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Am I allowed to forgive myself for these thoughts?


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Hello everyone, 

Do you think I'm allowed to forgive myself for the thoughts on purpose that I've had if I truly and deeply regret having them? 

I've developed a new 'theme' recently, (about racism), and I've already had a few thoughts on purpose in relation to it. What happened was that I was having a thought, realised it was bad but felt curious and excited to carry on with it so I did. Of course, I deeply regret that now.

I'm not sure if I deserve self forgiveness. But at the same time if I let myself going down the rabbit hole by trying to understand why these deliberate thoughts happen, I'll end up in horrible state. 

I'm really sorry if I've upset anyone (this is what my brain is telling me at the moment). 

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Thought crime isn't a real crime (yet, anyway) so what is to forgive?

Our thoughts and opinions change all the time so to spend time regretting or analysing our past thoughts would be very time consuming and counter productive.

If you regret something, then you have already moved on in a sense anyway.

I would say though that these thoughts probably mean nothing anyway and your response to them is what's causing you problems. Leave them be and try to move on with your life 🙂

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3 hours ago, Cora said:

I'm really sorry if I've upset anyone (this is what my brain is telling me at the moment). 

I can say that you are certainly not upsetting me and I wonder why you keep feeling that you need to apologise.  I too can have random thoughts that are meaningless and of no value.

What do I do? 

  1. Put the thought in bin
  2. Fix my mind on some positive activity

What positive and benefical things might you do?

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Thank you, @Symps07, @northpaul and @Angst

4 hours ago, northpaul said:

What positive and benefical things might you do?

 

3 hours ago, Angst said:

I agree with the other two contributors - switch your attention. Do something enjoyable!

I find it very hard to do something enjoyable and positive at the moment. I feel very stressed because this is just one of the many obsessions I currently have - there are about 5 and they are extremely exhausting, especially the possibility of me being a psycopath/sadist and a pervert. On top of that, I have my dissertation to work on, which is going terribly bad, and two other assignments; and they all have to be completed within less than 2 weeks. 

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22 minutes ago, Cora said:

I have my dissertation to work on, which is going terribly bad, and two other assignments; and they all have to be completed within less than 2 weeks. 

Surely that is a positive and benefical thing to do.  Would you agree that is one place where you can concentrate your mind?

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Cora, this is yet another attempt by you to get reassurance from us. It is your latest attempt in a long list of reassurance seeking attempts going back years. 

It is damaging for you and unfair to us. You are stuck and the reason is you won't change. Every time you get a thought you react the same way. You race here, you explain, you apologize, you wait for reassurance. Over and over again. Usually daily. 

Everyone here is cognizant of your reassurance seeking and is taking pains not to give it. Because they know it is the last thing you need.

You must, you must, start changing the way you react to your obsessions. Don't run here to explain, apologize and wait for reassurance. Bite the bullet. Resist. Turn your attention onto something else.

It doesn't matter if you think you purposefully think the thoughts. It doesn't matter if you feel bad about yourself. What matters is that you begin to change, take a different course, screw up your compulsions. Try, try and try again. Eventually you will get it right. 

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Cora.....I notice that your other thread was locked and you've started yet another seeking reassurance.  Please try and turn this around and look for support on ways forward to stop using compulsions as a way to deal with your doubt & anxiety.  Something has  to change,  we're here  (and happy) to support in a positive way but not to let this facility be one that keeps you well and truly stuck in this destructive cycle.  You've been assured so many times by professionals & other sufferers.....it's down to you noyou must start to take that advise on board.......despite the doubt you feel.  I'll leave the thread for now but it needs a change from you or it will be locked again for your own good

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Hi @PolarBearand @Caramoole

Thank you so much for replying. 

9 hours ago, PolarBear said:

It doesn't matter if you think you purposefully think the thoughts.

This matters to me. And I know the answer is to just not think thoughts on purpose but that comes almost as in impulse and it seems like a normal, natural reaction of my mind so even if I try hard enough, I still do it. These thoughts stem from somewhere very rotten and I'm simply disgusted and scared of myself. 

7 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Cora.....I notice that your other thread was locked and you've started yet another seeking reassurance.

Caramoole, I asked snowbear to remove my post (I tried messaging you as well but it didn't work) because I kept reading it and realised I shared too many awful details. 

