HIV fears-Merged threads

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hey Rach

I'm still feelin pretty bad, trying to accostum myself to the idea of never being with anyone again and not living a long filled life etc. That sounds OTT I know, but thats the only way I know of dealing with it, getting used to the worst case senario, although I dont think you could ever get used to that sort of thing, obviously.

Erm, I'm still scared, terrified actually, but I'm not letting if affect my life, I'm still plodding on with things while its going round and round my head. I just wish things could get better and I could take peoples advice, but I just cant, to me I took a very large risk and I am very scared and cant stop thinking about it. I'm repeating myself now, so I'll leave it at this

Hannah x

[Guest daisychain]

Hey Hannah

What you just wrote I can totally relate to...when I was 19 and going through the same `big` worry, I was also trying to get myself accustomed to the worst case possibility, that I will be alone forever, whilst I waited 3 months for the test results. And, you know what?! They turned out negative! I was sooooo relieved, which I think you will be too when you get your results.

I also felt bad that I had suffered so much emotionally, with my OCD thoughts, depression, hating myself utterly- my OCD had put me through hell for those 3 months. I think it`s really important for you to keep perspective on how youre feeling and don`t let the OCD get out of hand, because your happiness is really important.

Could you try to change your perspective so that you are focused on the moment? What I mean is, look at time as a series of moments, with the most important being right now, the present- you can feel good in the moment. Also by looking at time like this, you realise that anything can happen in the future, and what you are thinking that will or could happen is only imaginery.

I read once that going for a walk in nature somewhere is really good for practising getting this perspective, where if you focus on the sights, sounds and smells of your surroundings you can take yourself out of your thoughts and experience the present. Dont forget, NOW is the most important place to be, not the future, nor past.

Anyway, just thought this could help you to feel better whilst you wait for the results, because I know the pain you are going through and it really isn`t worth it- LIFE GOES ON regardless of what the future may hold. :original:

Take care

Daisy xxx

[Guest hannahmaniac]

I've been thinking about the blood that came out my mouth the morning after when I brushed my teeth. It was quite a lot of blood, more than usually comes out from brushing my teeth and I cant help thinking what if it came from him and got into a cut when I brushed my teeth? I've been trying to rationalize my thoughts, but it isn't working so that's why I'm writing it in here, I need to tell somebody, feel really bogged down by everything

Hannah x

[Rachie]

Hi Hannah, I don't know what to say really - keep posting on here if it helps. Maybe you need to keep saying to yourself, "This is my OCD talking. It's not my views, it's the OCD making me think this way."

Trying to rationalize can lead you round and round in circles can't it? I think you need to keep remembering it's the OCD.

Can you distract yourself by doing something nice today?

Rach x

[Guest Smudger]

The only reason that you think there was more blood than normal is because your OCD is determined to blow everything out of proportion in order to keep a hold on you. Also, unless I'm misunderstanding you, how could it have been his blood? Let's ignore the fact that if any of his blood did make it into your mouth then the enzymes in your saliva would have destroyed any trace of the virus (a virus which you have no evidence to suggest he actually has), but you would have swallowed it-it wouldn't have floated around in your mouth, waiting to come back out when you brushed your teeth.

This is how desperate your OCD is getting-it's stretching the boundaries of truth because the cold, hard facts are not enough to keep you scared-it's resorting to ever more ridiculous lies and 'what if's?' in order to keep you down.

How long is it until you get your results?

[Guest hannahmaniac]

I wont get my results for another couple of months unfortunately seeing as the last time I was with him was just over 3 weeks ago.

I'm trying to do something nice this afternoon in going to walkabout to watch the rugby. TYDD CYMRU!

