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How do you know if something is OCD or Schizophrenia?


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Hi all,

I'm not really sure how to explain this in a way that really makes it sound exactly as I'm experiencing it. For quite a while now, when I have been getting periods of OCD issues, the way it operates is different from how it was the last couple of years. Let me explain;

In the past with OCD, I had a certain obsession and would be scared of having done something or doing something regarding the OCD theme. I would do CBT, exposure or just trying to give it the least amount of attention as possible and eventually it would fade.

As of the last 1 - 2 years, something else has been starting to get a part of these OCD 'cycles'. As in that whatever the OCD theme is there is a sort of 'overall supernatural truth or omni truth attached to it' I don't hear voices or see things there are not, it presents itself more as just the absolute truth which will be present forever!

The issue with this sense of truth that cannot be changed or doubted is that it seems to make all efforts of CBT / ERP etc. Meaningless.

In the past, CBT / ERP etc. would help because you somehow deep down knew things were not the way OCD makes them seem like they are. But that small gap of 'knowing it deep down' has actually disappeared, or at least that's how it feels, I don't know anymore deep down. Because honestly there is no-one on this planet that can know anything for a 100% certainty. Maybe 99.9999% but now a complete full 100% 

My last terrible OCD theme was existential OCD, and feel that specific theme has propelled this feeling of 'absolute truth'.

I don't know anymore actually, maybe it's OCD that has formed itself in another way to get to me? maybe it has decided to hijack this one thing I used against it to somehow be able to do therapy etc. 

I do remember that my OCD is weird in a way because I remember that when I used my children as a motivation to stop my compulsions and ruminating, the OCD attacked my children by stating; Your children will go to hell or burn in eternity if you don't comply.

I'm scared that I'm falling into some kind of schizophrenic disorder, and because of that ill possibly be getting voices, commands that I should kill my children.

I dont know anymore if this is just OCD?

 

Edited by Ironborn
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1 hour ago, Ironborn said:

Hi all,

I'm not really sure how to explain this in a way that really makes it sound exactly as I'm experiencing it. For quite a while now, when I have been getting periods of OCD issues, the way it operates is different from how it was the last couple of years. Let me explain;

In the past with OCD, I had a certain obsession and would be scared of having done something or doing something regarding the OCD theme. I would do CBT, exposure or just trying to give it the least amount of attention as possible and eventually it would fade.

As of the last 1 - 2 years, something else has been starting to get a part of these OCD 'cycles'. As in that whatever the OCD theme is there is a sort of 'overall supernatural truth or omni truth attached to it' I don't hear voices or see things there are not, it presents itself more as just the absolute truth which will be present forever!

The issue with this sense of truth that cannot be changed or doubted is that it seems to make all efforts of CBT / ERP etc. Meaningless.

In the past, CBT / ERP etc. would help because you somehow deep down knew things were not the way OCD makes them seem like they are. But that small gap of 'knowing it deep down' has actually disappeared, or at least that's how it feels, I don't know anymore deep down. Because honestly there is no-one on this planet that can know anything for a 100% certainty. Maybe 99.9999% but now a complete full 100% 

My last terrible OCD theme was existential OCD, and feel that specific theme has propelled this feeling of 'absolute truth'.

I don't know anymore actually, maybe it's OCD that has formed itself in another way to get to me? maybe it has decided to hijack this one thing I used against it to somehow be able to do therapy etc. 

I do remember that my OCD is weird in a way because I remember that when I used my children as a motivation to stop my compulsions and ruminating, the OCD attacked my children by stating; Your children will go to hell or burn in eternity if you don't comply.

I'm scared that I'm falling into some kind of schizophrenic disorder, and because of that ill possibly be getting voices, commands that I should kill my children.

I dont know anymore if this is just OCD?

 

Is this or isn't OCD is such a great trick by OCD. When all else fails, why not make you question whether or not you really have OCD. Intrusive thoughts can sound like commands to do something or that you are going to do something. These are just thoughts though, they mean nothing. They indicate nothing.

 

Maybe you do have Schizophrenia, maybe you don't, why do you need to figure it out? Is there an urgency in trying to work this out? That's generally a sign your stuck in an OCD cycle. Worst thing you can do is do compulsions to get certainty or reduce anxiety.

