when you talk about some terrible thing you have done I literally roll my eyes (sorry!) and think "is this it!?". Like the things you describe are so meaningless to an outsider, but to you they carry so much meaning. So keep that in mind, it's all about perspective.

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25 minutes ago, malina said:

The same applies to your incidents, I honestly see them as nonsense, like sometimes when you talk about some terrible thing you have done I literally roll my eyes (sorry!) and think "is this it!?". Like the things you describe are so meaningless to an outsider, but to you they carry so much meaning. So keep that in mind, it's all about perspective.

I agree.  It's difficult to see when you're the one having the worry but to someone standing on the outside the things you describe "seem" so minor.  I know it's not to you.

But if you watch the video you have to understand the difference between the thought/doubt itself and the act of ruminating.  The thought (or number of imagined incidenrs) doesn't really matter, we're working on stopping the rumination process itself to all thoughts

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Thank you very much, malina. And I'm really sorry that you're still struggling with this. 

1 hour ago, malina said:

I think you can't let them go because you don't have the experience and practice yet. You have started working on your problems very recently and this will take time and repeated effort.

Maybe you're right. But I was thinking, what if I can't let them go because I'm doing the wrong thing? What if I'm supposed to accept them for what they really are - mistakes - and forgive myself? I know we discussed this before but maybe by accepting that those things/incidents/moments/whatever you want to call them were actually mistakes and by forgiving myself, I should get better? Of course, I don't want to tell myself that I made those mistakes because of how awful they are, and it's more comforting to say it's OCD, but what if I'm just lying to myself? 

I think I'm stuck in a cycle. It's horrible. 

Edited by Cora
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44 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

I agree.  It's difficult to see when you're the one having the worry but to someone standing on the outside the things you describe "seem" so minor.  I know it's not to you.

But if you watch the video you have to understand the difference between the thought/doubt itself and the act of ruminating.  The thought (or number of imagined incidenrs) doesn't really matter, we're working on stopping the rumination process itself to all thoughts

Thank you, Caramoole. 

Yes, I agree, they definitely don't seem minor to me. 

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12 minutes ago, Cora said:

Thank you very much, malina. And I'm really sorry that you're still struggling with this. 

Maybe you're right. But I was thinking, what if I can't let them go because I'm doing the wrong thing? What if I'm supposed to accept them for what they really are - mistakes - and forgive myself? I know we discussed this before but maybe by accepting that those things/incidents/moments/whatever you want to call them were actually mistakes and by forgiving myself, will help me? Of course, I don't want to tell myself that I made those mistakes, it's more comforting to say it's OCD but what if I'm just lying to myself? 

I think I'm stuck in a cycle. It's horrible. 

I don't really know Cora. Maybe someone else can jump in, but I think that approaching these incidents as mistakes that you forgive yourself for is a bit of a cop out that won't help in the long run. It's kind of the easy way out to agree with the OCD and say that it was a mistake. I told you what I think, all the incidents you describe are so minor and nonsensical and if you choose to treat them as mistakes, you will never force yourself to see the reality of the situation. You will always exaggerate trivial things and then think you need forgiveness. That will only keep you stuck.

"maybe by accepting that those things/incidents/moments/whatever you want to call them were actually mistakes and by forgiving myself, will help me?"

See, I believe the above would be a compulsion. An easy fix to give you temporary relief just like confessing and reassurance seeking do.

I think you need to do the hard work here, listen to all the advice you have been given and work on treating these incidents as OCD. It's the harder route because of the anxiety that you feel and will take a great deal of work, but I think this is the way you will see results.

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1 minute ago, malina said:

I don't really know Cora. Maybe someone else can jump in, but I think that approaching these incidents as mistakes that you forgive yourself for is a bit of a cop out that won't help in the long run. It's kind of the easy way out to agree with the OCD and say that it was a mistake. I told you what I think, all the incidents you describe are so minor and nonsensical and if you choose to treat them as mistakes, you will never force yourself to see the reality of the situation. You will always exaggerate trivial things and then think you need forgiveness. That will only keep you stuck.

"maybe by accepting that those things/incidents/moments/whatever you want to call them were actually mistakes and by forgiving myself, will help me?"

