Help with moving on (Real Event/False Memory)

[Lewis96]

How do I accept the things I done as a 4/5 year old don’t matter now? Especially if no one remembers or they weren’t that bad? 

[northpaul]

14 minutes ago, Lewis96 said:

How do I accept the things I done as a 4/5 year old don’t matter now? Especially if no one remembers or they weren’t that bad? 

In my case, I still have quite clear memory of my family dynamics of 60 years ago.  Some of the instilled values of that time remained with me for decades.  In my most recent  CBT therapy (last year), my therapist was adamant she had to explain to me how my early years experience affects my OCD thinking now.  I firmly and politely said that it was so long ago that it was no longer any real relevance to my situation here and now.

Instead I wanted to discuss how to deal with my OCD issues today in order to make life better tomorrow.  In a way, that was drawing a line in the sand - I only want to look in one direction - that is forward.

In recent months I have been doing a clearout in my home.  This involved getting rid of old stuff from all those years ago.  This has helped to keep me focussed on looking forward.

The CBT therapy is helping me to 'tolerate the uncertainty' as I progress along recovery road.

[snowbear]

49 minutes ago, Lewis96 said:

How do I accept the things I done as a 4/5 year old don’t matter now?

Maybe the easiest way to explain it is with an analogy.

Imagine you've just been given a wonderful new smartphone with an amazing 10TB of memory space.

Now imagine there was no such thing as a delete button and no recycling bin on your phone.

Once you've taken a picture it stays on the phone forever, using up memory space.

Everything you ever search for remains in your search history, slowing down the next search you do as the browser has to trawl through more and more history...

Every typo you ever made when writing a message stays on the screen. There's no back button, no correction facility.  

Every text message you send and receive stays in your outbox/inbox, taking up space. If you text a lot your message boxes are soon full.

Your friend changes their phone, but there's no edit button so you can't update their details and you lose contact.

Trying to find anything useful on your phone gets harder and harder as it gets more and more clogged up with old stuff. Old stuff that's no longer relevant, but you have no way to delete it or remove it.

Your once amazing 10TB of memory space is down to almost nothing. You need to make space if you're going to keep using your phone!

But you can't make space, so you have to throw away your phone, losing the data you wanted to keep   along with the rubbish you wanted to delete.

 

You buy a new phone- start again, choosing one with an even bigger memory, a bigger 'brain'. 

But before long that phone also gets full and stops working...

Imagine now someone comes along and invents a phone with a delete button, a recycling bin, an edit button to correct typos and update your data as things change ....   

Well, you already have something equivalent to that - it's called a brain!

Your brain has the ability to learn from the past, to keep the memories you want to keep   To delete data you no longer need. To edit and update your thinking as you learn, gain life experience, develop control over your emotions and take responsibility for your actions.

 

Part of the normal brain 'editing' process is updating data/ changing the way you see yourself and the world as you go through life. 

It enables you to put the past into context (I was 5 years old, I didn't know better!) and not dwell on things you did when young as if your 5 year-old-self should be held to account in exactly the same way as your adult self .

You're allowed to use your 'edit button'. You're allowed to let go of things from your past.

Don't treat your brain like a smartphone without a delete function.

[Keyboard Worrier]

What a fantastic analogy, Snowbear!

My brain seems to be faulty though, just comes up with an error message when I try to delete a memory.  Damn thing's well out of warranty too. 

[Renky]

At the beginning it was hard to find new apartments to live. So I used different ways to find correct solution. One of my friends adviced to search houses for sale because I had amount money of it’s buying because collected it before. Il London I started new life.

[discuccsant]

Whatever your issue was, I think you need to understand that science, society and law make a clear distinction between actions from childhood and between actions from adulthood. That's for a reason: Our brain is simply not fully developed yet at early ages. So whatever the issue itself was, it's not that important as you think, simply because you were a child or teenager. Of course, there are exception to that like murder, but 99.99% of all people, who have OCD related to real events from the past, are concerned about nonsense or non issues, nobody would give second thought about.  I've seen too many of these, real event themed OCD stuff, to make this conclusion. And for a fact: Everybody has some haunting, cringy and weird memories from their childhood. But, as always, the difference between their and our thinking comes from OCD:

OCD makes you catastrophize stuff. Contrary, "normal people" aren't catastrophizing these past events and attach any meaning to them. They see them for what they are: Not relevant anymore and important, because they were young. They are able to contextualize and rationalize. You're not, because you have OCD, and therefore you simply catastrophize your cringy memories AND try to attach a meaning to it. What do I mean by meaning? Well, the very following:

"If I did X in my childhood, does that mean I'm actually a Y?"

