CBD

[OB1UK]

Morning all

has anyone had a positive  experience with using CBD to treat OCD? I’m curious because research suggests there could be benefits from 300mg doses, but most products only contain 5-25mg.

[northpaul]

Hello and welcome to the forums.  Can I ask what is CBD?

[OB1UK]

Hi there, CBD is an extract from hemp. It’s gained increasing popularity for treating various conditions. Recently a pharmaceutical version was approved for treating childhood epilepsy. It available as a oral supplement, seemingly with various degrees of quality 

[northpaul]

CBD - The following HM Government site is worth a read on this one:  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acmd-advice-on-consumer-cannabidiol-cbd-products/consumer-cannabidiol-cbd-products-report-accessible-version

[howard]

3 hours ago, OB1UK said:

Morning all

has anyone had a positive  experience with using CBD to treat OCD? I’m curious because research suggests there could be benefits from 300mg doses, but most products only contain 5-25mg.

I use CBD paste. I don't think it can help with the psychological aspects of OCD, but it does elevate the mood and soothe stress levels. Which obliquely can help with stress related conditions.

I use it mainly to reduce the effects of my IBS which is also stress related. 

The 23% paste I use contains 2,300 mg(10,000mg per 10 mls).

[ocdjonesy]

1 minute ago, northpaul said:

CBD - The following HM Government site is worth a read on this one:  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acmd-advice-on-consumer-cannabidiol-cbd-products/consumer-cannabidiol-cbd-products-report-accessible-version

Actually I'd be very wary of anything the UK government has to say about CBD/medical cannabis and it's psychoactivity given that the UK is actually one of the largest producers of both in europe and currently the government sanctions private prescription services as an adjunct to NHS care for the treatment of a number of conditions including OCD.  As I remember current access to treatment with these substances relies on you having been treated on the NHS with at least two frontline treatments that haven't worked (so for pain codeine and gabapentin, for mental illness several trycyclics/therapy).

It's a very grey area and a legalisation of cannabis for medical purposes through the backdoor which side steps the moral outrage that the idea of anyone getting high can cause since it's such an emotive, political wedge issue.  It's been going on several years now and you can find any of these clinics with a cursory google.  The service will assess (for a cost) your condition, ask for permission to access your medical records and then move forward with their services if it's deemed necessary through your local chemist.  It's obviously pricey and last I looked into it supply is spotty at best as it's a new service.

It is true though that the use of medical cannabis is a very new area and that very little research has been done on it and it's regulation.  Some people swear by it, some people are hugely opposed to it because like I said - wedge issue.  I've personally known a number of americans who've been prescribed it for a number of conditions and who have found it useful.  But then I've also known the same americans be into electro magnetic brain stimulation, cooling helmets, weighted blankets, xanax, dmt, and ketamine (which is another drug being trialed in the treatment of depression in the uk currently) because america is just very into magic bullets and eating a lot of pills which is the reason for and also the product of their sales based health service of which, like anything there are pros and cons.

Personally I've tried CBD and found it to help with anxiety but at the levels it's commercially available at I had to vape more of it than I could logically afford to have an all day sort of relief.  Whether or not the higher strength CBD available through the services I mentioned above would be more effective I don't know because my application to the one I tried went missing I think when my doctors didn't forward my notes and I was not enthused enough about the idea to chase it up.  

So, personal experience wise yes CBD can help with anxiety spikes say if you're in crisis and you need to try to relax and would prefer to use it instead of say diazempam or a beta blocker (which I do in some circumstances) but it's probably not going to give you a long term calming sensation in lower doses.  

There's also a bunch of other stuff to consider but I think I've typed enough at this point 

[Handy]

Cannabis has been illegal in USA so they can't research it.  So there just isn't much research on it.  People could say cannabis doesn't cause cancer because there is no research saying it does. That's correct but that's because there hasn't been any research at all.  

There is no way to measure potency of CBT oil, so no way to have consistency for proof of effect.

In USA, we have synthetic THC by prescription.  That stuff has measured potency & boy is it potent. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Handy
Word

[howard]

So CBD doesn't contain THC. It's best to buy it from a reputable company and you can get it at a strength that suits you(3000 mg per 10ml is highest I've seen). They suggest you start at low to medium levels.