I'm really struggling today. Every other hour my 'themes'/obsessions/worries switch between them and I find it hard to function. I have an assignment to submit today and I'm only half way through. There's this thought about my parents having sex that I keep thinking about - I feel no disgust towards it, more like curiosity and pleasure. And then there's also the sadist/psycopath worry. And then thinking about all the moments I had a thought or a sensation and then did something physical in response to that - I know the acts themselves, such as petting the dog, touching your brother's arm, looking at someone, are not abusive or harmful but I'm still concerned about their intentions and circumstances. There's also seeing something on TV about a child and then having a 15 minutes paedophilia moment where you feel an arousal, smile, feel like you are enjoying it. And then there's racism as well. And so many more. I feel abnormal and I want it to stop. 

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1 hour ago, Cora said:

This matters to me. And I know the answer is to just not think thoughts on purpose

The answer is to keep thinking 'this doesn't matter'. 

Even when your whole being is screaming back at you that it does, you tell yourself repeatedly, 'it doesnt matter,  it's OCD'. 

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1 hour ago, Cora said:

This matters to me. And I know the answer is to just not think thoughts on purpose but that comes almost as in impulse and it seems like a normal, natural reaction of my mind so even if I try hard enough, I still do it.

Cora, what you're describing as "thinking thoughts on purpose" is obsessive thinking--you know, the "O" in OCD. This is one of the core features of OCD, and every single person with OCD experiences it. For example, my OCD tends to revolve around my health, and when my anxiety is bad I find myself repeatedly thinking about and scanning my body for weird sensations, twitches, whatever. I hate it so much, yet it feels like I seek it out and just can't help it despite really trying. Sometimes it's so bad that I don't want to sit still because I fear I'll start thinking about and scanning my body! The only difference here is that I don't see my obsessive thoughts as reflective of some kind of moral failing, but you do, hence your post.

This is why sometimes people here say that you have "low insight" with your OCD--because even after many explanations, you're twisting one of the key diagnostic features of OCD (obsessive thinking) into another source of "evidence" that you're a horrible, bad person, blah blah blah. Please talk to your therapist about this. Have you considered showing them your posts on this forum? Perhaps they'd give your psychologist more insight into your state of mind and beliefs. 

 

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Thank you, @Bev53and @Saffron37.

2 hours ago, Saffron37 said:

For example, my OCD tends to revolve around my health, and when my anxiety is bad I find myself repeatedly thinking about and scanning my body for weird sensations, twitches, whatever. I hate it so much, yet it feels like I seek it out and just can't help it despite really trying.

I think mine comes in a different shape. I don't think I can explain it clearly but it almost feels like it's part of my personality/character. Sometimes I don't even feel anxious and it still happens. For example, I could look at my boyfriend's face while talking to him and then I randomly think to myself that I want to imagine something horrible about him or harming him in a grotesque way. And then I do it. I think about it. I imagine it. Which means I invite the terrible thoughts in and I go with them. But it's not happening to test myself or my reaction to them - and I'm completely sure about that. The anxiety only comes after. It feels very evil. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense. 

Edited by Cora
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And another thing to add. Sometimes, right before I have the thoughts, there is this feeling of excitement/curiosity/(sick) desire so it's almost like I want the thought to pursue the feeling in some way or another. 

I sound twisted and screwed up, don't I? 

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3 hours ago, Cora said:

I sound twisted and screwed up, don't I? 

I strongly suggest you re-read Saffron's post, Cora.

 

5 hours ago, Saffron37 said:

This is why sometimes people here say that you have "low insight" with your OCD--because even after many explanations, you're twisting one of the key diagnostic features of OCD (obsessive thinking) into another source of "evidence" that you're a horrible, bad person, blah blah blah. Please talk to your therapist about this. Have you considered showing them your posts on this forum? Perhaps they'd give your psychologist more insight into your state of mind and beliefs. 

And you proved that very point with your reply above. :(

How can we help you to see past the content of your thoughts and your obsession with 'doing it on purpose' to where you recognise that it's  your interpretation of your thoughts which is the problem.

Every theme you've had has been the same - a screwed up/ twisted interpretation of what your thoughts mean.

This seems to be a complex idea for you to grasp so talking it through one-on-one with your therapist is ideal.

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38 minutes ago, Cora said:

I think mine comes in a different shape. I don't think I can explain it clearly but it almost feels like it's part of my personality/character. 

As I said in my first reply, the only difference is that you assign a moral value to your thoughts and I do not. You attribute your thoughts to who you are as a person and I do not. The reason that you can't explain it clearly is because it doesn't make any sense. Personally, I've found that to be a good indicator of an OCD emotion--when I can't explain it clearly but it just feels so real. 