"Why would I have done such a thing like X in my teenage days, if it weren't for the fact, that I'm in fact a Y"

"I can't change that I have done X as a child, so I must accept, that I'm Y for the rest of my life"

"That I have done X in school, must mean, that I'm a Y, because only Y do that"

"Because I saw X back then, it must mean, that I'm a closeted Y who just happened to deny it all until this very point of my life"

I think there are a lot more question you may ask yourself, over and over again. It's not really relevant though what these questions are. But that's the very issue: You always try to make a conclusion Y out of the random real event X from your childhood past. And to draw the connection between all OCD themes: You give something a meaning, when there is no meaning. But here is the deal: You don't have to, because nobody does that.

If I were you, I would simply start taking the leap of faith in believing all the people, you told about this event, that it's not a big deal and THEN ALSO to STOP attaching any meaning to your haunting memory, by not making very far-reaching conclusions out of this regarding your personality, morality and character. 

Let it go. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by discuccsant

[Lewis96]

Thanks everyone, for helping. I was managing to suppress it a little bit but it’s still strong. I don’t want to just be able to not think about it, I want to be able to think about it and not worry or feel anything over it, is that possible? 
 

I also feel I don’t deserve to be happy for these incident as a kid, that bugs and hurts me a lot 

[Lewis96]

On 23/06/2022 at 16:42, discuccsant said:

Whatever your issue was, I think you need to understand that science, society and law make a clear distinction between actions from childhood and between actions from adulthood. That's for a reason: Our brain is simply not fully developed yet at early ages. So whatever the issue itself was, it's not that important as you think, simply because you were a child or teenager. Of course, there are exception to that like murder, but 99.99% of all people, who have OCD related to real events from the past, are concerned about nonsense or non issues, nobody would give second thought about.  I've seen too many of these, real event themed OCD stuff, to make this conclusion. And for a fact: Everybody has some haunting, cringy and weird memories from their childhood. But, as always, the difference between their and our thinking comes from OCD:

OCD makes you catastrophize stuff. Contrary, "normal people" aren't catastrophizing these past events and attach any meaning to them. They see them for what they are: Not relevant anymore and important, because they were young. They are able to contextualize and rationalize. You're not, because you have OCD, and therefore you simply catastrophize your cringy memories AND try to attach a meaning to it. What do I mean by meaning? Well, the very following:

"If I did X in my childhood, does that mean I'm actually a Y?"

"Why would I have done such a thing like X in my teenage days, if it weren't for the fact, that I'm in fact a Y"

"I can't change that I have done X as a child, so I must accept, that I'm Y for the rest of my life"

"That I have done X in school, must mean, that I'm a Y, because only Y do that"

"Because I saw X back then, it must mean, that I'm a closeted Y who just happened to deny it all until this very point of my life"

I think there are a lot more question you may ask yourself, over and over again. It's not really relevant though what these questions are. But that's the very issue: You always try to make a conclusion Y out of the random real event X from your childhood past. And to draw the connection between all OCD themes: You give something a meaning, when there is no meaning. But here is the deal: You don't have to, because nobody does that.

If I were you, I would simply start taking the leap of faith in believing all the people, you told about this event, that it's not a big deal and THEN ALSO to STOP attaching any meaning to your haunting memory, by not making very far-reaching conclusions out of this regarding your personality, morality and character. 

Let it go. 

Thank you for this post Discuccscant, I didn’t notice it the first time round and it’s really helpful to read.

 

The two memories I struggle with aren’t that particularly bad, the people involved also don’t seem to remember and I know that if I was to never mention it again it would never be brought up, yet this just doesn’t seem to be enough to quash my feelings. I’m trying to label these as OCD but my mind thinks I should be dealing with them both. It can seem such a struggle sometimes. 
 