See, I believe the above would be a compulsion. An easy fix to give you temporary relief just like confessing and reassurance seeking do.

I think you need to do the hard work here, listen to all the advice you have been given and work on treating these incidents as OCD. It's the harder route because of the anxiety that you feel and will take a great deal of work, but I think this is the way you will see results.

Thank you, malina. 

I'm not really sure what to say. I feel so desperate at the moment that any idea that pops into my mind seems logical. But, of course, I think that what you are saying makes much, much more sense. It's just this nagging voice keeps telling me "no, don't listen to them, what you did was disgusting, they were terrible mistakes, you monster!" And then it's hard to listen to all the great advice that I've been given having that constant voice. 

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4 minutes ago, Cora said:

t's just this nagging voice keeps telling me "no, don't listen to them, what you did was disgusting, they were terrible mistakes, you monster!"

That's mental illness talking. Think of all the other people, with both OCD and other conditions, who have mental illness. It can make you believe some really unrealistic things. Each person feels these to be true and gets some feedback (that makes sense only to them usually) to confirm their beliefs. It's the fight of every single person with a mental health condition to stop listening to that internal voice that is trying to drag them back into their altered reality.

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Just now, Cora said:

 

I'm not really sure what to say. I feel so desperate at the moment that any idea that pops into my mind seems logical. But, of course, I think that what you are saying makes much, much more sense. It's just this nagging voice keeps telling me "no, don't listen to them, what you did was disgusting, they were terrible mistakes, you monster!" And then it's hard to listen to all the great advice that I've been given having that constant voice. 

It's really tough, isn't it? I read one anecdote in Brain Lock that described a woman who was obsessed with the idea that she had left appliances on before going to work, and it got to the point where she could literally be holding the unplugged appliance in her hand, staring at it, and still feel the sense that maybe it still was on. That's the power of the distortion of OCD!

If it helps, just keep in mind that every OCD sufferer essentially has to confront the same dilemma you are--that the OCD makes no sense but feels so remarkably true that it's difficult to believe otherwise. The good news is that the more you try to view your thoughts objectively (like the "Wise Counselor" and "Impartial Observer" discussed in Brain Lock), the less that distortion will affect you and the more that you will be able to see and feel the truth of things. Like others have said on here, you have to take the leap of faith that although you still feel that your OCD-related thoughts and feelings are true, you know that they are not as so will act accordingly. 

You can do it!!

 

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24 minutes ago, malina said:

I don't really know Cora. Maybe someone else can jump in, but I think that approaching these incidents as mistakes that you forgive yourself for is a bit of a cop out that won't help in the long run. It's kind of the easy way out to agree with the OCD and say that it was a mistake. I told you what I think, all the incidents you describe are so minor and nonsensical and if you choose to treat them as mistakes, you will never force yourself to see the reality of the situation. You will always exaggerate trivial things and then think you need forgiveness. That will only keep you stuck.

"maybe by accepting that those things/incidents/moments/whatever you want to call them were actually mistakes and by forgiving myself, will help me?"

See, I believe the above would be a compulsion. An easy fix to give you temporary relief just like confessing and reassurance seeking do.

I think you need to do the hard work here, listen to all the advice you have been given and work on treating these incidents as OCD. It's the harder route because of the anxiety that you feel and will take a great deal of work, but I think this is the way you will see results.

I agree with Malina on this.

The other thing you're still doing is waiting to find something, to read something that will make you feel that safe/innocent and then you'll be able to move on.  It rarely happens otherwise we wouldn't be here dealing with OCD.  You'd simply say "That was a stupid thought" and move on.  If you keep faith and work rigorously & progressively you will get to a point where you do move past the obsession and can then look back and think "How could I ever be convinced by such a ridiculous thought?"

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Thank you so very much, malina, Saffron and Caramoole. 

I'll be honest. Right now, in this very specific moment, I'm struggling to understand how my thinking is distorted. And by that I don't mean that I think I'm right and everyone else is wrong - of course not! What I mean is that is seems impossible to see what other people see. Like, I can't understand how people don't think I did something wrong by enjoying (physically more than emotionally) reading an article about a child being abused. Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone but I just can't understand it. And that is so scary! 

