need help please

[bendylouise]

I'm trying to push forward and allow things. This is the scenario and I'm just unsure. While washing my face (Which sometimes I have a problem with eg  washing too much or not enough and then doing a compulsion and then getting annoyed and saying I have to do another one at least), I wasn't concentrating on what I was doing (though I know you shouldn't have to) and I was thinking/feeling annoyed about something else and had to sort that I done something wrong and therefore  rinsed again and again and then stopped, and I had a thought before or during this process that I couldn't do things I wanted to do today (difficult things) or even maybe tomorrow.

Is this where I'm going wrong and does it matter that I didn't do the face washing efficiently and got caught up in thoughts and compulsions? Can I Just dismiss all this and how do I treat this? I'm a perfectionist and find mistakes hard to tolerate. Could somebody guide me on the right thing to do please. I feel like I have to go back and rethink it and do some penance before I go on. Is this where I'm going wrong?

[snowbear]

44 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

I feel like I have to go back and rethink it and do some penance before I go on. Is this where I'm going wrong?

I think you know the answer to that one.

You don't have to obey any 'rules' OCD sets- not ever. Rules, such as getting it perfect or doing penance if it's not quite right, are the faulty thinking that keep you stuck. So yes, letting it go/dismissing it is absolutely the right thing to do.

You'll probably feel very unsettled at first, but that's a good thing. Treat those uncomfortable feelings after tolerating a mistake as a sign you're on the right track.

But it's not just resisting the obvious compulsion that you have to do (for example going back and washing your face again.) If you then avoid doing other things that day because you feel unsettled, you're then doing an avoidance compulsion which undoes all the good of resisting the first compulsion to repeat.  

So the full ERP exercise is to resist going back to fix the 'mistake' , not to give yourself any kind of penance, AND to then push on with your day no matter how unfinished things feel. ALL of that is one complete ERP exercise, not just the first part of resisting the rewash.

[bendylouise]

Thank you so much for your reply snowbear.  I'm going to try to take on the advice.   

5 hours ago, bendylouise said:

had to sort that I done something wrong and therefore  rinsed again and again and then stopped, and I had a thought before or during this process that I couldn't do things I wanted to do today (difficult things) or even maybe tomorrow.

The above should be "had the thought", NOT "had to sort" but I don't think it matters to the sense of what I was saying.

 

4 hours ago, snowbear said:

You don't have to obey any 'rules' OCD sets- not ever. Rules, such as getting it perfect or doing penance if it's not quite right, are the faulty thinking that keep you stuck.

In this case I think I was unable to leave my face once I had the thought. And I did what I thought was probably a compulsion e.g. rinsed again. And then I wanted to punish myself not really because my face didn't feel right but because I hadn't concentrated and had messed it up and had to do a compulsion. In this case does the same advice apply? Surely I shouldn't have to concentrate so much and then when I inevitably start doubting I want to be able to dismiss the thoughts.

 

[snowbear]

On 13/06/2022 at 22:46, bendylouise said:

 In this case I think I was unable to leave my face once I had the thought. And I did what I thought was probably a compulsion e.g. rinsed again. And then I wanted to punish myself not really because my face didn't feel right but because I hadn't concentrated and had messed it up and had to do a compulsion. In this case does the same advice apply? Surely I shouldn't have to concentrate so much and then when I inevitably start doubting I want to be able to dismiss the thoughts.

Not feeling able to leave your face because of a thought about imperfection/ self-reproach, or a feeling that it's not quite right is all OCD compelling you to revisit it. Those are the thoughts and feelings you have to resist reacting to.

It is hard.   It's particularly hard where your thinking for a long time has been that you 'have' to redo as a kind of self-punishment because you messed up. And I know, because that was me!

But it's only hard at first and mainly because you're used to finishing every action to perfection before moving on. The only way to teach your brain to feel ok with it is to walk away with the thing feeling unfinished. I found that impossible to do until I challenged the thinking that not getting it right was something that had to be corrected, that if I lost concentration or wasn't paying attention enough to have a clear memory of 'doing it right' that meant it had to be redone.

