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So this morning my daughter had a poo accident and I had to shower her before school and that would typically set off my anxiety, the nakedness, thoughts I’d get etc. Anyway I’ve been beaten myself up for not doing the showering cos my ex ( who still lives with me) took over. I think he knows I’d take longer than him cos of my anxiety so to save time he told me go have my breakfast and then he would do it. We were seriously pressed for time so I did just that but now I’m feeling like I avoided doing something that I know causes my anxiety. I feel like I’ve failed. Just looking for your two cents on this guys. Thanks so much 

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12 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

So this morning my daughter had a poo accident and I had to shower her before school and that would typically set off my anxiety, the nakedness, thoughts I’d get etc. Anyway I’ve been beaten myself up for not doing the showering cos my ex ( who still lives with me) took over. I think he knows I’d take longer than him cos of my anxiety so to save time he told me go have my breakfast and then he would do it. We were seriously pressed for time so I did just that but now I’m feeling like I avoided doing something that I know causes my anxiety. I feel like I’ve failed. Just looking for your two cents on this guys. Thanks so much 

We aren't perfect. You can't always be completely compulsion free, sometimes it happens. There's no point beating yourself up over it. You recognise that it was a trigger for you and noticed you have done a compulsion. All that means is you now know how to handle that differently in the future. You can't change the fact that you did the avoidance.

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6 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

We aren't perfect. You can't always be completely compulsion free, sometimes it happens. There's no point beating yourself up over it. You recognise that it was a trigger for you and noticed you have done a compulsion. All that means is you now know how to handle that differently in the future. You can't change the fact that you did the avoidance

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8 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

We aren't perfect. You can't always be completely compulsion free, sometimes it happens. There's no point beating yourself up over it. You recognise that it was a trigger for you and noticed you have done a compulsion. All that means is you now know how to handle that differently in the future. You can't change the fact that you did the avoidance.

I think I’ve been doing a ton of avoidance since my daughter was born nearly four years ago. It’s just the fear and scariness that I’m so frightened to face. 

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4 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

I think I’ve been doing a ton of avoidance since my daughter was born nearly four years ago. It’s just the fear and scariness that I’m so frightened to face. 

Totally understandable. Doing ERP can be absolutely terrifying as you are taking the risk that your worst fears about it could be true. However, you are equally taking the risk that this has been nonsense the entire time. Once you do ERP a lot round that it will become substantially less significant. Don't avoid spending time with her or doing parenting activities, deliberately be in those situations despite what OCD says. It will be uncomfortable and anxiety provoking but its worth it to realise you didn't have anything to worry about and that you didn't have to listen to OCD. Taking the risk was the best thing I did in ERP. It showed me that OCD wasn't something to listen to and that the compulsions or the lack of doing them had no impact on me whatsoever. They didn't matter. They do nothing.

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3 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Totally understandable. Doing ERP can be absolutely terrifying as you are taking the risk that your worst fears about it could be true. However, you are equally taking the risk that this has been nonsense the entire time. Once you do ERP a lot round that it will become substantially less significant. Don't avoid spending time with her or doing parenting activities, deliberately be in those situations despite what OCD says. It will be uncomfortable and anxiety provoking but its worth it to realise you didn't have anything to worry about and that you didn't have to listen to OCD. Taking the risk was the best thing I did in ERP. It showed me that OCD wasn't something to listen to and that the compulsions or the lack of doing them had no impact on me whatsoever. They didn't matter. They do nothing.

Like i wouldn’t bathe her for nearly two years cos I was scared of the thoughts I had and still have when I bathe her. Straight after I would feel I did wrong. Is it about doing what you should do and letting the thoughts go? Like I’m not lying when I say I can be wiping her or washing her bottom and think I’m doing wrong. 

Edited by Nikki79
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Just now, Nikki79 said:

Like i wouldn’t bathe her for nearly two years cos I was scared of the thoughts I had and still have when I bathe her. Straight after I would feel I did wrong 

OCD hijacks your feelings. It can make you feel guilty for no reason and for a ridiculously long period of time. You can have whatever those thoughts are whilst doing those activities. 