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48 minutes ago, Cora said:

Thank you so very much, malina, Saffron and Caramoole. 

I'll be honest. Right now, in this very specific moment, I'm struggling to understand how my thinking is distorted. And by that I don't mean that I think I'm right and everyone else is wrong - of course not! What I mean is that is seems impossible to see what other people see. Like, I can't understand how people don't think I did something wrong by enjoying (physically more than emotionally) reading an article about a child being abused. Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone but I just can't understand it. And that is so scary! 

I think what you need to do is stop trying to understand it, I think you are waiting for all of this information to click and for you to believe everything we are saying. I think what everyone is telling you is that this will not happen on its own. You have to start by modifying your behaviour first, you need to behave as if what we are all saying is true (even if your mind is screaming at you that it's wrong). When you get enough practice in behaving that way, your thoughts will start changing. This isn't easy, it's really hard because you have to ignore your own powerful thoughts and feelings, but through practice you can do it.

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Just now, malina said:

I think what you need to do is stop trying to understand it, I think you are waiting for all of this information to click and for you to believe everything we are saying. I think what everyone is telling you is that this will not happen on its own. You have to start by modifying your behaviour first, you need to behave as if what we are all saying is true (even if your mind is screaming at you that it's wrong). When you get enough practice in behaving that way, your thoughts will start changing. This isn't easy, it's really hard because you have to ignore your own powerful thoughts and feelings, but through practice you can do it.

Okay, that makes sense. Thank you, malina. 

The past few days have been awful but tomorrow I get up, go to uni, do my studying and try my best to ignore the annoying voices that tell me I'm a monster and have to ruminate on my past. 

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1 hour ago, Cora said:

Thank you so very much, malina, Saffron and Caramoole. 

I'll be honest. Right now, in this very specific moment, I'm struggling to understand how my thinking is distorted. And by that I don't mean that I think I'm right and everyone else is wrong - of course not! What I mean is that is seems impossible to see what other people see. Like, I can't understand how people don't think I did something wrong by enjoying (physically more than emotionally) reading an article about a child being abused. Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone but I just can't understand it. And that is so scary! 

You trying to understand it is yet another compulsion. You need to see that. When we say we want you to leave the thoughts alone, we mean completely alone. Don't ruminate on ANY aspect of the thoughts.

And no, you don't have to understand.  You just have to do. 

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I tried my best but I'm feeling way too disgusted and ashamed.

This morning, while getting ready for uni, something that I'm so afraid of happened once again. I'm not going to say what because that would be confessing but it was incredibly gross. And I've tried to not ruminate. The past four hours I tried my best to focus on my work. I sat with my colleagues and behaved like everything was normal. I even had a drink and a snack. I laughed and had normal conversations. But the anxiety is still the same - nothing's changed since 10 am. I keep thinking that everyone around me is so normal and they wouldn't ever dare to think and do things that I do. 

I also tried to use the advice given when I struggled with the same thing before but, of course, this time it feels different.

I know it's pointless to post this and I also know it's pointless to say it's pointless... but I feel so disgusted and ashamed. 

Edited by Cora
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3 hours ago, Cora said:

I feel so disgusted and ashamed. 

Duely noted. In fact you said it twice in this single post. :dry:

Then on Nolightleft's thread you pointed out to him that calling himself disgusting was something he had to stop. So why do you still do it to yourself?!!

Remember you feel disgusting because you tell yourself you are disgusting.

And talking to yourself that way is a compulsion, designed to make yourself feel bad because you tell yourself you ought to feel bad.

It's all about that inner dialogue and the conversations you have with yourself 24/7.  Until you change that you'll stay stuck.

You can (and you're allowed to!) replace the negative self talk with positive self talk.

For example:

I'm a good person because I'm letting go of my OCD worries about inappropriate behaviour! (The opposite of what you tell yourself now, that not to let things go makes you good.)

I'm a good person with a life outside of my OCD, uni, friends, a career ahead of me...

Give it a go. Get that self-talk onto something lerss boring and repetitive than telling yourself you're disgusting.