:clapping:

Hannah x

[Guest TOMO]

I've been thinking about the blood that came out my mouth the morning after when I brushed my teeth. It was quite a lot of blood, more than usually comes out from brushing my teeth and I cant help thinking what if it came from him and got into a cut when I brushed my teeth? I've been trying to rationalize my thoughts, but it isn't working so that's why I'm writing it in here, I need to tell somebody, feel really bogged down by everything

Hannah x

Hi,

Hannah i know where your comming from its horrible trying to rationalize the thoughts because each time you think you have, the OCD twists it, or if your not worring about it you think am i not worried because it aint true or am i just blocking it out Like you i suffer from OCD HIV fears and the trouble is with me i have been like this for about 7 Years and it aint really got any better even with CBT, the trouble is you can think about it so much it becomes normal to worry about it. Reading through your posts i know you will be ok as people have already said, and try not to shut yourself off from relationships because thats what i have done and because ive avoided it for so long now thats what as made my OCD worse, its like i wont get it from sex but "what if" i get it another way. So now my OCD thinks of all kinds of scenarious no matter how stupid and i worry about them instead. I think the point is you will spend so much energy worrying about the above but as soon as you find out that you were ok your OCD will bring another HIV fear in and this new worry will be "real" even though it aint its just your OCD.

Hope you feel better soon

Tomo. :original:

[Guest hannahmaniac]

hey everyone

I'm writing this while feeling very down, infact I believe this is the first time I have cried about this particular problem since its onset nearly a month ago. I feel very down and confused. Here is the problem:

I was worrying about the pants thing again so I phoned up a helpline and she gave me these points:

There is a small risk, but she would be very surpsised if anything happened.

She cant say there is no risk.

It is definately low risk.

I phoned up another helpline, and gave him the situation and he said:

No risk to low risk.

I'm so confused what to think, they are telling me not to worry but at the same time, telling me there is a risk, however small it is. But I keep on thinking so there is a risk and I am gonna have to wait months to find out whether there is something wrong and I dont know how I'm gonna do it!!! I'm so scared not only of the future, but of how I am gonna cope with these feelings I'm having. Alot of the time when I ask for reassurance, I feel better afterwards for quite a while, but this has left me feeling worse then I have done in ages. I've just broken down, I cant stop crying, I am so terrified.

People keep on telling me its my OCD but its just making me feel more and more confused, I feel like I should be taking some sort of responsibilty instead of saying its just my OCD. I dont know if it is my OCD.

I hate myself. Sounds self pitying and like I'm being some sort of depressive teenager, but its true. I hate myself.

Hannah x

[Guest Smudger]

Hannah, the reason the helpline people said what they did is to cover themselves legally.

The risk you've described is 'theoretical', as in, it could happen, in the same way that you could win the lottery, fall pregnant and get struck by a meteorite within the same hour - possible, but not at all likely.

For you to have contracted HIV under the circumstances you've described is so far from possible it's not even funny, but they have to say it's theoretically possible just in case.

So, in short, nothing's changed-you still didn't get HIV from the situation you're worried about.

[Guest NickNickNick]

The best way to approach this situation is to accept that you are at some sort of risk for HIV.

Use this script to help yourself to realize that the pain you are putting yourself in now, is not going to be worth it in the end. Repeat it over and over and calm down.

"I engaged in some sexual activity with a person whose history I do not know that well. It could be that I have HIV, even though I am at low risk. I could be the one case in the world that makes the news, being the first person to contract HIV from dry sex. The HIV could turn into AIDS and I could become very sick and even die. But, I will deal with all of that when it actually happens. If it turns out I don't have HIV, all the worrying and hell I am putting myself through will just be for nothing, so I will not deal with the consequences of HIV until I actually know that I have it."

You'll find this to be anxiety provoking at first, but soon after, things will turnaround.

Another thing I can tell you is that your worrying is not going to get better when you find out the you don't have HIV, should that be the case. They will turn into something else, and focus on other 'problems'. You need to script yourself with alternative thoughts and realizations, and beat the hell out of your OCD this way. It is tough at first, but after, things are much better...it worked for me.

Fight back.