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4 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Is this or isn't OCD is such a great trick by OCD. When all else fails, why not make you question whether or not you really have OCD. Intrusive thoughts can sound like commands to do something or that you are going to do something. These are just thoughts though, they mean nothing. They indicate nothing.

 

Maybe you do have Schizophrenia, maybe you don't, why do you need to figure it out? Is there an urgency in trying to work this out? That's generally a sign your stuck in an OCD cycle. Worst thing you can do is do compulsions to get certainty or reduce anxiety.

Well the urgency for me is mostly because of my kids, I'm somehow scared that the thoughts / commands may cause me to harm my 2 sons, now every time I think of them I try to imagine if I could do anything, I keep telling myself... no matter how crazy I'm going to get will I be able to intercept myself from doing anything harmful?

It just really hurts, and I keep feeling like I need to burst out crying right now, every Thursday I stay at home to pend the day with my 2 sons, will I still be able to do so? am I a danger to them on that day?

I'm already seeing how this is going to play out. I get diagnosed with schizo. Then ill need to be taken into a mental hospital away from my wife and children away from my job, my children will miss me, cry for me. I'll lose my job because I'm not there, and my family has to move out of our new bought house due to our mortgage not being paid. Meanwhile, I'm not recovering, and our entire family is collapsing...

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Symptoms of schizophrenia include social withdrawal, lack of motivation, being somewhat flat emotionally, not be able to find pleasure in life. These are called ‘negative symptoms’. There are surprisingly akin to depression. When people talk about having schizophrenia they tend to talk about the ‘positive symptoms’ such as having hallucinations and delusions. It is strange vocabulary ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ symptoms but it is the way the symptoms are described.

You say that you don’t hear voices or have other types of hallucinations such as visual, tactile, smell. Hallucinations are common especially with bereavement. But you seem to have an unusual belief. A delusion about supernatural truth. Sometimes the divide between an obsession and delusion is blurred. A delusion is an unusual belief held with certainty and not  prone to any rational analysis.

Most people with schizophrenia are not in hospital. Many were many decades ago. Nowadays there wouldn’t be the beds. You are catastrophising  on a very biased notion of what schizophrenia is. And the supposed economic and emotional consequences of such a diagnosis.
 

I think the idea has popped into your head. You need to let it go.

 

 

Edited by Angst
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I am not going to enter into debate about wether this is OCD, Schizophrenia of even something else.  However I will signpost readers to the following NHS site that explains the basic diagnostic methods for Schizophrenia:  https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/diagnosis/

If in doubt consult a Medical professional.

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2 hours ago, Ironborn said:

Well the urgency for me is mostly because of my kids, I'm somehow scared that the thoughts / commands may cause me to harm my 2 sons, now every time I think of them I try to imagine if I could do anything, I keep telling myself... no matter how crazy I'm going to get will I be able to intercept myself from doing anything harmful?

It just really hurts, and I keep feeling like I need to burst out crying right now, every Thursday I stay at home to pend the day with my 2 sons, will I still be able to do so? am I a danger to them on that day?

I'm already seeing how this is going to play out. I get diagnosed with schizo. Then ill need to be taken into a mental hospital away from my wife and children away from my job, my children will miss me, cry for me. I'll lose my job because I'm not there, and my family has to move out of our new bought house due to our mortgage not being paid. Meanwhile, I'm not recovering, and our entire family is collapsing...

I agree with @northpaul generally, but I'd also like to add in general, at least for me, regardless if it is or isn't something, what I had to do with OCD was accept either I'd be taken to a mental hospital or I had OCD. You may have schizophrenia, you may not, but if you do go and see someone, you take the risk, in a good way of getting your mental health back on track. No one bar a medical professional can say whether you or don't have schizophrenia but if you feel like you are struggling with your mental health, I would go and see someone to try and work on that. To me, the only worst case scenario is that by not seeking treatment and not having the skills to deal with whatever you may be dealing with, it only gets worse over time. That may help or not, I'm not sure to be honest but hopefully it is helpful.

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From what I understand they’re at opposite ends of the mental health spectrum, OCD is excessive rigidity in the brain and thought patterns, schizophrenia and psychosis are extreme chaos. It’s unlikely you’d have both and if you had schizophrenia, you wouldn’t be obsessing about it. I think they’re sort of mutually exclusive in that sense 

Edited by OB1UK
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5 hours ago, Ironborn said:

Well the urgency for me is mostly because of my kids, I'm somehow scared that the thoughts / commands may cause me to harm my 2 sons, now every time I think of them I try to imagine if I could do anything, I keep telling myself... no matter how crazy I'm going to get will I be able to intercept myself from doing anything harmful?