40 minutes ago, Cora said:

Sometimes I don't even feel anxious and it still happens. For example, I could look at my boyfriend's face while talking to him and then I randomly think to myself that I want to imagine something horrible about him or harming him in a grotesque way. And then I do it. I think about it. I imagine it. Which means I invite the terrible thoughts in and I go with them.

You've literally just described obsessive thinking. That's what obsessive thinking is, Cora. It's feeling unable to stop yourself from thinking about, ruminating over, dwelling on thoughts of a certain topic. It doesn't mean the thoughts just ambush you like someone jumping from behind a garbage can. It's feeling like you yourself are seeking those things out! Again, you're making this about who you are as a person, saying that you "invite" the "terrible" thoughts in.

Here's a clinically reviewed definition of obsessive thinking:

"Obsessive thinking is a series of thoughts that typically recur, often paired with negative judgements. Many times there is an inability to control these persistent, distressing thoughts and the severity can range from mild but annoying, to all-encompassing and debilitating."

Sound familiar?

47 minutes ago, Cora said:

But it's not happening to test myself or my reaction to them - and I'm completely sure about that.

Right, because those thoughts are obsessions, not compulsions. Again, obsessive thinking.

50 minutes ago, Cora said:

The anxiety only comes after. It feels very evil.

I'm assuming the "smoking gun" here is that you think you ought to feel anxious instantaneously upon having the thought? Honey, your brain is tired. Think about how many intrusive thoughts you have per day. Think about the workout you're constantly putting your stress response through. Being that anxious that often is absolutely exhausting--I know first hand and I know you do too! Your body simply cannot become that worked up that frequently. Plus, after a while, even the most distressing thoughts become background noise. When there's no actual consequence to a scary thought aside from the scariness, your brain eventually will desensitize.

51 minutes ago, Cora said:

And another thing to add. Sometimes, right before I have the thoughts, there is this feeling of excitement/curiosity/(sick) desire so it's almost like I want the thought to pursue the feeling in some way or another. 

The curiosity and desire you are describing is another way of describing obsessive thinking. And as you've had explained to you before, the anxiety/stress response is the exact same response as "excitement". It's all the stress response, just with different interpretations. You're relabeling the same thing in different ways to cast yourself in the worst possible light.

Do you see what's going on here? In your responses to me you described obsessively thinking in like four different ways, and also added a couple of self-loathing comments just to reinforce how terrible you are and how much you feel like your thoughts are representative of who you are as a person. Which is exactly what I said you were doing. You gave no new information. Your OCD may trick you but to us it's as transparent as a 5-year-old trying to convince his Mom that he wasn't the one who broke the cookie jar while having crumbs all over his face.

 

 

 

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Cora, I swear there can't be any more explanations, we could give to you. There are HUNDREDS of explanations, and it seems to me like, as if you STILL don't understand OCD at all. I tried to give you so many examples, even from my own suffering, but instead of taking the essence out of my posts, which is basically "Oh, seems like as if I'm interpreting everything just the worst possible way. I have to change that.", you keep bringing up new stuff, which are supposedly "evident", that you're a bad human being. 

For me, it is 100% clear that your very core problem is, that your interpretations of your intrusive thoughts are completely off. You actually take OCD's falsely interpreted perception of things as truth, which is then why you keep asking for reassurance, instead of dismissing every new intrusive thought you experience as OCD. And because intrusive thoughts do come in a thousand shapes and because we can't give you the one explanation, that explains every possible intrusive thought in the world with one post, you keep posting about your newest variation of intrusive thoughts and how they make you bad and so on. It's really tragic. 

I didn't even know about the obsessive thinking stuff @Saffron37 just wrote about. I also didn't know that the anxiety and stress response is the exact same as excitement, which is why we are so often confused about our thoughts and whether we actually liked them or not. Good to know. But I guess it's just another explanation which you can't accept for yourself, because of how strong OCD's doubting game is on you.

I agree, with everybody else here, that you should bring this up in your next therapy session. This might be crucial for your recovery.

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I'm not sure how many more ways we can explain this to you.  You have doctors, therapists, other sufferers explaining that ALL of these thoughts and "type" of thoughts are OCD......you explain why they're not.  No-one you've encountered is remotely concerned by anything you've said.  Why do you think that is?

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