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Not getting better really struggling with therapy


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I desperately want to get better, the intrusive thoughts are so strong. I only get peace when I am engaged in conversation then at others times I can't concentrate because I am listening to these intrusive thoughts and it's like an assination on my character a constant monitoring. My counsellor of 5 months has advised me to ignore and refocus but the thoughts make me sad and I am stuck. Every time I refocus it's still stuck wanting some reassurance or something to clear it. It's like a block I used to talk back this is ocd not me don't listen refocus this worked. But my counsellor said no engaging with thought. But it's just not working I sm devastated. I am in bed after taking medication to keep me calm. I feel because this therapy isn't lifting I am getting worse. I've looked for other therapist but I am sick of telling my story and worry the next therapist will not understand its ocd. 

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42 minutes ago, angels said:

I desperately want to get better, the intrusive thoughts are so strong. I only get peace when I am engaged in conversation then at others times I can't concentrate because I am listening to these intrusive thoughts and it's like an assination on my character a constant monitoring. My counsellor of 5 months has advised me to ignore and refocus but the thoughts make me sad and I am stuck. Every time I refocus it's still stuck wanting some reassurance or something to clear it. It's like a block I used to talk back this is ocd not me don't listen refocus this worked. But my counsellor said no engaging with thought. But it's just not working I sm devastated. I am in bed after taking medication to keep me calm. I feel because this therapy isn't lifting I am getting worse. I've looked for other therapist but I am sick of telling my story and worry the next therapist will not understand its ocd. 

Hi Angels, 

Take it from me, I had a private councillor/therapist for 5 years straight. It was nice off loading but didn’t help my OCD one bit and I wasted a LOT of money.. 
 

CBT is the gold standard treatment for OCD and you should try find an accredited BABCP therapist.. You need to know the behavioural side and have exposure therapy 

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Hi Smithy29

Thank you for your response 🙏 I just want the correct support and to see it lifting and a decrease in the thoughts. I have the counsellor tortured its embarrassing i sent her text to say this isn't working and then i am that desperate for help i text and said il just keep going. What i really what to say is there must be more to this tecnique the ERP like being able to talk back to ocd without doubting your reasuring yourself.I seen this this on Google Asto Clinic a guy who has ocd and a guy who works for the priory a DR is doing a 12 week programme on line for those suffering ocd. I've rang up and give my details i am do desperate for help.

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How are your eating habits? 

Did you get a blood panel?  Are you in medication?

Intrusive thoughts are thoughts you don't put there yourself.  Unwanted thoughts are thoughts you don't want 

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On 15/09/2022 at 06:47, angels said:

I seen this this on Google Asto Clinic a guy who has ocd and a guy who works for the priory a DR is doing a 12 week programme on line for those suffering ocd. I've rang up and give my details i am do desperate for help.

Do you have any more info on this?  Sounds like something I could be interested in.  (I'm housebound so can't travel for treatment.)

 

Talking back to OCD is always going to be giving it 'meaning'.  That's why it's the wrong thing to do.  You just need to let the thoughts flow past without giving them any meaning at all.  Obviously much easier said than done.  So far I've never heard of a proper practical technique for doing it either.  From what I've read online it seems like some people can eventually 'just do it' but others never do seem to master it...  I keep reading peoples stories in the hope of understanding why that difference occurs.

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5 hours ago, Keyboard Worrier said:

Do you have any more info on this?  Sounds like something I could be interested in.  (I'm housebound so can't travel for treatment.)

 

Talking back to OCD is always going to be giving it 'meaning'.  That's why it's the wrong thing to do.  You just need to let the thoughts flow past without giving them any meaning at all.  Obviously much easier said than done.  So far I've never heard of a proper practical technique for doing it either.  From what I've read online it seems like some people can eventually 'just do it' but others never do seem to master it...  I keep reading peoples stories in the hope of understanding why that difference occurs.

Hi Keyboard warrior

I am not certain of the legitimacy of this as yet its just something I've came across on google because I am so deperate for help and nothing is consistently working at the moment. I was googling specialist in ocd and came across Asto clinic,  you  could have a look yourself I seen it on internet I think it is a man called Steve Turnock who set it up Asto Clinics it is a charity organisation which runs specific 12 week programmes for ocd suffers. It is suppose to be very costly if you can afford to pay or if not a donation to the charity so I belive again, I am not completely certain. Then you have an assessment with the doctor and they assess your suitably for the course and if they feel it would help or not.