It just really hurts, and I keep feeling like I need to burst out crying right now, every Thursday I stay at home to pend the day with my 2 sons, will I still be able to do so? am I a danger to them on that day?

I'm already seeing how this is going to play out. I get diagnosed with schizo. Then ill need to be taken into a mental hospital away from my wife and children away from my job, my children will miss me, cry for me. I'll lose my job because I'm not there, and my family has to move out of our new bought house due to our mortgage not being paid. Meanwhile, I'm not recovering, and our entire family is collapsing...

This is OCD.  This is literally what OCD does.  You may ask me how I know and I will say to you that last week I had a sore left boob because my period was late due to having corona virus.  That is a thing that happens.  I then convinced myself that my left boob was abnormally lumpy because I was poking around at it because it hurt.  Which led me down the spiral of poking myself till I hurt and imagining all the stuff that was going to happen.  I've got cancer, I'm going to have to have my tit cuts off and radiotherapy/chemo, oh my god that's it for me I'll be too old to have a kid by the time it's all been dealt with, my parents are going to be upset and disappointed, what if I die and leave my partner by himself that would just be awful, but wait what if I don't have cancer and I'm just being insane and wasting everyone's time, what if the doctor gets mad at me and hates me, oh god I'm a terrible person who just can't get a grip on herself and I just worry everyone all the time etc etc. Because OCD does that - it takes you out of now and propels you into the worst possible future you can imagine without any sort of stop over in 'you know, maybe this is fine and I don't need to worry'.  

Suffice to say I do not have cancer.  I made an appointment with my very understanding doctor who talked me through how to do a proper breast exam and checked me out for anything suspicious.  I was fine.  I felt like an utter ****** but a cancer free ****** who is trying to understand how her brain works and why it is trying to convince her there is something wrong and who can communicate that clearly to an outside part even when I am in the depths of an absolute ******* freak out.  It's a pain in the tits but it's worth putting in the work to get there so you're not spending every minute of your day convincing yourself the worst possible thing is going to happen.

So the next time you're spending that quality time with your kids try to stay there, in that moment with them instead of ruminating off into some ridiculous future that is never going to happen.  You clearly have a very specific set of fears (as do we all) that you need to be addressing with a professional who can safely talk you through the past trauma you're carrying around and help you pick apart how those fears are fuelling your OCD.  Because they very clearly are.  And like I said, it will be a horrid painful thing to do but ultimately worth far more of your time than imagining what it would be like if you had schizophrenia and making yourself sick over it.

 

 

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Im guessing this 'absolute truth' thing might be a delusion?

Delusions are sometimes ppssible with ocd ive read.

But even calling it a delusion feels not right because in my mind its a 100% certainty it exists.

Osnt the above a important criteria for delusions?

Someone that thinks their 'delusion' is not a delilusion but actually the truth?

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Dude, how is this any different to the time you spent all your time obsessing over the age of someone you once slept with or the time you fed your kid a slightly un-vegan pudding or any of the other things your OCD has chosen to home in on?  Stop engaging with yourself over this and give yourself a break.  

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Seriously put the computer down and go do something else you are worrying yourself daft over actually nothing.  

If you're genuinely concerned about your mental health as regards schizophrenia make a doctors appointment to a discuss it and arrange to have yourself assessed properly.  And then put the issue down and walk away.  Constantly picking at it and trying to work out if you are or aren't schizophrenic is just another form of avoidance.  You're not a psychiatrist.  Quit self-diagnosing.  It doesn't work.

Edited by ocdjonesy
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8 hours ago, Ironborn said:

Well the urgency for me is mostly because of my kids, I'm somehow scared that the thoughts / commands may cause me to harm my 2 sons, now every time I think of them I try to imagine if I could do anything, I keep telling myself... no matter how crazy I'm going to get will I be able to intercept myself from doing anything harmful?

It just really hurts, and I keep feeling like I need to burst out crying right now, every Thursday I stay at home to pend the day with my 2 sons, will I still be able to do so? am I a danger to them on that day?