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hey Nick

The first time I read that, I cried. Then calmed myself down, the second time I read it I cried. To be honest I am finding it difficult to see how telling me that I am at risk will make me feel better. I have been telling myself the 'i might die' thing for ages and thats what got me this depressed. I have just missed a seminar at Uni because I couldnt face sitting in there thinking and thinking and thinking about the chances of me having HIV and not being able to escape.

I have just read this message again and this time I didnt cry. It seemed less scary this time. Is that what its all about? Also, I'm just more confused, I phoned them up again last night (the 3rd time in a day! ) and a different lady answered and said that the fact he was wearing pants would have protected me, now I keep on thinking whether she thought I meant trousers, as thats what some people call them. But yeh, confusion because some people are telling me I'm at no risk, other people are telling me I'm low risk and I just dont know what to think.

I am still getting the what ifs, and I am finding them very hard to deal with

Hannah x

[Rachie]

Hi Hannah, I think the difference between you thinking "I might die" and Nick's script is that with your "I might die," it's an emotional, panicky thought and is the OCD making you catastophise. With Nick's script you are calmly addressing the situation in a non-catastrophic way and also, importantly, telling yourself you will deal with things if and when it happens. Does that make sense?

I hate to say this as it might upset you but I think you really need to stop ringing the helplines and stop seeking reassurance. As Nick says, your OCD will probably latch on to something else as soon as you find you don't have HIV. You've been told the risk is virtually nil, and your OCD doesn't like that so it keeps slyly finding ways to keep upsetting you so it concentrates on the very slight difference between "no risk" and "low risk".

You know that what-ifs are OCD. Keep reading the self-help books, see if you can talk to a counsellor again soon. One thing my previous CBT therapist got me to do was to try to put off worrying and then allow myself 30 minutes a day to really worry about things. I used to do that on my bike ride home from work. It worked sometimes and I'd say it's worth trying.

It IS your OCD, you're not shying away from responsibility at all, and please don't hate yourself...

How are you feeling now?

Rach x

[Guest hannahmaniac]

hey

Nick, after reading my last passage back, I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasnt blaming you for me missing my seminar, that was me, my choice.

I still feel like I'm petrified, but I am trying not to think about it. I'm gonna go in the living room in a bit and read my heat magazine :blushing:

Rach, I went to see my counsellor today, I have been given a new one and although I liked the old one, I do prefer this lady, shes really down to earth and asks me what I want from the counselling, I said I would like homeworks so she has given me a book to read about panic attacks because I often find them starting and although I dont always have panic attacks that much any more, my head still always goes into a state of panic, but I do feel better for seeing her. Coincidentally, she used to work for the HIV sector of the Lancashire Health Authority and so knows a bit about it, we have been talking it through which helps. I told her some more information today about the situation with this lad, which she said was in my favour and maybe I should tell the people on the helpline that, but I told her that I was fed up of phoning them at the moment and that I will mention it next time I feel the need to phone, which I hope wont be for a while.

I'm panicing now as I write this so I shall just have a look at that book.

I wish I could go back in time.

On the plus side, it is a lovely spring day today

Hannah x

[Rachie]

I'm glad you like this lady more - that sounds really positive. If the book's good let us know what it's called. I hope it's helpful - sounds good.

I bought Heat magazine today too! :blushing: Also Marie Claire - as if I need yet another free bag!

I've already read all the Chantelle/Preston stuff but looking forward to going through the rest of it.

You're right - it is a lovely spring day today, although it is a bit windy here in London.

Don't know if I've mentioned this before but when I was at uni in Lancaster I often used to go and visit the Ashton Memorial as I found it really peaceful around there. In the summer we used to go and revise in the park there!

Well done for taking positive steps.

Rach x

[Guest hannahmaniac]

ArGh!!! The what if's are going crazy. I havent told anyone this through embarrasment but also cos it hadnt bothered me until I started thinking bout it too much. If you dont wanna read too much detail into my sex life dont carry on, because it is quite graphic and I dont want to offend anyone.