Currently I’m caught between “you were a child and they weren’t that bad” and “Okay they happened but it is all OCD” and neither seems strong enough to push the feeling away for now. 
 

I will definitely get there, I know I’ll get back to how I used to be, I just need to find the right recipe for me I guess.

[discuccsant]

18 hours ago, Lewis96 said:

Thank you for this post Discuccscant, I didn’t notice it the first time round and it’s really helpful to read.

 

The two memories I struggle with aren’t that particularly bad, the people involved also don’t seem to remember and I know that if I was to never mention it again it would never be brought up, yet this just doesn’t seem to be enough to quash my feelings. I’m trying to label these as OCD but my mind thinks I should be dealing with them both. It can seem such a struggle sometimes. 
 

Currently I’m caught between “you were a child and they weren’t that bad” and “Okay they happened but it is all OCD” and neither seems strong enough to push the feeling away for now. 
 

I will definitely get there, I know I’ll get back to how I used to be, I just need to find the right recipe for me I guess.

Great to hear that I could give you some insights here. 

I think trying to reduce your anxiety by saying to yourself these kinds of statements over and over again, could become a compulsion in itself. And that's something you don't want to do, as this is the reason, your brain brings these memories up over and over, because of all the attention it gets from you. So it's not a good idea to try reasoning with it, whenever you feel your OCD flaring up again. Nope. Yeah, sometimes it really helps people to get over something very quickly, but sometimes, like in your case, it doesn't. You seem stuck.

So what should you? All you should do from now on is not giving the intrusive memories, once they randomly pop up again, any kind of importance by any kind of attention anymore. Instead, you should start trying to fully ignore them - no matter how hard they hit on you. You let them go. Saying to yourself some mantra over and over won't help, and in fact strengthens your OCD. Compulsions are bad, no matter in what forms you carry them on. 

 

[Lewis96]

1 hour ago, discuccsant said:

Great to hear that I could give you some insights here. 

I think trying to reduce your anxiety by saying to yourself these kinds of statements over and over again, could become a compulsion in itself. And that's something you don't want to do, as this is the reason, your brain brings these memories up over and over, because of all the attention it gets from you. So it's not a good idea to try reasoning with it, whenever you feel your OCD flaring up again. Nope. Yeah, sometimes it really helps people to get over something very quickly, but sometimes, like in your case, it doesn't. You seem stuck.

So what should you? All you should do from now on is not giving the intrusive memories, once they randomly pop up again, any kind of importance by any kind of attention anymore. Instead, you should start trying to fully ignore them - no matter how hard they hit on you. You let them go. Saying to yourself some mantra over and over won't help, and in fact strengthens your OCD. Compulsions are bad, no matter in what forms you carry them on. 

 

That all makes total sense, I keep thinking I can “think my way out of it”, 

 

I’ll think “I was a kid, it’s fine” or “They’re not even that bad a memory” but then I’ll think “What if I don’t remember everything though and I’ve done something”

 

Its so tricky, knowing what I SHOULD NOT do yet doing it anyways. One thing I believe, is that the people involved do not care about it, even if it was real.

 

When they pop into my mind, what exactly should I do or say? Whenever I try and “force them out” they just eventually come back and usually stronger. Whenever I reason I make it worse, like above, so I’m stuck on what I should be saying/doing when I’m thinking about them all the time.

 

I have my own business in which I want to be successful in, but I’m ignoring it so much right now as I believe I done deserve it, which feeds it further. 
 

Thanks for taking your time out to help, 

 

Lewis 

[DRS1]

2 minutes ago, Lewis96 said:

That all makes total sense, I keep thinking I can “think my way out of it”, 

 

I’ll think “I was a kid, it’s fine” or “They’re not even that bad a memory” but then I’ll think “What if I don’t remember everything though and I’ve done something”

 

Its so tricky, knowing what I SHOULD NOT do yet doing it anyways. One thing I believe, is that the people involved do not care about it, even if it was real.

 

When they pop into my mind, what exactly should I do or say? Whenever I try and “force them out” they just eventually come back and usually stronger. Whenever I reason I make it worse, like above, so I’m stuck on what I should be saying/doing when I’m thinking about them all the time.