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4 hours ago, angels said:

I was googling specialist in ocd and came across Asto clinic,  you  could have a look yourself I seen it on internet I think it is a man called Steve Turnock who set it up Asto Clinics it is a charity organisation which runs specific 12 week programmes for ocd suffers. It is suppose to be very costly if you can afford to pay or if not a donation to the charity so I belive again, I am not completely certain.

Be very careful before commiting to anything you've found online.  :unsure: Check out the therapist's qualifications (BABCP registered as a minimum) and be aware there are lots of scammers out there taking money off people for the same advice that's free on this website or from many other sources. Be doubly wary of anybody who sets themselves up as some kind of guru just because they've had OCD themselves. :dry:  (Not saying the people running this clinic are, I've not checked it out so the onus is on you to research before you commit.)

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Then you have an assessment with the doctor and they assess your suitably for the course and if they feel it would help or not.

Call me a cynic if you like, but my first thought was that choosing who is/isn't suitable for your treatment course (assuming it's CBT based) is unneccessary. Are they cherry-picking to boost their success rates? Or why would they think there therapy course might not help? If it's CBT there's no reason to assume that.

 

10 hours ago, Keyboard Worrier said:

You just need to let the thoughts flow past without giving them any meaning at all.  Obviously much easier said than done.  So far I've never heard of a proper practical technique for doing it either. 

There are several good ones. You could look into Mindfulness, which teaches you to notice the thoughts without judgement, or try some of the online meditations such as thinking of whatever is troubling you as a leaf on a stream and let it float by. Or just practice changing your thinking - challenge the false belief that the thoughts deserve/ need your attention and shouldn't be ignored.

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13 hours ago, snowbear said:

There are several good ones. You could look into Mindfulness, which teaches you to notice the thoughts without judgement, or try some of the online meditations such as thinking of whatever is troubling you as a leaf on a stream and let it float by. Or just practice changing your thinking - challenge the false belief that the thoughts deserve/ need your attention and shouldn't be ignored.

Those are mental techniques rather than practical ones though.  Presumably great if you have a vivid imagination, not so great for those of us with a poor imagination.  Not sure I've explained that well, but I never really understood the plot of story books when younger...it's only when a film version came out that I realised what was going on!  I need to be 'doing' something rather than just trying to think about something.  (Still not sure I've really explained that well.)

I have been trying to challenge the thinking over the past year or so but the problem I have specifically is that the things I fear DO happen every day to some extent.  So there will always be an unmanageable consequence at some point during the day, just not necessarily caused by the missed compulsion.  I've tried to rationalise that and separate the two things as not necessarily being linked, and I think I've been doing that fairly well, but it's barely had any impact on my overall daily life.

 

I agree on the subject of the Asto clinic, I won't apply myself.  I misread the earlier post as it being part of the of the Priory which I would have had more trust in.  Though I will say that everywhere I've been so far has assessed people to cherry pick the best ones for their records.  I've been refused many times at IAPT as well as various clinics as effectively being 'unhelpable'...which I understand due to multiple health issues, but it does mean I've been left with no help at all, after making myself even more unwell each time by forcing myself through the assessments, to the point where I now can't even access any assessments.  But I still have to somehow get through each day with numerus physical &mental issues which are continually worsening...which doesn't seem to have been understood by any health professionals so far.  I'm sure there must be many other people in the same situation as well.

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3 minutes ago, Keyboard Worrier said:

Those are mental techniques rather than practical ones though.

The best practical 'technique' (if you want to call it that) is simply to get on with your day and not stop doing things because the thoughts are there.

My favourite practical advice is to get your hands busy - craft work, taking the toaster apart, building a house of cards, playing sport... whatever interests you. The trick is to do an activity which requires some concentration or dextrous skill so you have to switch your brain onto the task and away from the OCD thoughts.

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23 hours ago, snowbear said:

The best practical 'technique' (if you want to call it that) is simply to get on with your day and not stop doing things because the thoughts are there.

My favourite practical advice is to get your hands busy - craft work, taking the toaster apart, building a house of cards, playing sport... whatever interests you. The trick is to do an activity which requires some concentration or dextrous skill so you have to switch your brain onto the task and away from the OCD thoughts.

I was doing that as much as I could for the last decade or so but I don't have 'a day' left to get on with any more.  My entire day is now spent just trying to manage my own bodily functions, which is the main thing that I never have been able to cope with.  (And which OCD & agoraphobia latched onto).  I can't really walk now, I can't really eat, I can't speak or manage any person face to face, I haven't been able to drive for over a year, I can't visually focus on anything for more than a few minutes, I shake too much for intricate tasks, I no longer have the strength to carry out any DIY or vehicle maintenance, even just preparing a basic meal is difficult.  I live in a small upstairs studio flat with no garden and no space to store or create anything. 