Of course it means nothing of the sort. Most people go through life not paying attention, not caring whether something is 'just right' or not. Most people don't even have a sense of things ever being just right! They simply do stuff and carry on without giving it a thought.

People like us with 'just right OCD' have to challenge the belief/ thinking that you 'should' be on top of it, you 'ought' to be able to get it done the way you want, and 'ought' to be able to get that safe/ satisfied feeling you crave.

You have to accept that all the 'not quite right feeling' actually means is that you don't feel as safe/comfortable as you're used to feeling. But that discomfort does pass eventually if you just carry on. With practise the discomfort stops happening as your brain gradually learns no harm comes from doing things without checking / being aware/ feeling sure and (yay!) you stop having to concentrate and pay attention while doing everything.

[bendylouise]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Not feeling able to leave your face because of a thought about imperfection/ self-reproach, or a feeling that it's not quite right is all OCD compelling you to revisit it. Those are the thoughts and feelings you have to resist reacting to.

 

yes, absolutely.

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

The only way to teach your brain to feel ok with it is to walk away with the thing feeling unfinished.

Yes, i see that. 

Every day I'm trying to do things (Some nice and some not)and today I was going to buy something nice online. I are usually take ages to decide what to buy and this is what I did today I think mainly because the first one or two things I saw (accessories) were more than I wanted to pay and so I decided to "shop around". It should be okay I get really uncomfortable physically and so I try to do things fairly quickly for this and other reasons.

 I sort of felt I had failed in getting something quickly and easily and like I was wasting time and not doing something more constructive (other maybe more important jobs I've been putting off)  and I ended up with the thought that I could no longer get the thing/s I wanted – today at least. The feeling was strong. I feel guilty for not getting on with things and moving on with other things. At the beginning of my day I find it really hard to be decisive and get going, not doing anything decisive or practical because it's so hard.

Since ‘Messing up" while I was looking online earlier I said I can't do other things today I want to do. I've had a new telephone for six months but still haven't set it up!  It's often true if I don’t start the day well  it's a real struggle, or is this just more teaching myself the wrong pattern of behaviour again? I got on with a few little things yesterday and felt I did what I should be doing and was being normal and productive for a change without incredibly long periods of psyching myself up/avoidance.

 

[snowbear]

12 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

It's often true if I don’t start the day well  it's a real struggle, or is this just more teaching myself the wrong pattern of behaviour again?

Sadly, yes.

A big part of getting past this is to get used to doing things normally even after a bad start.

I do know how hard it is.  I spent years putting things off or limiting what I tackled that day if the first thing I did after getting up went 'wrong'. It took about 6 months of consistent 'feel the dicomfort and do it anyway' to teach my brain not to default to angry/ write-off-the-day mode over the most trivial of things not going to plan. 

Now I'm able to have a really bad start to the day, or even multiple things going 'wrong' through my day and still get on with whatever I wanted to do regardless. I stop myself in my tracks, tell myself I'm using the wrong kind of thinking (using the 'demand' thinking distortion of 'the universe should allow me.../ I 'ought' to be able to...') correct myself and move on without redo-ing anything or doing any kind of compulsions. Well... nearly always anyway

Tbh, I still struggle with the old way of thinking every now and then. My rational brain knows things don't 'have' to be done a certain way, that it's just a preference and that things not being exactly as I like is ok. Rationally I know I don't need to do any kind of self-punishment or correction.

But some days everything goes wrong and I 'lose my temper with the universe'. I've got this quirky thing I do occasionally where if it all gets too much to resist I put one piece of recyclable plastic from the recycling to the rubbish bin for every 'injustice' the universe has done to me that day. Then I can easily let it go of whatever was bugging me and get on with my day. As soon as I'm calmer, I 'forgive' the universe and put the plastic back in the recycling bin!