I'm already seeing how this is going to play out. I get diagnosed with schizo. Then ill need to be taken into a mental hospital away from my wife and children away from my job, my children will miss me, cry for me. I'll lose my job because I'm not there, and my family has to move out of our new bought house due to our mortgage not being paid. Meanwhile, I'm not recovering, and our entire family is collapsing...

See, you're already in the all too familiar trap of ruminating, coming here for reassurance and who knows what else.

Oh, how many times have we heard, but this time is different.

Do you have obsessions that cause you distress?

Are you experiencing doubt?

Do you do rituals or mental rituals to alleviate the distress caused by obsessions?

There's your checklist. All the rest of your explanation doesn't matter.

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13 hours ago, ocdjonesy said:

Dude, how is this any different to the time you spent all your time obsessing over the age of someone you once slept with or the time you fed your kid a slightly un-vegan pudding or any of the other things your OCD has chosen to home in on?  Stop engaging with yourself over this and give yourself a break.  

 

13 hours ago, ocdjonesy said:

Seriously put the computer down and go do something else you are worrying yourself daft over actually nothing.  

If you're genuinely concerned about your mental health as regards schizophrenia make a doctors appointment to a discuss it and arrange to have yourself assessed properly.  And then put the issue down and walk away.  Constantly picking at it and trying to work out if you are or aren't schizophrenic is just another form of avoidance.  You're not a psychiatrist.  Quit self-diagnosing.  It doesn't work.

 

10 hours ago, PolarBear said:

See, you're already in the all too familiar trap of ruminating, coming here for reassurance and who knows what else.

Oh, how many times have we heard, but this time is different.

Do you have obsessions that cause you distress?

Are you experiencing doubt?

Do you do rituals or mental rituals to alleviate the distress caused by obsessions?

There's your checklist. All the rest of your explanation doesn't matter.

The issue im having also right now is that i feel like im being very egoistical by not removing myself from my family, because in my mind i am a real danger to my family, but staying at home being stubborn feels as if im actually purposely taking the risk of me snapping at one point and hurting them bad.

How would you deal with such a thought or persuasion about being a real Threat and still staying among your loved ones with all possible consequences?

I feel irresponsible, selfish, and dangerous.
 

Edited by Ironborn
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I'd go to a trained professional and work through the issues that were causing me to have that fear and not let OCD convince me that I was a danger when I'd never actually done anything other than think maybe I might be *because I have OCD*.

You have a bunch of beliefs and behaviours that need challenging and you need to be the one who does the work to challenge them.

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5 hours ago, Ironborn said:

 

 

The issue im having also right now is that i feel like im being very egoistical by not removing myself from my family, because in my mind i am a real danger to my family, but staying at home being stubborn feels as if im actually purposely taking the risk of me snapping at one point and hurting them bad.

How would you deal with such a thought or persuasion about being a real Threat and still staying among your loved ones with all possible consequences?

I feel irresponsible, selfish, and dangerous.
 

I realize you feel that way but it's just another dirty OCD trick. There's nothing new here. I've seen it many times. 

This is just OCD. It will market itself as something new and dangerous but at it's core it's just plain, old, everyday OCD.

 

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24 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

This is just OCD. It will market itself as something new and dangerous but at it's core it's just plain, old, everyday OCD.

PolarBear, as we have established before - you are not a Medical professional.  How you can make a statement like that is beyond belief.

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30 minutes ago, northpaul said:

PolarBear, as we have established before - you are not a Medical professional.  How you can make a statement like that is beyond belief.

Strange how you single me out for not being a medical professional when we are on a forum where no one is a medical professional. 

I can make such a statement, as many others do, based on my own 40-year history with OCD and assisting hundreds of sufferers over 8 years on this forum. 

Have a great day.

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7 minutes ago, northpaul said:

How do you know if something is OCD or Schizophrenia?

That is the thread title.

Yes, I can read. So will you now go after the other people who did not specifically answer that question?

We like to say here, and I emphasize we, is that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck. We have an OCD sufferer here who is exhibiting symptoms including intrusive thoughts that cause distress, doubt and compulsions. Those are the hallmarks of OCD. I am very comfortable treating this as OCD and will encourage ironborn to do the same.

This all comes with experience, which you may gain over time.

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How's the slap fight helping here?

Surely the answer is: if there's a concern go to a mental health professional with those concerns.  

Not the same argument about credentials I've seen several times that helps no-one.  I get it, you guys take issue with each others approach to helping people.  Maybe take it to dm's if you want to talk it out.  