Also you can buy it as a liquid, usually flavoured, which you just put under your tongue for a few seconds, or as a paste. They also add it to food like chocalate but you could just add it to your own food.

It is beneficial at enhancing mood and reducing stress levels. I buy it online, it's delivered the next day.

[Handy]

11 hours ago, howard said:

So CBD doesn't contain THC. It's best to buy it from a reputable company and you can get it at a strength that suits you(3000 mg per 10ml is highest I've seen). They suggest you start at low to medium levels.

Also you can buy it as a liquid, usually flavoured, which you just put under your tongue for a few seconds, or as a paste. They also add it to food like chocalate but you could just add it to your own food.

It is beneficial at enhancing mood and reducing stress levels. I buy it online, it's delivered the next day.

How do you know that's not a placebo effect?

[howard]

11 hours ago, Handy said:

How do you know that's not a placebo effect?

You can't really check that without some dual trials. But I try these things, supplements, homeopathic, etc, for a while and see if I notice the effects.

The CBD works for my IBS and that would make sense. The stomach is surrounded by the greatest concentration of neurons outside of the brain. I think we do hold stress in our bodies.

It also has a calming effect. I think that's why the extract those constituents from the plant.

 

[ocdjonesy]

Why would it matter if is was a placebo effect if it’s working for you?  That sounds kinda black and white thinking territory if I’m honest.  If someone is happy to pay the money for cbd because doing so makes them feel better what’s the problem?

[howard]

The review page for the seller is very positive. It does seem to help a diverese range of problems going by their feedback.

I'm sceptical of pharmaceutical companies.  GP's will often give out ibruprophen, and many others that have side effects all over the body.

So if a more natural medicine is available I'll give it a try. They even put in balms for stressed necks.

 

[Handy]

On 28/06/2022 at 06:27, howard said:

So CBD doesn't contain THC. It's best to buy it from a reputable company and you can get it at a strength that suits you(3000 mg per 10ml is highest I've seen). They suggest you start at low to medium levels.

Also you can buy it as a liquid, usually flavoured, which you just put under your tongue for a few seconds, or as a paste. They also add it to food like chocalate but you could just add it to your own food.

It is beneficial at enhancing mood and reducing stress levels. I buy it online, it's delivered the next day.

It does contain THC, from the source above it clearly states “ 

At present the CBD within these products is derived primarily from the plant Cannabis. Due to difficulties in isolating CBD from other cannabinoids, consumer CBD products also contain varying amounts of trans-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-C5 (∆9-THC) and other cannabinoids present in Cannabis that are controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (MDA).“

[Caramoole]

I noticed leaflets in my pharmacy the other day offering private prescription service for medical cannabis 

[daja]

I tried it a few times - even from a source strongly recommended. I thought it was just snake oil or too subtle to warrant the cost.

[snowbear]

6 hours ago, Handy said:

It does contain THC, from the source above it clearly states “ 

At present the CBD within these products is derived primarily from the plant Cannabis. Due to difficulties in isolating CBD from other cannabinoids, consumer CBD products also contain varying amounts of trans-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-C5 (∆9-THC) and other cannabinoids present in Cannabis that are controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (MDA).“

It's not often we agree, Handy but on this occassion you're absolutely right. 

Medical grade CBD products do have very low levels of THC in them. But they are much safer than using any kind of 'street' canabis which has unpredictable amounts of both CBD and THC. However even 'medical' CBD cannot be guaranteed totally THC free and therefore still carries a small risk of THC-related side-effects.

One of those side-effects is psychosis, which in turn is more likely to occur in people with existing mental health issues. Small risk with medical grade CBD, but anyone self-prescribing it should be aware there is that risk.

Regular use of canabis products has also been shown to cause mental problems when taken over a long time. There's currently no scientific consensus on how long 'a long time' is.

That said, canabis is an interesting drug. Both CBD and THC have their place in treating a variety of mental health issues under supervision. But you're currently not likely to get it prescribed for OCD in the UK as it isn't a recommended treatment (yet.) 

My advice is

- do your research

- buy your CBD from a responsible/regulated seller who guarantees they are medical grade products (and not just making claims to that effect)

- and use the minimum you need for as short a duration as possible.