Three years ago I pleaded with the mental team to offer me some sort of support (after being forced through three awful assessments) so that I could access the physical health services but was refused and just told I wasn't trying hard enough.  Left without any support or anywhere else to try.

Couple of years ago I pleaded with letting agents to help me find a more suitable property (downstairs with accessible garden at the very least) but no help was provided.  In fact the opposite, I was refused several places, due to nothing but prejudice as far as I can tell.  I don't see any way to make improvements where I am, I need somewhere where I could have 'a day' whether that's pottering in a garden or building Lego or repairing something etc.  I still need to move but have no idea how I'd physically manage that now, even if a property became available.

Last year I pleaded with the GP to help me find some way to keep driving locally as it was the final way I was 'managing' with some independence, but he offered no help at all, just covered his own backside by strongly reinforcing the fact that it was my responsibility to decide whether I was safe to continue driving...obviously that's the worst thing to say to someone with OCD!  (I should add, it was worsening stomach problems and dizziness that stopped me driving, not OCD thoughts.)

So now I just feel like I'm trapped in a completely impossible situation.  Not all down to OCD, I'm not even sure OCD is the biggest issue in terms of daily impact, but I can't seem to find any way forward, just continually making things worse whatever I try.

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7 minutes ago, Keyboard Worrier said:

Couple of years ago I pleaded with letting agents to help me find a more suitable property (downstairs with accessible garden at the very least) but no help was provided.  In fact the opposite, I was refused several places, due to nothing but prejudice as far as I can tell.

Have you tried looking at some form of sheltered accomodation (I dont know your age but I am in the 55+ category to qualify)?  I am currently starting the process of a move to such accomodation due to my own mobilty issues.

Have you tried to claim any form of disability allowance to help with your mobility?  There is help available.

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Maybe OCD is only a coping mechanism for some other comorbidity?  Yes, it’s an OCD forum & OCD produces rigid thinking so no new answers. 
 

Are you avoiding doing things? Avoidant Personality Disorder? Most people with it have OCD as a coping mechanism.  Psychologists don’t do personality disorders, only ones that specialize in this field do. 
 

Once you find the source you’ll get the right treatment that works. 

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On 18/09/2022 at 10:47, Keyboard Worrier said:

So now I just feel like I'm trapped in a completely impossible situation.  Not all down to OCD, I'm not even sure OCD is the biggest issue in terms of daily impact, but I can't seem to find any way forward, just continually making things worse whatever I try.

Then there's where we start when forging your personalised recovery plan.

It's not unusual for the problems OCD creates to take over as 'the' problem. It's also common for physical ;limitations of one kind or another to become bigger issue than the OCD that surrounds and pervades them. I have a lot of personal experience with that and you'll be relieved to hear there is a way back from where you've got to now. :)

 

From the sound of things your first task is to gradually rebuild your abilty to concentrate and to do physical activities in spite of your symptoms and OCD. So - just for now - let's put treating the OCD aside and focus on expanding your world again.

List 3 things you'd like to be able to do that are just outside your reach at the moment. Not the big stuff that depends on others (like moving flat or getting passed fit to drive) - just personal things like perhaps coping better with bodily functions, organising your time better so you have a regular routine with protected time for other things that OCD isn't allowed to intrude on. (You refuse to allow OCD to intrude.) Change doesn't just happen, you have to make it happen.)

So, 3 things- what is most important to you to change first?

 

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On 18/09/2022 at 11:02, northpaul said:

Have you tried looking at some form of sheltered accomodation (I dont know your age but I am in the 55+ category to qualify)?  I am currently starting the process of a move to such accomodation due to my own mobilty issues.

Have you tried to claim any form of disability allowance to help with your mobility?  There is help available.

I am on the housing association list but I'm a long way from the 55+ age restriction.  I do check the new properties every week but realistically there's no chance of me getting what I need through the HA in my situation.

I get some PIP at the moment but extra money is useless to me here.  It can't remove the stairs or give me any more space etc.  I hoped to use it to pay for private treatment but none of the services were willing to put reasonable adjustments in place even if I was paying...  Annoying as I was asking for things like using an alternative entrance to avoid a crowded waiting room, which suddenly became not only possible, but a requirement when the pandemic started!  Too late now of course, I can't even get out of the flat.  

I also would have benefitted hugely from access to the Motability scheme for a more suitable car a few years ago, but did not fit the criteria for that.