When we were having dry sex, the lads pants were wet afterwards and he said he 'hadn't c***' it was from him leaning on me down there. You would have thought this would cheer me up which it did at first, but know I keep on thinking 'what if he wasn't telling the truth, what if it was from him?'. Would I still be low risk?

Also does anyone have any advice on how to cope with what if's? Cos right now they are ruining my life

Hannah x

Edited February 8, 2006 by Guest

[Guest Smudger]

Not low risk Hannah, no risk.

As for dealing with the what if's, what worked for me was putting off thinking about them for as long as I could. My aim was to try to go 15 minutes without ruminating from when the thoughts hit, and to then keep going for a s long as I could until I gave in. Hard at first, but it doesn't half make a difference in the long run.

Also, I found that treating the OCD as a living thing helped-I found that promising it I'd give it the attention it wanted, just not right away, really helped as well-it seemed to become less demanding if I wasn't just trying to out-right ignore it.

Hope that helps.

[Guest NickNickNick]

The easiest way to deal with what-ifs is to ignore them until they actually come true.

What if you have HIV? Deal with it when it happens.

What if I feel like you're blaming me for missing your seminar? Deal with it when I say that I feel that way.

Until then, let the thoughts flow thru you.

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hey everyone

Again, do not read if you are to be offended by graphic details

Scary thoughts for today:

That the man who had sex with the lad I was seeing is careless seeing as he didnt use a condom and therefore...I cant bring myself to say it but you know what I'm thinking.

That after dry sex, the lad put his fingers in me (sorry)(which I cant remember for sure anyway) and made anything go inside me more, or made me more likely to catch anything. Is this unlikely? Would the virus have died/been less powerful by then?

I had these thoughts this morning and purposefully waited 4/5 hours before I put them on here. Reading them now is filling me with less panic than this morning which meant that my tatic kinda worked, however, I have a strong feeling of dread that wont go away. Could anyone comment on my thoughts? And will this feeling of dread pass?

Hannah x

[Guest Smudger]

Not unlikely-impossible. Unless his fingers were gushing blood (which they weren't), you were at no risk-the virus cannot pass through, nor does it live upon, intact skin.

You're doing the right thing by not giving into the need to talk about it right away, but don't think it's something you have to do. If you're scared and upset, you know we're here for you.

[Guest NickNickNick]

Hannah, you are really making things much worse for yourself by ruminating and wondering about all of these what-ifs.

I understand how hard it is to deal with thoughts like these, as I have had this same problem in the past.

You cannot beat OCD by continually running over and over and over and over every what-if situation in your mind.

The truth about what has happened between you and this boy is probably pretty blurry by now anyway, so it is pointless to keep going over things.

If his fingers were inside you, yes you are at a greater risk to contract HIV than if they weren't. That's the truth. Is the risk better than 1/1,000,000? Absolutely not.

The feelings of dread will pass when you accept what happened, allow enough time for the thoughts to pass, and they will completely disappear when you actively pursue fighting back with your OCD. You need to develop your own scripts, expose yourself to anxiety-provoking situations taking small steps and building up to something like handling blood or visiting an HIV clinic.

Allowing yourself to stew in your own thoughts will make things much much worse in the battle against OCD.

I am not discouraging you from posting your fears and worries on the board, as it is a great tool and provides a lot of relief to get the needed support, but you know the facts about HIV, you know the possibility of you having it is extremely low (though still possible) and that there is nothing you can do to change any of what has happened, so you just need to accept it and continue to move on.

Please actively fight back. You can beat OCD.

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hi Nick

Yes I do know the facts. You have just told me that if he put his fingers in, then I would be at greater risk. In the past you have also told me that the pants would have protected me from any semen getting in and that the virus would die in open air anyway. So now I am very confused because I am starting to get calmer and to think well, how would have anything substantial got through, and wouldnt it have died in open air anyway? But now I am being told that it would all change if he put his fingers in me, please explain.