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34 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

OCD hijacks your feelings. It can make you feel guilty for no reason and for a ridiculously long period of time. You can have whatever those thoughts are whilst doing those activities. 

I have to be braver you know. I need to be to truly ditch the OCD for good. 

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2 hours ago, Nikki79 said:

I have to be braver you know. I need to be to truly ditch the OCD for good. 

That's the right attitude. I love Mark Freeman's analogy's of the random Alpaca in the street shouting the intrusive thoughts at you. Why should you listen to a random alpaca? It has no bearing at all its totally illogical and without reason. OCD is very much that random alpaca.

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30 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

That's the right attitude. I love Mark Freeman's analogy's of the random Alpaca in the street shouting the intrusive thoughts at you. Why should you listen to a random alpaca? It has no bearing at all its totally illogical and without reason. OCD is very much that random alpaca.

But DRS1 can I tell you that I even now have these thoughts that scare me saying all the anguish and pain I’m going through isn’t just ocd that it’s relevant and that it’s important etc etc. it’s a hard thought pattern to describe but that’s basically what it says, that it all means something, means I’ve done wrong etc and doing wrong.

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1 minute ago, Nikki79 said:

But DRS1 can I tell you that I even now have these thoughts that scare me saying all the anguish and pain I’m going through isn’t just ocd that it’s relevant and that it’s important etc etc. it’s a hard thought pattern to describe but that’s basically what it says, that it all means something, means I’ve done wrong etc and doing wrong.

Here's something to really keep in mind (seriously this is super important). OCD will make you doubt everything. That includes whether or not you do have OCD or whether this would fall under OCD. It's the duck analogy. If it looks like OCD, sounds like OCD, then its probably OCD. Is there urgency to do something to correct a thought or image or to reduce anxiety, it's probably OCD.

 

Thoughts are scary when they feel real. It doesn't mean they mean anything. For example with harm intrusive images and thoughts, I thought that my arm was physically going outwards to my family to push them down the stairs. It didn't mean it was but it felt too real at the time and so I did everything I could to prevent it including walking away from the staircase anytime they were near it. With sexual intrusive images having images of you engaging in sexual acts with your family and feeling like your head is going to make contact with their genitals or your genitals will make contact with theirs and then avoiding them, worrying about getting aroused by those thoughts and images, trying to counter them. I give these examples because it shows you that 1. You aren't alone but 2. I still can experience these to this day but I don't care anymore about them. They are just thoughts and just images. It's just OCD being a pain in the neck but it can't hurt me.

 

Just because you have a thought or an image, doesn't mean that you are a bad person or its as bad as having done what the content of the thought or image was. That's thought-action fusion and its one of OCD's main tactics to guilt trip you into more compulsions.

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6 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Here's something to really keep in mind (seriously this is super important). OCD will make you doubt everything. That includes whether or not you do have OCD or whether this would fall under OCD. It's the duck analogy. If it looks like OCD, sounds like OCD, then its probably OCD. Is there urgency to do something to correct a thought or image or to reduce anxiety, it's probably OCD.

 

Thoughts are scary when they feel real. It doesn't mean they mean anything. For example with harm intrusive images and thoughts, I thought that my arm was physically going outwards to my family to push them down the stairs. It didn't mean it was but it felt too real at the time and so I did everything I could to prevent it including walking away from the staircase anytime they were near it. With sexual intrusive images having images of you engaging in sexual acts with your family and feeling like your head is going to make contact with their genitals or your genitals will make contact with theirs and then avoiding them, worrying about getting aroused by those thoughts and images, trying to counter them. I give these examples because it shows you that 1. You aren't alone but 2. I still can experience these to this day but I don't care anymore about them. They are just thoughts and just images. It's just OCD being a pain in the neck but it can't hurt me.

 

Just because you have a thought or an image, doesn't mean that you are a bad person or its as bad as having done what the content of the thought or image was. That's thought-action fusion and its one of OCD's main tactics to guilt trip you into more compulsions.