It's crazy, I know, but it satisfies the 6 year old child in me that's screaming 'Unfair! Unjust! Unkind!'     And it allows me to resist the urge to redo things without getting my 'just right' fix feeling over it - which would undo the progress I've made on changing my behaviour.

The charade with the plastic is of course still a compulsion in itself   but I've now got it down to threatening the universe (god, the powers-that-be, whatever might be listening) with doing it rather than actually doing it. I take a few seconds each time to remind myself the urge to have things my way is distorted thinking, that there's nobody/ nothing listening and all I'm doing is trying to get justice for something that doesn't need justice/ right and wrong applied to it. And I sigh and let it go. Most of the time...

The pause- accept your thinking is distorted and apply-rational-thinking instead- step is vital to making progress. Otherwise my thinking would still be genuinely demanding the universe bends to my will rather than having accepted the world doesn't work as I want to and there is no 'well it blinking well should do!' about it.

I consider myself a work in progress still, though it was a slow start with 2-3 years of thinking rationally and then dismissing the rational thoughts in favour of going back and redo-ing things until I got them just how I wanted anyway.   Since accepting it really was time I applied and stuck with the rational thinking process instead of throwing my toys out of my pram I've moved forward in leaps and bounds.

In short, there are 2 parts to this process:

1. Change your thinking

2. Change your behaviour.

(aka CBT!)

[snowbear]

59 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

I got on with a few little things yesterday and felt I did what I should be doing and was being normal and productive for a change without incredibly long periods of psyching myself up/avoidance.

I meant to say, Well done!  

[bendylouise]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

But some days everything goes wrong and I 'lose my temper with the universe'. I've got this quirky thing I do occasionally where if it all gets too much to resist I put one piece of recyclable plastic from the recycling to the rubbish bin for every 'injustice' the universe has done to me that day. Then I can easily let it go of whatever was bugging me and get on with my day. As soon as I'm calmer, I 'forgive' the universe and put the plastic back in the recycling bin!

 

Ha, yes I totally get this and I do similarish thing. In my case though I tend to blame myself take it out on myself not the universe. That's even more crazy. Thanks for telling me that snowbear. I am terrified that I might do some things and then not be able to live with them.

 

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

A big part of getting past this is to get used to doing things normally even after a bad start.

Yes - no matter what the bad start is. Just to do what you want to do when you want to do it is my goal.

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Rationally I know I don't need to do any kind of self-punishment or correction.

I struggle really hard with this. I feel like if I could work really hard at something physical (which is very difficult given my physical problems) then I could feel better about doing things I want to do. But I'm guessing that is irrational as working really hard is something I want to do and I'm denied this, so that is "punishment" in itself. And then when I don't work hard mentally, I blame myself for this too. Feel so guilty for not doing things today so much so that I want to deny myself doing them tomorrow. 

 

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

The pause- accept your thinking is distorted and apply-rational-thinking instead- step is vital to making progress

I have done this on a few occasions (especially yesterday) but couldnt earlier today and i dont want to get too stuck again.

Well done yourself with how you've done, it's one hell of a journey we are on.

Edited June 15, 2022 by bendylouise

[bendylouise]

Today I thought that my arm was dirty after putting it in the bin to move something and I was frightened of looking at my arm. I failed to recognise any faulty thinking and I was very nervous about what to do.  I left it for a while but then started looking at my arm and then started looking at the inside of the washing up glove I'd put the arm into. I've now stopped after doing several compulsions eg rechecking, Numbers and more and now though i've stopped I don't feel clean i.e. I didn't finish the compulsions. I wish I'd never done any in the first place (obviously). I don't know if I should've just looked at my arm once or just assumed that my thinking was wrong because I didn't actually feel anything on my arm. I was getting ready to go out and that's why I was more nervous i think.

Of course now I'm worried because I'm going out soon and might get a chance to go near a few shops and was hoping to look for something small to buy. I'm now very stressed about this and the fact that my arm etc might not be clean. I don't think i was dirty in the first place so jshould ust go ahead and buy what I want ignoring the fact that I slipped up and did some compulsions. It's difficult and I could really do with some support  please.