Also, different things work for different people. This anxiety provoking thing may have worked for you, but it doesnt work for me in this situation. If I could expose myself to an anxiety provoking situation which would show me soon that everything would be ok, then I would, but I am gonna have to go months and months thinking about this before I get any answer or proof. Also, as you know this obsession is concerning a life THREATENING disease,a life ALTERING disease, its not just like my old obsessions of catching a coldsore or something so these anxiety provoking scenarioes you are telling me about aren't just making me anxious, they are me up. I can't do anything at the moment in my life. And if these what if's aren't anxiety provoking, I dont know what is.

I cant remember who said it, but I much prefer to deal with it in a seize the day sort of way, to forget about it as much as I can and only allow myself to worry about it for 30 mins a day, but I am not gonna lie Nick, this contradiction in information, (which may be due to me not being exactly clear) has confused me very much, and I would like to be made clear on it please?

Thank you

Hannah x

[Guest NickNickNick]

There is never NO risk in life.

Theorectically, you could contract HIV just by walking down the street and stepping on a nail or something.

The chances of that would be astronomical, but it could happen.

If say, having dry intercourse with someone gives you a one in a billion chance of contracting HIV, then having a guy insert his fingers into your vagina might raise it up to 2 or 3 in a billion. Do you see what I am saying? Statistically, you would be more likely to die in over a million car accidents than to contract HIV in this way.

The fact of the matter is that there really is no statistic that is ever going to make you happy. I could spout off every fact about HIV there is to know, and that would not change the fact that your OCD is what is causing you to over-react.

There is no other way to deal with this than to allow yourself to know that you are constantly at risk for many life-altering situations of varying degrees, no matter what they are, and that there is no point in over-worrying about them until they happen.

I agree you need to handle your OCD in your own effective way, but your way up to this point, at least over this issue, is not working. Try something different.

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hello Nick

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate that you are trying to help, and I also agree with your opinion that I need to find an effective way of dealing with the issue, thanks again,

Hannah x

[Rachie]

Hi Hannah,

I mentioned the 30 mins thing - my previous therapist told me I could only worry/obsess over certain issues for half an hour. It's definitely worth trying! Rather than telling yourself to try not to think about it, you're allowing yourself to think only of that.

I've obsessed over many things in a similar way in the past - the world ending, being hit by a meteorite, catching AIDS, getting cancer, death, what if I was unfaithful, to name a few. Unfortunately these have been mainly before I knew as much as I know now about OCD so I ended up being plagued by my obsessions for days and weeks at a time. Eventually, these thoughts have always gone away on their own but I don't know if I'm unusual/lucky with that.

I do understand how you feel but it really is the uncertainty of things that bother us. Things always seem much worse when they are unknown. IF you did contract HIV, you would deal with it. As others have said, it's no longer the life-threatening illness it was due to the drugs now available for it - I think it's anti-retroviral? I know it's pointless to say to someone in the grip of an obsession "Don't worry about it" but as you know you do need to work on getting at least some control over the OCD.

Is it on your mind all day long? Are you managing to go to your lectures?

One thing I have found helpful when in the grip of a bad bout of OCD is to tell myself "I am having a bad time with my OCD at the moment. These thoughts are caused by my OCD. This bad patch will pass. I can deal with it because I know it is temporary." Don't know if that might help you?

I really hope you can feel better about this soon.

Take care,

Rach x

[Guest hannahmaniac]

Hi Rach, I pretty much am thinking about it all day yes, I'll have a good time forget about it, and then be sad because the thought comes back into my head. I have actually missed some lectures, but also two nights of work because the stress was too much and made me feel ill. I'm just about to embark on my 30 mins, I dont know how it will go and it is scary, cos I'm hoping I will be able to stop it,

Hannah x