Well the feeling after such thoughts is that oh my God I believe it, it’s true and then I feel just horrible, it’s a thought saying you should feel bad you are bad. Does that make sense?

 

I wish I could do so much better DRS1. I really do.

Edited by Nikki79
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5 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

Well the feeling after such thoughts is that oh my God I believe it, it’s true and then I feel just horrible, it’s a thought saying you should feel bad you are bad. Does that make sense?

 

I wish I could do so much better DRS1. I really do.

Everyone is at a different level of progress..OCD feels real so what you said makes sense.

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1 minute ago, DRS1 said:

Everyone is at a different level of progress..OCD feels real so what you said makes sense.

I’ve made progress but then I slip back too. It’s frustrating. Because I’ve had OCD all my child’s life and had so many instances of it my mind tells me I’ve somehow tainted her and don’t wrong to her cos of it. I find that thought so hard to deal with it 😞 

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I’m beginning to think you can never reason or think your way out of OCD so as you say if it feels like ocd then it’s time to accept it is and move on with your life. You will never get the answer you want so you have to recognize the thoughts and disengage as quick as you can or end up like me in a loop of them.

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Just now, Nikki79 said:

I’m beginning to think you can never reason or think your way out of OCD so as you say if it feels like ocd then it’s time to accept it is and move on with your life. You will never get the answer you want so you have to recognize the thoughts and disengage as quick as you can or end up like me in a loop of them.

You've hit the nail on the head. You can't use logic against something as illogical as OCD (trust me I tried that one too - it went miserably)

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Just now, Nikki79 said:

And how are you now? Are you managing to live your life pretty much ok?

Yeah. Still experience intrusive thoughts and images but don't do the compulsions. Sometimes there might be a few blips where it gets me but then I just do ERP to shove it back in OCD's face and that works pretty well. Not doing compulsions and listening to OCD is towards my values not a violation of my values and morals now. Stress can be a thing for OCD that causes it to be more present but again I just deal with it as it comes. Going from 6 hours a day of compulsions to 15 minutes at worst on a bad day (and that's 15 minutes throughout the day) is not bad at all. Doesn't mean I'm happy experiencing the images or thoughts but its something I just had to learn to accept were going to be there no matter if I did or didn't do the compulsions.

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2 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Yeah. Still experience intrusive thoughts and images but don't do the compulsions. Sometimes there might be a few blips where it gets me but then I just do ERP to shove it back in OCD's face and that works pretty well. Not doing compulsions and listening to OCD is towards my values not a violation of my values and morals now. Stress can be a thing for OCD that causes it to be more present but again I just deal with it as it comes. Going from 6 hours a day of compulsions to 15 minutes at worst on a bad day (and that's 15 minutes throughout the day) is not bad at all. Doesn't mean I'm happy experiencing the images or thoughts but its something I just had to learn to accept were going to be there no matter if I did or didn't do the compulsions.

Well done you have done amazing. You should be so proud of yourself. You really knocked it on the head. 

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1 minute ago, Nikki79 said:

Well done you have done amazing. You should be so proud of yourself. You really knocked it on the head. 

I just didn't give myself another option. By the point I started seeing a psychologist, I already understood OCD but was just terrified of doing ERP wrong, which in hindsight is stupid. For me its a simple thing of take the obsession, exaggerate it, then picture it vividly and do nothing about it. The first time I did ERP and nothing bad happened was when I realised the compulsions did nothing and from there you can use that basis to keep doing ERP. For you, doing the parenting activities whilst having these obsessions and despite it feeling real can be really beneficial as thats when you'll start to notice you can do the things you value even though OCD is screaming its head off at you.

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50 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Going from 6 hours a day of compulsions to 15 minutes at worst on a bad day (and that's 15 minutes throughout the day) is not bad at all

That is good and is in line of my personal view about the definition of recovery.  I would not be able to put specific times on compulsions I do now compared to 2 years ago when I was in therapy.  What I can say is there has been a significant reduction since CBT therapy.

To me recovery is a continuing process.  If I am in a better place tomorrow then that is recovery.  I am not in to setting absolute targets.