I and my things feel horrible and dirty and I did compultions and didn't even finish them properly.

[snowbear]

2 hours ago, bendylouise said:

I did compultions and didn't even finish them properly.

Hey - you tried not to do them and when you couldn't resist completely you left them unfinished. That's huge! Well done you for making a start.

Be proud of what you achieved and focus on the achievement angle rather than the 'gave in' angle. Then you can build on this begining.

[bendylouise]

But I couldn't stand it, I wanted to try and fix it before I went out I so i did some more (compulsions). I told myself everything is okay (another compulsion) But I wasn't happy and then I went out. I had been unable to get my thinking right.

I tried to buy something when I was out but I couldn't. i threatened myself and tried to use numbers to help but I couldn't do it.  I feel like I'm back to square one and I haven't achieved anything. I hate myself and things still feel unclean. Once I've put ice on my back and soaked my feet in cool water I'm going to bed. Don't know how i'll cope tomorrow.

[snowbear]

1 hour ago, bendylouise said:

Don't know how i'll cope tomorrow.

Treat it as a fresh start. Draw a line under today, the good the bad, the self-recrimination - all of it.

Start again tomorrow. If you manage to resist some compulsions great! Are you likely to be able to resist them all? Almost certainly not, you're human! It takes time. Build on it, little by little, day by day.

Celebrate the moments of clear thinking and insight, let go of the times you know your thinking went OCD/awol. No recriminations.

You wouldn't punish a toddler every time they fell over while learning to walk. This is no different. Teaching your brain to think differently takes time, effort and repetition. Just keep at it. You're doing well just by moving out of your comfort zone and into the zone of 'willing to try'.

[bendylouise]

Thanks Snowbear

6 hours ago, snowbear said:

Treat it as a fresh start.

I get what you mean about leaving it behind i.e. no recriminations but what do I do about still not feeling clean and the avoidance this still produces? Can i leave it all behind with my knowlege that it was all unnecessary? The only question for me is that I should've looked at my arm immediately to see there was nothing there and therefore there could've been something there. I don't think it should really matter but I'm frightened of horrible substances (not germs) from the bin getting onto my skin. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by bendylouise

[snowbear]

I know it would horrify you to do it, but you could rub your arms with handfuls of stuff from the bin every day for the rest of your life and it wouldn't do you any harm. OCD always convinces us the risk is real, the unclean feeling ought to be washed off, and so on. But it's not germs or chemicals that's the problem here, only the idea in your head that you've taken a risk you shouldn't have taken.

Well done for NOT looking at your arm! That was the right thing to do. Next time, don't look AND don't worry about it.

[bendylouise]

5 hours ago, snowbear said:

Well done for NOT looking at your arm! That was the right thing to do. Next time, don't look AND don't worry about it.

So that was progress. I always worry that it might cause bigger problems later on i.e. more checking and avoidance compulsions to feel right. But I think something has changed here because i know my thinking in the first place was skewed and I'm taking action to stop it. 

 

5 hours ago, snowbear said:

it's not germs or chemicals that's the problem here, only the idea in your head that you've taken a risk you shouldn't have taken.

 

Absolutely, that's the problem, taking risks I feel I shouldn't. But it isn't a risk is it - that's what I've got to understand/absorb. I deliberately damaged my skin decades ago and want to avoid getting certain stuff on my skin because I think that will make it worse so that's where that started. 

[bendylouise]

I managed to let yesterday's stuff go and even bought something for myself when I went out locally (very small, very cheap) which was good.

Today i had a problen at sink while i was washing my face where i thought i had touched my head on hand washing liquid bottle. I carried on with the last rinse of my face, not doing extra rinses because i assumed i had got dirty though i wanted to cos bottle cant be clean cos i touch it with dirty hands.

I only looked at hands anf face once i think while at my dressing table afterwards. I have felt unclean all day but not done any overt compulsions and hope i'll get used to it. I'm not sure whether I'm really avoiding doing some other things now, which as snowbear said before is cancelling out the original work, but I'm hoping that tomorrow i will feel stronger and better.