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14 hours ago, snowbear said:

From the sound of things your first task is to gradually rebuild your abilty to concentrate and to do physical activities in spite of your symptoms and OCD. So - just for now - let's put treating the OCD aside and focus on expanding your world again.

List 3 things you'd like to be able to do that are just outside your reach at the moment. Not the big stuff that depends on others (like moving flat or getting passed fit to drive) - just personal things like perhaps coping better with bodily functions, organising your time better so you have a regular routine with protected time for other things that OCD isn't allowed to intrude on. (You refuse to allow OCD to intrude.) Change doesn't just happen, you have to make it happen.)

So, 3 things- what is most important to you to change first?

I do see what you mean but the problem is I need to be able to move or drive in order to start doing other things.

I can't visually focus on anything for long because it causes immediate tension around my left eye/ear/head with a headache to follow, worsened by bright light or low light or motion etc.  Happens every day, it's not something that's going to improve with repetition.  I'd like to hope this could be solved with glasses, but I massively failed an eye test back in 2019.  Couldn't keep my body still enough for the machines, and couldn't tell whether any lenses were helpful or not while in the midst of panic, which never stops no matter how long I'm with a person.  Needless to say there was no improvement from that, just the typical worsening from every medical event that I attempt.  I never could cope with having people in the flat (strangers or relatives) and that got progressively worse up until the pandemic where it became totally impossible.  So in order to try and do another eye test now, I either need to move somewhere with more space, separate rooms, outdoor area etc to slowly work on having people in for home visits, or I need to be able to drive again to travel to a local optician.  There's no way of managing something like that here.  

I'm technically still 'allowed' to drive, just can't physically manage it because my stomach is too weak and any motion or constant noise causes dizziness.  Obviously, I've got no chance at public transport/taxis when I can't manage my own controlled motion now, let alone dealing with other people on top of that.

I would, of course, like to be able to cope with bodily functions as well as other people can.  But as that's been a lifelong issue, I don't know how to even begin working on it.  The irony being that any attempt to work on it causes more bodily functions through the fight/flight response.  I'm sure it's years of this that has now left my stomach and bowels in such a state, and possibly beyond repair.  Which is logistically bad enough (preventing travel etc) but worse still for someone with a severe bodily phobia.  I was told back in 2018 that my stomach problems wouldn't ever improve (by the same GP...meant to be a mental health expert but clearly no idea about bodily phobias as well as OCD!).  I asked for help with managing it from a mental perspective and was just told to 'get on with it', which isn't any help at all.

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9 hours ago, Keyboard Worrier said:

I do see what you mean but the problem is I need to be able to move or drive in order to start doing other things.

Nonsense. :wontlisten:  You're stuck in a rut of looking at this only one way. If you want solutions you're going to have to start thinking outside the box.

Discard all your old 'I want this to happen...' and replace them with 'These are the things I can make happen, and I'm going to do exactly that!'

So you've got some physical issues with stomach, dizziness, guts and wee, ejaculate - you're not alone in that. But you use it as a reason not to tackle things, not to make changes. You have to get past that and get into the mindset that you are going to act regardless of the physical discomforts.

Whether you realise it or not you're playing the 'When/ Then' game with yourself. 

When I can drive then I'll make thiose changes...

After I've moved then I'll start pushing myself...

Over time it stops being a valid reason and becomes an excuse. Truth is, for some people it's easier to live restricted life full of discomfort, anxiety and avoidance than it is to face your fears, push through the physical discomfort and set yourself free.

And then there's the fact that freedom can be scary. :eek:  It's unpredictable. Anything is possible. Including the good stuff you long for.  Which - if you're in the OCD mindset of 'nothing must change' - is possibly the scariest idea of all.

So you retreat into your physical symptoms and avoid change, avoid challenge, avoid making decisions.

This isn't a personal criticism. I've played the 'when/then' game in the past myself. I've had to learn how to get on with life (make a life) in spite of the physical discomforts and challenges. You can too.

This head game you play hurts only you. It's the biggest barrier to finding solutions, far greater than all the stuff you listed above combined.

If you want things to improve you have to be prepared to make some changes. A good place to start is to have a think about what would make a positive difference in your current day to day routines. Random example - say going to the bathroom takes you 2 hours and you have to do that 3 times a day. That's 6 hours a day of time wasted. So how could you reduce it to say 1 hour per visit?

I'm not going to attempt to suggest specific solutions. That's for you to think through and decide what you're willing to push yourself on.

Just remember - think outside the box! Don't dismiss anything as impossible just because you don't like the solution.

As a start, find 3 things you can begin to work on. If it feels too hard to do all at once then break each one down into smaller stages.

What matters is you make a start.  :)

 

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