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11 hours ago, ocdjonesy said:

You have a bunch of beliefs and behaviours that need challenging and you need to be the one who does the work to challenge them.

@Ironborn  This sentence is the key message you need to take away with you.

You're clearly (to most of us at least) suffering from OCD thoughts and reacting to them with compulsive behaviours. How you react to them is what you need to challenge and change.

Changing how you respond is a conscious decision.

It doesn't just happen. You have to choose to respond differently. Which means you need somehow to gain enough insight - enough willingness to believe that this is OCD -  to make that choice and follow through on the change.

If you carry on believing you're a danger etc. without ever challenging that belief or changing what you do in response to it then you will never move forward.

 

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I have a very similar problem which is causing me terrible stress. This has now given me terrible insomnia which then makes it worse as it’s difficult to function without sleep. This in turn feeds the worries together with the horrible thoughts that I can’t sleep because I have a terrible mental illness, I get daily headaches and cannot enjoy anything much. I wish I could just calm my brain down and have a good night sleep. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 09/09/2022 at 11:48, Ironborn said:

Hi all,

I'm not really sure how to explain this in a way that really makes it sound exactly as I'm experiencing it. For quite a while now, when I have been getting periods of OCD issues, the way it operates is different from how it was the last couple of years. Let me explain;

In the past with OCD, I had a certain obsession and would be scared of having done something or doing something regarding the OCD theme. I would do CBT, exposure or just trying to give it the least amount of attention as possible and eventually it would fade.

As of the last 1 - 2 years, something else has been starting to get a part of these OCD 'cycles'. As in that whatever the OCD theme is there is a sort of 'overall supernatural truth or omni truth attached to it' I don't hear voices or see things there are not, it presents itself more as just the absolute truth which will be present forever!

The issue with this sense of truth that cannot be changed or doubted is that it seems to make all efforts of CBT / ERP etc. Meaningless.

In the past, CBT / ERP etc. would help because you somehow deep down knew things were not the way OCD makes them seem like they are. But that small gap of 'knowing it deep down' has actually disappeared, or at least that's how it feels, I don't know anymore deep down. Because honestly there is no-one on this planet that can know anything for a 100% certainty. Maybe 99.9999% but now a complete full 100% 

My last terrible OCD theme was existential OCD, and feel that specific theme has propelled this feeling of 'absolute truth'.

I don't know anymore actually, maybe it's OCD that has formed itself in another way to get to me? maybe it has decided to hijack this one thing I used against it to somehow be able to do therapy etc. 

I do remember that my OCD is weird in a way because I remember that when I used my children as a motivation to stop my compulsions and ruminating, the OCD attacked my children by stating; Your children will go to hell or burn in eternity if you don't comply.

I'm scared that I'm falling into some kind of schizophrenic disorder, and because of that ill possibly be getting voices, commands that I should kill my children.

I dont know anymore if this is just OCD?

 

I have exactly this I am sure. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia because of it. Now however my doctor thinks I was misdiagnosed and it is OCD or Asperger’s. My best advice would be to see a psychiatrist. I only wish I had gotten help sooner. Good luck. 

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On 09/09/2022 at 13:03, Ironborn said:

Then ill need to be taken into a mental hospital away from my wife and children away from my job, my children will miss me, cry for me. I'll lose my job because I'm not there, and my family has to move out of our new bought house due to our mortgage not being paid.

This happened to my brother, not the OCD heightened way of what you described, the total opposite in fact - I’ll try and say this in the least reassuring way of course, but I’ve had this theme myself.

 

My brother (who suffered with psychosis a couple of months back) was completely unaware he was unwell, if anything, he was convinced and he convinced everybody else he was completely fine. He got sectioned against his will and you know what happened? He got looked after amazingly :) the nurses loved him, he took medication and did therapy in there, he now knows how to cope :) he was in there for 2 months and let’s just say he loved it!! As strange as that sounds but he did, had all the nurses running around for him haha. 
 

I used to have this fear before it happened to my brother, my therapist said it’ll be highly unlikely someone as aware as me because of my ocd would experience those symptoms anyway, because I’m too aware! I don’t know if that makes you see things in a different light? I know it won’t get rid of the thoughts, but ocd loves to dramatise, let’s call it Boris Johnson (sorry to the Boris lovers)

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