[snowbear]

You're doing brilliantly, Louise.

As you say, something has changed in that you are now able to take a step back from it and see it's skewed thinking. So then you're willing to fight against the thoughts and urges.

Keep up the good work.

[bendylouise]

I'm afraid that night (Sunday) I could not cope with it so i did a load more compulsions before bed to feel ok. Makes me wonder if I'll ever be good enough. I think I'm trying to solve impossible problems and my thinking needs to change a lot more about a lot more things and situations.  My constant physical problems make it so much harder to keep busy and active.

I know I need to get organised and to see patterns in my thoughts/behaviour. I need help with this but I really want and need to succeed now. I also know I have to be patient and not expect to do it perfectly and to work hard. I find it so hard to remember all I've read and learned so that I can move forward better. And after all these years it's gonna take a lot of doing to find new ways of thinking and also to accept that I don't need to think or worry when doing ordinary things.

I caught myself today doing something naturally without worrying and I realised that I wasn't doing it by my rules and therefore was "in danger". This caused problems and more compulsions and me thinking again – why didn't I concentrate more? This is obviously a pattern when I don't concentrate on things that I feel I need to do/do in a certain way. Each time it causes what feels like huge problem and I try to think it through. There are so many things, so many layers. I feel like my whole existence is sort of contrived in a way. 

If you're still here, thanks for reading, it helps me to try to understand it by posting here.

 

 

[snowbear]

1 minute ago, bendylouise said:

Makes me wonder if I'll ever be good enough.

Of course you will. Setbacks are par for the course. Don't think of it as failure, just as 'I'm getting there slower than I'd like' 

You've recognised and truly accepted your thinking and behaviour has to change. That's HUGE!!!

And you're trying. That's even HUGE-er!!!! 

Do you realise how many people think they're doing fine and yet they've still to take these two vital steps. Steps that you've recently taken. So you are doing really, really well.

Trust me.

Keep going. Don't despair and don't give up. Let go of any 'mistakes', 'failures' and bad days without missing a heartbeat. It will get easier.

 

[bendylouise]

Thanks Snowbear for your great advice and encouragement 

I had another situation yesterday late afternoon and it's only now on that I can look at it clearly. I always shake my mat (before I fold it up and put it away) twice (to Keep it clean and therefore keep me safe) yesterday I either didn't do the second one or didn't do it properly and therefore got caught doing it a few times, then left it. Once again I was annoyed with myself because I didn't know if I'd done it properly and it didn't seem like skewed thinking because it's something I always do and I hadn't made a conscious decision to not do it. But the worst thing is because ofAt the same time as this happened I had the thought I couldn't do things because of it and i couldn't get rid of this feeling,and it feels so strong . – so this was the avoidance compulsion.  I think my guard was down because I've had quite a successful first part of the day.

I tried to work out when I could do things again  and couldn't and I just had to leave it. Now today I've used the mat okay but I'm still avoiding other things. I've said that on Friday if not before, I can allow things again but it's so happens a very unusual situation has happened and I wish so much that I could do things before Friday. It's a nightmare and I'm getting headaches day after day.

[snowbear]

Sounds like trying to do so much at once is stressing you out. What if you took it in smaller steps? This thing you want to get done before Friday,  could you set yourself part of the task for tomorrow so you've at least made a start on it? Rather than giving in to the magical thinking that 'Friday you're allowed' (for whatever reason.) Once you achieve that then give yourself the rest of the day to do - or to not do - whatever you want.

Aim to go against one skewed thinking thing per day and as long as you axhieve that you're 'allowed' to avoid stuff the rest of that day.

As you get more used to going against the skewed thinking/ magical thinking and it's less physically stressful (not so many stress headaches etc) then you could step it up to a whole day.

Just a thought.

Main thing is to keep at it. Keep labelling the skewed up thinking for what it is, even if ultimately you give in to it now and then. 

Remember, instant and easy self-forgiveness for any slips. No punishment. Regroup and start over. 