[howard]

10 hours ago, Handy said:

It does contain THC, from the source above it clearly states “ 

At present the CBD within these products is derived primarily from the plant Cannabis. Due to difficulties in isolating CBD from other cannabinoids, consumer CBD products also contain varying amounts of trans-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-C5 (∆9-THC) and other cannabinoids present in Cannabis that are controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (MDA).“

'CBD oil does not contain THC levels greater than 0.01% so using CBD oil does not have a psychological effect'. <in UK it's legal.  

It's just something else that people try if they aren't keen on pharmaceutical medicines, or they've tried everything the NHS has to offer.

I believe in being open minded about alternatives.

[howard]

On 30/06/2022 at 03:34, daja said:

I tried it a few times - even from a source strongly recommended. I thought it was just snake oil or too subtle to warrant the cost.

It's not like manufactured medicines that are designed to have an effect quickly. But that usually comes at cost with a whole range of side effects affecting biological processes and even major organs.

It has been shown in a study to reduce blood pressure straight away. People with chronic pain who don't want to keep long term use of painkillers, have found switching to CBD long term to be beneficial. But it's a gradual reduction in pain over time.

The study I think OB1UK is refering to was carried out in 2015, 'Cannabidiol as a Potential Treatment for Anxiety Disorders'. CBD was seen to reduce general anxiety by mellowing the nervous system and is seen as a potential way of managing; anxiety, panic attacks, PTSD and OCD. Some positive results in an ongoing study.

It's also been seen to help with some very specific forms of epilepsy and even nausea during chemo.

Cannabidiol as a Potential Treatment for Anxiety Disorders>              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4604171/

[Handy]

On 29/06/2022 at 06:54, ocdjonesy said:

Why would it matter if is was a placebo effect if it’s working for you?  That sounds kinda black and white thinking territory if I’m honest.  If someone is happy to pay the money for cbd because doing so makes them feel better what’s the problem?

Too expensive. I priced it at $35 Oz in California.  It would be cheaper for me to eat an apple & it’s our most nutritious fruit. 

[howard]

15 hours ago, Handy said:

Too expensive. I priced it at $35 Oz in California.  It would be cheaper for me to eat an apple & it’s our most nutritious fruit. 

Can I just ask, do you have obsessive compulsions about;  mis-information and making illogical statements?

Saying something that comes in many forms and strengths is '$35 Oz', doesn't make sense.

I also checked and CBD is legal in the US because it has such a low level of THC as to be considered negligible.

What has eating an apple got to do with anything? Illogical! 

 

[OB1UK]

Hey, thanks for all the replies. I’ve tried it now for 2-3 weeks. Like someone said I’m probably looking for a magic bullet and it’s not that. I’m not really seeing any benefit and my thoughts have really got worse this week. I’m in a horrible position and don’t know how to get out of it.

[howard]

8 hours ago, OB1UK said:

Hey, thanks for all the replies. I’ve tried it now for 2-3 weeks. Like someone said I’m probably looking for a magic bullet and it’s not that. I’m not really seeing any benefit and my thoughts have really got worse this week. I’m in a horrible position and don’t know how to get out of it.

I don't know where this idea of a 'magic bullet' for anything comes from.

As I said, it won't help with the psychological asects of OCD. It's mainly about calming your nervous system. Also you are supposed to start at a low level and over time increase that until you feel the benefits. You should feel a calming wave after about 20 mins. And then a feeling of general happiness.

There's apparently something called the Endocannabinoid system, and the body produces a number on endocannabinoids. So if your body is deficient then CBD acts as a supplement. CBD also binds to the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor, and helps lift mood.

[northpaul]

58 minutes ago, howard said:

don't know where this idea of a 'magic bullet' for anything comes from.

As I said, it won't help with the psychological asects of OCD. It's mainly about calming your nervous system. Also you are supposed to start at a low level and over time increase that until you feel the benefits. You should feel a calming wave after about 20 mins. And then a feeling of general happiness.

There's apparently something called the Endocannabinoid system, and the body produces a number on endocannabinoids. So if your body is deficient then CBD acts as a supplement. CBD also binds to the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor, and helps lift mood.

To keep a balance on this subject and see information from a reliable NHS source it is worth reading the following NHS link: https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/cannabidiol-oil-potential-adverse-effects-and-drug-interactions/