 

I have my own business in which I want to be successful in, but I’m ignoring it so much right now as I believe I done deserve it, which feeds it further. 
 

Thanks for taking your time out to help, 

 

Lewis 

The main issue is in what you have described. You try to "force them out", it just becomes a thought neutralisation compulsion. Surprisingly and ironically with OCD, if you didn't do that, it would actually go away as it would be less bothersome to you but when you do that forcing the thought out compulsion, you are merely reinforcing to your brain this is something I should worry about. Everyone of us probably has events as a kid we regret and for me I had OCD target those too so I know how you feel. I learned that I can allow it to be there. It's tough, it doesn't feel nice and there's initially a lot of anxiety but eventually it goes down and I can move on from it. Acknowledging the compulsion when you do it could be a first step to this to at least recognise when you are doing it. Then from there you can bring the thought back up after doing the compulsion and do ERP to nullify the effects of the compulsion.

[Lewis96]

12 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

The main issue is in what you have described. You try to "force them out", it just becomes a thought neutralisation compulsion. Surprisingly and ironically with OCD, if you didn't do that, it would actually go away as it would be less bothersome to you but when you do that forcing the thought out compulsion, you are merely reinforcing to your brain this is something I should worry about. Everyone of us probably has events as a kid we regret and for me I had OCD target those too so I know how you feel. I learned that I can allow it to be there. It's tough, it doesn't feel nice and there's initially a lot of anxiety but eventually it goes down and I can move on from it. Acknowledging the compulsion when you do it could be a first step to this to at least recognise when you are doing it. Then from there you can bring the thought back up after doing the compulsion and do ERP to nullify the effects of the compulsion.

And when you say this has happened to you previously, does it now not bother you? 
 

I went years without it bothering me, and all of a sudden it comes back up. 
 

I’ll try and just let the thoughts sit, and not do anything towards them. I just find it tricky as I feel I should be punished etc.

 

Thanks again 

[DRS1]

1 minute ago, Lewis96 said:

And when you say this has happened to you previously, does it now not bother you? 
 

I went years without it bothering me, and all of a sudden it comes back up. 
 

I’ll try and just let the thoughts sit, and not do anything towards them. I just find it tricky as I feel I should be punished etc.

 

Thanks again 

Yeah, now it doesn't bother me. In fact, before seeing your post, I had completely forgotten about it entirely. The last part of your response is interesting. "As I feel I should be punished". This is the horribly wrong guilt OCD makes us think we should have. Why shouldn't we have to think about it every day and try to change it? I should totally be punished for something that happened in the past through excessive guilt for the rest of my life. However, you learn eventually that OCD can sit there and think but you don't have to allow yourself to put all that guilt on yourself if you think its unjustified. You can also allow the feelings of guilt be there even if you don't think its justified. They just like the thoughts, are just feelings.

[Lewis96]

3 hours ago, DRS1 said:

Yeah, now it doesn't bother me. In fact, before seeing your post, I had completely forgotten about it entirely. The last part of your response is interesting. "As I feel I should be punished". This is the horribly wrong guilt OCD makes us think we should have. Why shouldn't we have to think about it every day and try to change it? I should totally be punished for something that happened in the past through excessive guilt for the rest of my life. However, you learn eventually that OCD can sit there and think but you don't have to allow yourself to put all that guilt on yourself if you think its unjustified. You can also allow the feelings of guilt be there even if you don't think its justified. They just like the thoughts, are just feelings.

I’m sorry if I’ve made you remember it again. 
 

So do I just let everything build up and don’t act? This is always the bit I get confused at, I know I’ve to let them feelings and thoughts sit but I’ve also not to ruminate 

[DRS1]

9 hours ago, Lewis96 said:

I’m sorry if I’ve made you remember it again. 
 

So do I just let everything build up and don’t act? This is always the bit I get confused at, I know I’ve to let them feelings and thoughts sit but I’ve also not to ruminate 

Oh, I'm still not fussed about remembering it. It genuinely makes no difference whether it comes back up or not for me because of the things I learned in therapy. Yeah so you can allow the feelings to be there. They might initially get more intense almost like OCD is essentially going "wait, what? Why are you not doing something about this". However, feelings will go away. You will forget about them. It's like having anxiety in general. It's pretty hard to have that super strong feeling of anxiety 24 hours a day and at some point it has to decrease.