[bendylouise]

Thanks for the ideas Snowbear. I have the same fight every day which is how long will I be able to do/buy what I want. It is a race when I feel alright to do/get anything I need/want.  I've had a few days quite a number of times now where I have been able to allow things and have kept it going (lately due to progress more than gritted teeth and holding my breath).

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Main thing is to keep at it. Keep labelling the skewed up thinking for what it is, even if ultimately you give in to it now and then. 

 

Apart from if i am thinking things are really "Dirty" and I have to do horrible compulsions which I hate with all my being, the worst thing is when I have a thought that I can't do something I want to do. This usually happens when something else goes wrong as explained. It's like a consequence of something going wrong and I spend my life trying to get out of this. It is only a thought though and I shouldn't be punishing myself fbecause that in itself is skewed thinking isnt it?

Magical thinking eg having thought i could not do/buy what i want is skewed thinking and therefore I should take note of this and go against it even though my mind HAD NOT YET dealt with the thing before it ie the shaking the mat thing which led to it?

 

 

 

[snowbear]

22 hours ago, bendylouise said:

It is only a thought though and I shouldn't be punishing myself fbecause that in itself is skewed thinking isnt it?

Magical thinking eg having thought i could not do/buy what i want is skewed thinking and therefore I should take note of this and go against it even though my mind HAD NOT YET dealt with the thing before it ie the shaking the mat thing which led to it?

 

Yup and yup. All skewed thinking. You only need one rule to deal with all of this. 'When I've identified it as skewed thinking I'm allowed to move on without ever resolving any part of it.'

[bendylouise]

21 hours ago, snowbear said:

Yup and yup. All skewed thinking. You only need one rule to deal with all of this. 'When I've identified it as skewed thinking I'm allowed to move on without ever resolving any part of it.'

That's really useful. I couldn't  work that out and now I have to work on absorbing it I think and practising it.  I nearly ordered some things today but I got spooked, thought too much (rumination/skewed thinking again) during the long time I was browsing and the amount of looking on the computer made my head/eyestrain come on again so I've left it for today cause I can't cope with any more.

Sometimes not making my mind up more quickly and wanting everything to be perfect gets in the way as well. I always want the best bargain/best option and often a quick decision would be better not only in the short term but in the long run too. Also I suppose that it's so rare and such a mental effort to actually get anything  that when I do I go over the top a bit ? 

It's my birthday soon and a friend came round with a pressie today Yesterday I had thought I couldn't have a pressie because I couldn't do things and that is included and it was all so miserable. I think I can see now that it's skewed thinking and therefore I have to step back from it. I still can't go ahead with my order today 'tho and in my mind i think if i can open and accept the present then i can order things so I will leave it and try to accept things tomorrow.

I've had so many headaches this week and today I didn't have one - my head was totally clear which was why I was able to spend an hour I think looking at stuff on the computer. Now the headache is back and I'm annoyed with myself for bringing it on. And I didn't even get anything.

[snowbear]

If I had a pound for every time I've put things off or limited what I 'could' do because of skewed OCD thinking I'd be a millionaire several times over.

When I started breaking the rules my OCD thinking had created the first thing I noticed was how many more hours there were in a day that you could use to get things done. Stuff that had once taken me weeks to achieve (thinking, planning, putting it off, replanning...) took anything from a few minutes to an hour to complete. And nowhere near as stressful as doing it 'the old way'.

Biggest one I had to overcome was 'I can't do anything after dark'.   Winters were especially tough. If I wasn't up and doing at dawn it was dark before I knew it and I'd 'have to' put things off until the next day. I made myself suffer needlessly for a decade even though the whole of that time I kept my lights on in the house 24/7 just so I'd never get caught in the dark! The illogicality of 'needing' daylight as if the lightbulb had never been invented and simultaneously paying extortionate electric bills.

OCD would be hilarious if only we didn't take it's 'rules' so seriously. 

Keep fighting against doing what that skewed thinking demands of you.