 

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3 hours ago, snowbear said:

Duely noted. In fact you said it twice in this single post. :dry:

Then on Nolightleft's thread you pointed out to him that calling himself disgusting was something he had to stop. So why do you still do it to yourself?!!

Remember you feel disgusting because you tell yourself you are disgusting.

And talking to yourself that way is a compulsion, designed to make yourself feel bad because you tell yourself you ought to feel bad.

It's all about that inner dialogue and the conversations you have with yourself 24/7.  Until you change that you'll stay stuck.

You can (and you're allowed to!) replace the negative self talk with positive self talk.

For example:

I'm a good person because I'm letting go of my OCD worries about inappropriate behaviour! (The opposite of what you tell yourself now, that not to let things go makes you good.)

I'm a good person with a life outside of my OCD, uni, friends, a career ahead of me...

Give it a go. Get that self-talk onto something lerss boring and repetitive than telling yourself you're disgusting.

 

Thanks, snowbear.

Yes, I agree, I was being hypocritical when I replied to nolightleft but that doesn't mean that I lied when I said he is not disgusting. It's much easier to think and tell someone that they're not disgusting or bad or evil than telling myself. 

Edited by Cora
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1 hour ago, Cora said:

Thanks, snowbear.

Yes, I agree, I was being hypocritical when I replied to nolightleft but that doesn't mean that I lied when I said he is not disgusting. It's much easier to think and tell someone that they're not disgusting or bad or evil than telling myself. 

But what's the lie here? Is it to yourself then when you accuse yourself of being disgusting for having intrusive thoughts?

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12 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

But what's the lie here? Is it to yourself then when you accuse yourself of being disgusting for having intrusive thoughts?

Maybe. But I also think it's mainly for thinking that I did something bad even though I (probably) didn't - I'm trying really hard to change the way I think. 

Edited by Cora
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7 minutes ago, Cora said:

But I also think it's mainly for thinking that I did something bad even though I (probably) didn't -

Just realised that these are also intrusive thoughts. I'm used to thinking of them separately and it will take me some time to change that. I'm sorry! 

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You don't need to be sorry.....just as long as you're going in the right direction and challenging that faulty, OCD thinking pattern.  I know it's not easy Cora but that's why I, Snowbear, Polar Bear and the others will challenge you when OCD seems stronger & pulls you off course :)

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Hi Caramoole and everyone else,

I'm really sorry to bother you and waste your time once again but I'm struggling a bit today.

On 09/10/2021 at 22:30, Cora said:

Hello, 

Today my brain decided to give something else to worry about after a few days of normality. I've realised that most of the times when the words 'child' and 'sex' (or something of this sort) come together in the same scenario, I tend to be very curious about it. But it's a very disgusting kind of curious. And that's because of the arousal caused by the specific scenario. I don't know if it makes sense, but what I'm trying to say is that in those moments I like how the arousal feels and I keep engaging with the scenario because of the arousal. It is very disturbing when you think about it, and the worst part is that I can't help it, just like people with inappropriate sexual interests can't. 

I know I have OCD and that's what caused all of this in the first place. But liking the arousal and allowing myself to enjoy what's happening both in my body and mind in that respective moment is only caused by me and not my OCD, and that's what worries me. 

Again, I hope this makes sense. 

 

On 11/10/2021 at 10:25, Saffron37 said:

You're definitely checking, Cora. You're checking to see if you're feeling any arousal. Feeling like you want it to continue is the very definition of a compulsion--just like I completely felt that I wanted to keep digging into my breast, despite the fact that it was so painful. 

Because my compulsive behavior involved such an explicitly unpleasant sensation (pain), it's easier for me to see the compulsion for what it is. That's literally the only difference between us. 

 

So something happened today and I got this worry back. I revisited my old threads and found this. I've read and read Saffron's and everyone else's explanations, which are great by the way, but once again, just like almost anything related to my worries, I find it hard to understand how I was checking if it didn't feel like checking. And I know that is because of my distorted thing but I feel like I should be able to understand at least something. I almost feel like I'm constantly lying to myself. 

Also, I'm not sure I understand how me wanting it (the felling/arousal/whatever I experience in that moment) is a compulsion either. Do I not understand it because of how I view sex and taboo themes together? 

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