 

Rumination is a big problem. You can take steps to initially recognise when you ruminate and then try to take a step back from it by just acknowledging when you are ruminating and what that looks like for you. Cutting out rumination will make a massive difference.

[Lewis96]

4 hours ago, DRS1 said:

Oh, I'm still not fussed about remembering it. It genuinely makes no difference whether it comes back up or not for me because of the things I learned in therapy. Yeah so you can allow the feelings to be there. They might initially get more intense almost like OCD is essentially going "wait, what? Why are you not doing something about this". However, feelings will go away. You will forget about them. It's like having anxiety in general. It's pretty hard to have that super strong feeling of anxiety 24 hours a day and at some point it has to decrease.

 

Rumination is a big problem. You can take steps to initially recognise when you ruminate and then try to take a step back from it by just acknowledging when you are ruminating and what that looks like for you. Cutting out rumination will make a massive difference.

Thank you for this, so I’ll try and stop ruminating. When people say “sit with the thoughts” I do get confused with what I’ve to try and do. 

[MentalChecker]

Lots of good advice in this thread.

However, just by starting the thread shows that you aren't letting it go, you are ruminating constantly about it, and it's this that's keeping the OCD loop alive. 

EVERY time you get the thought/worry come into your head, you need to ignore it, don't give it any time at all, just let the thought/worry come into your head and let it leave as quickly as it came in. This is an acquired skill, and initially you will feel anxious and it will stick around for a long time (mine lasted approximately 3 to 4 days at a time to begin with), however even though I consider myself as 99% recovered, I still get the intrusive thoughts (like everybody including non OCD. sufferers) and it now only lasts minutes.

You also need to act normally, because any different bodily/mental reaction when the thought enters your mind will be a trigger for your mind to know that this thought is bothersome to you and it will then keep repeating. 

[Lewis96]

11 hours ago, MentalChecker said:

Lots of good advice in this thread.

However, just by starting the thread shows that you aren't letting it go, you are ruminating constantly about it, and it's this that's keeping the OCD loop alive. 

EVERY time you get the thought/worry come into your head, you need to ignore it, don't give it any time at all, just let the thought/worry come into your head and let it leave as quickly as it came in. This is an acquired skill, and initially you will feel anxious and it will stick around for a long time (mine lasted approximately 3 to 4 days at a time to begin with), however even though I consider myself as 99% recovered, I still get the intrusive thoughts (like everybody including non OCD. sufferers) and it now only lasts minutes.

You also need to act normally, because any different bodily/mental reaction when the thought enters your mind will be a trigger for your mind to know that this thought is bothersome to you and it will then keep repeating. 

Thank you for this advice 

 

So when the thought comes into my mind, how do I let it sit but also don’t ruminate? That’s the bit I struggle with.

[MentalChecker]

1 hour ago, Lewis96 said:

Thank you for this advice 

 

So when the thought comes into my mind, how do I let it sit but also don’t ruminate? That’s the bit I struggle with.

You can't control your thoughts but you can control your reactions to them. 

Imagine having an itch in an inappropriate place (nose/bumb whatever!) when you're speaking to somebody, it wouldn't be very nice itching when they are looking at you, so you decide to postpone it until they are no longer looking at you, but then you realise the itch has gone away all on its own and doesn't need scratching. 

Bit like OCD, you will be itching like mad (anxiety) and want to scratch it (ruminate/reassure) to relieve the itch (anxiety), but if you don't do anything and just sit with it, the itch (anxiety) will begin to fade without you doing anything.

And the good news is the more you practice it the quicker the anxiety goes away.

It's the only way to deal with OCD.

You will NEVER stop the OCD loop by seeking reassurance, the only thing this will do is guarantee to keep the OCD loop spinning.

Edited July 26, 2022 by MentalChecker

[northpaul]

1 hour ago, MentalChecker said:

It's the only way to deal with OCD.

I do not subscribe entirely to this narrow statement when you say it is the only way.

I agree that not reacting to the thoughts is a keypoint and that by siiting with the thoughts the anxiety can/will in time fade away.