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1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

I just didn't give myself another option. By the point I started seeing a psychologist, I already understood OCD but was just terrified of doing ERP wrong, which in hindsight is stupid. For me its a simple thing of take the obsession, exaggerate it, then picture it vividly and do nothing about it. The first time I did ERP and nothing bad happened was when I realised the compulsions did nothing and from there you can use that basis to keep doing ERP. For you, doing the parenting activities whilst having these obsessions and despite it feeling real can be really beneficial as thats when you'll start to notice you can do the things you value even though OCD is screaming its head off at you.

So I’ve ERP everyday but then how come I’m not getting better?

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8 minutes ago, Nikki79 said:

So I’ve ERP everyday but then how come I’m not getting better?

 

Because you're probably not doing ERP (exposure and response prevention) every day.

More than likely you're doing 'exposure and compulsion response' every day.

The prevention part is very important. That means doing your parenting tasks without buying into the mental gibberish going on in your head. It's not just a matter of not avoiding but then doing the task with gritted teeth and eyes averted while you listen to the voice in your head saying 'Careful! Don't touch her there! Don't do anything wrong.'

 

ERP means doing the exposure without doing ANY compulsions afterwards.

When the task is done, do you ruminate on it afterwards? Do you mentally replay it to check for any wrong-doing? Those are compulsions too. They are an attempt to neutralise the anxiety created by doing the exposure and they undo most of the benefit of facing up to the non-avoidance part.  :(


There's nothing wrong in washing your child's private parts.  There's nothing sexual about it. Never was, never will be.

But your brain has made a link between these kind of normal activities and being a paedophile. That's the problem. That's what keeps you on constant lookout for danger.  That's the bit that's gone wrong in your thinking and the bit you need to fix to get back to normal.

Maybe you need to do more work on the cognitive side - teaching your brain that normal parenting tasks aren't in any way doing anything 'wrong'. Get rid of that crazy belief in your head that says 'anything even vaguely to do with private parts = wrong-doing'.

That's the thought process which keeps you locked into the cycle of wanting to avoid, fearing to touch, petrified of doing anything even vaguely 'wrong'.

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10 hours ago, snowbear said:

 

Because you're probably not doing ERP (exposure and response prevention) every day.

More than likely you're doing 'exposure and compulsion response' every day.

The prevention part is very important. That means doing your parenting tasks without buying into the mental gibberish going on in your head. It's not just a matter of not avoiding but then doing the task with gritted teeth and eyes averted while you listen to the voice in your head saying 'Careful! Don't touch her there! Don't do anything wrong.'

 

ERP means doing the exposure without doing ANY compulsions afterwards.

When the task is done, do you ruminate on it afterwards? Do you mentally replay it to check for any wrong-doing? Those are compulsions too. They are an attempt to neutralise the anxiety created by doing the exposure and they undo most of the benefit of facing up to the non-avoidance part.  :(


There's nothing wrong in washing your child's private parts.  There's nothing sexual about it. Never was, never will be.

But your brain has made a link between these kind of normal activities and being a paedophile. That's the problem. That's what keeps you on constant lookout for danger.  That's the bit that's gone wrong in your thinking and the bit you need to fix to get back to normal.

Maybe you need to do more work on the cognitive side - teaching your brain that normal parenting tasks aren't in any way doing anything 'wrong'. Get rid of that crazy belief in your head that says 'anything even vaguely to do with private parts = wrong-doing'.

That's the thought process which keeps you locked into the cycle of wanting to avoid, fearing to touch, petrified of doing anything even vaguely 'wrong'.

Just an additional thing here too. If you did do ERP then do compulsions afterwards, you can re-expose yourself with your imagination and do the response prevention again to essentially undo the effects of having done the compulsion in the first place. Sometimes you might end up doing a compulsion but as long as you know how to undo it with ERP you can make progress. Obviously the key is preventing the compulsions in the first place but hopefully that is helpful. I have to agree with @snowbear from experience early on with ERP, I did exposure and compulsion response and probably within seconds of doing the exposure. I got there with ERP not long after though. Absolutely love that phrase though sums that initial part of issues with ERP up so well.

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