If I go back 30 years one of the things I learned in therapy then was diversion therapy.  I have learned to divert my attention away when I start getting stuck in the 'OCD loop'.  Diversion therapy also helps to stop the negative thoughts before they get a grip on me.

The more tools that I have in my toolbox to fight OCD give me a variety of ways to beat OCD.  It is now 9 months since my most recent CBT therapy which concentrated on 'sitting with the thoughts' till they fade away - that worked.  However, by adding in the older diversion therapy - that accelerated the thought fading process.  Some of my compulsions simply melted away by engaging in an aggresive diversion therapy plan along side the more recent CBT therapy.

[MentalChecker]

8 minutes ago, northpaul said:

I do not subscribe entirely to this narrow statement when you say it is the only way.

I agree that not reacting to the thoughts is a keypoint and that by siiting with the thoughts the anxiety can/will in time fade away.

If I go back 30 years one of the things I learned in therapy then was diversion therapy.  I have learned to divert my attention away when I start getting stuck in the 'OCD loop'.  Diversion therapy also helps to stop the negative thoughts before they get a grip on me.

The more tools that I have in my toolbox to fight OCD give me a variety of ways to beat OCD.  It is now 9 months since my most recent CBT therapy which concentrated on 'sitting with the thoughts' till they fade away - that worked.  However, by adding in the older diversion therapy - that accelerated the thought fading process.  Some of my compulsions simply melted away by engaging in an aggresive diversion therapy plan along side the more recent CBT therapy.

What I meant was 'not engaging with the thoughts and not reassuring yourself/or getting it from others' is the only way to deal with OCD, and I stand by that statement.

ANY amount of engagement will cause anxiety to build and ANY amount of reassurance will continue the loop.

I'm glad to hear the diversion therapy is working for you, however remember we are not to try and avoid our fears, thererore need to be careful about avoidance, as this can also be counterproductive. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by MentalChecker

[Lewis96]

Hi everyone,

 

thanks for all your advice. I have been trying to ignore the thoughts and I’ll continue to do so.

 

I do have a question however, the constant thoughts make my mood really low, it’s as if I’m depressed even when trying to let the thoughts lie, how do I lift my mood and continue with my day?

[MentalChecker]

7 hours ago, Lewis96 said:

Hi everyone,

 

thanks for all your advice. I have been trying to ignore the thoughts and I’ll continue to do so.

 

I do have a question however, the constant thoughts make my mood really low, it’s as if I’m depressed even when trying to let the thoughts lie, how do I lift my mood and continue with my day?

You don't need to try and lift your mood, it will happen naturally once you spend less time engaging with the thoughts and more time doing the things in life that make you happy.

And that last bit may actually be a compulsion in itself, I. E you 'feel' like you need to lift your mood before you continue with your day?

You don't need to lift your mood before you continue with your day at all, it works the other way around, you need to continue with your day (regardless of how you feel) and your mood will then change (eventually and if your not engaging with the thoughts) naturally. 

[DRS1]

25 minutes ago, MentalChecker said:

You don't need to try and lift your mood, it will happen naturally once you spend less time engaging with the thoughts and more time doing the things in life that make you happy.

And that last bit may actually be a compulsion in itself, I. E you 'feel' like you need to lift your mood before you continue with your day?

You don't need to lift your mood before you continue with your day at all, it works the other way around, you need to continue with your day (regardless of how you feel) and your mood will then change (eventually and if your not engaging with the thoughts) naturally. 

[Lewis96]

17 hours ago, MentalChecker said:

You don't need to try and lift your mood, it will happen naturally once you spend less time engaging with the thoughts and more time doing the things in life that make you happy.

And that last bit may actually be a compulsion in itself, I. E you 'feel' like you need to lift your mood before you continue with your day?

You don't need to lift your mood before you continue with your day at all, it works the other way around, you need to continue with your day (regardless of how you feel) and your mood will then change (eventually and if your not engaging with the thoughts) naturally. 

See that’s where I struggle, I know that makes sense but I feel I don’t deserve to live my day how I want to live it, to do the things I want to do, because of what I’ve done. 
 

I also go through spells right now, where I’m “okay” for a couple of weeks then back to being in a hole again, and I can’t work out why I return to being low again.