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Urgent - Been offered ‘Dr.Julian therapy’ from my local IAPT


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Hi everybody,

I thought I’d ask, probably the admin team or @Ashley as this is quite urgent. However, I wanted to put it on my main page here as I know a lot of IAPT services are offering it.

I’ll keep this short and sweet, I re-referred myself to my local IAPT as my second course of therapy wasn’t helpful. However, they’ve called me up saying instead of being on a long wait list, they can refer me to ‘Dr. Julian’ which is a private service, funded by the NHS? I won’t have to pay, but I’ll be able to get zoom therapy straight away with a ‘qualified therapist.’ I’m not to sure what to do?

 

Should I ask to stay on my normal IAPT wait list or ask for this Dr.Julian therapy? The website is on google.

Edited by Summer9173
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Just looked more into it, apparently there fully trained and qualified therapist, if I was to go private the sessions would cost me £60-£100 an hour, but because IAPT will be paying i would essentially get this for free? I might give it a go….. but would still like advice on what to do if that’s ok :) 

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  • Summer9173 changed the title to Urgent - Been offered ‘Dr.Julian therapy’ from my local IAPT
2 minutes ago, Veryblue said:

The NHS are going to pay for you to see someone using this service? I’ve never heard of it.

It’s called ‘Dr.Julian’, I did think it sounds too good to be true but it sounds like it is? The NHS basically pay for the private service but this is only because their waiting list is already long?

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4 minutes ago, Summer9173 said:

It’s called ‘Dr.Julian’, I did think it sounds too good to be true but it sounds like it is? The NHS basically pay for the private service but this is only because their waiting list is already long?

Sorry I should have said I hadn’t heard of it. I did a little research after I saw your post - overwhelmingly very good reviews which I’m always cynical about! Personally I’d do a ton of research into it before committing. Again just me I don’t feel comfortable discussing extremely personal matters in what I consider to be an impersonal way. Also I’d like to think - hope - a therapist really commits to a client and isn’t just in it for the extra money.

Edited by Veryblue
Missed a word out
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Never heard of it......but a quick Google search shows it's not "a therapy" as such but a mental well-being App.  The cynical side of me worries it's simply a way of referring people as a means of seeing to be doing something.  A way of offering something in the face of high demand for services and not being in a position to offer one-to-one therapy.  Also, a bit concerned/puzzled about their promotion of/involvement with green/environmental issues, BLM etc.....Not that I have an issue with these, just not sure it's appropriate on an app that's supposed to be firstly dea,ing with mental health issues as it's priority.  Don't see a problem with giving it a try but not if it's simply a way of manipulating figures in a way as being seen to be doing somehing & ticking a box.  By all means see what it has to offer but don't be put off from getting proper one-to-one support and instead having to rely on an app.  

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23 hours ago, Summer9173 said:

It’s called ‘Dr.Julian’, I did think it sounds too good to be true but it sounds like it is? The NHS basically pay for the private service but this is only because their waiting list is already long?

I must admit I had not heard of it.   This makes me so angry though because having googled it, it's not therapy and it's not even approved by the NHS (I think apps are meant to me, or soon will be).   We would also need to see the credentials of the therapists that Dr Julian are offering to see if they are formally qualified. 

I can look more into this tomorrow if you need me to, but my gut feeling is avoid.  If it was me I would be asking serious questions of the local NHS about why they are paying for this and not investing in better local services/therapists.

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The app enables you to book video appointments with therapists. Or alternatively you can book via their website.
 

The therapists all have at least 2 years clinical experience. They are BABCP accredited and provide CBT. They treat OCD and mention CBT exposure therapy which sounds like ERP. 

They say you are given a list of therapists to choose from before booking your initial session.
 

it depends if you are happy with online video appointments or would like face to face.

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Having looked more at this overnight, my gut feeling is stick with NHS treatment, unless they offer you this as a bonus and does not impact on you getting NHS therapy or delay the waiting time.   Few reasons for this, one is if you need stepping up later, they may not step you up until you've gone through the NHS therapy anyway.  

I am not sure if I am looking at a different site to you Mini, but on the one I am looking at I can't find that text, I do find these comments, all of which are red flags for me:

Quote

They are all highly experienced with a minimum of 2 years clinical experience and they must provide evidence of counselling therapy or psychotherapy qualifications to diploma level or higher for masters and doctorate level therapists. 

Which is not what I would personally look for. I want more.  Another part says:

Quote

All our therapists are trained or in training as online therapists.

So they are saying they may not be fully trained.

Another part says

Quote

 

'Video online therapy has been proven to work just as well, and in some cases better, than traditional, face-to-face therapy. '   

 

This is simply not true, the evidence is still in its infancy for OCD and there is no way it works better, the question is more if it is as effective and if you need a therapist to be there to help you do behavioural exercises then it simply can not be as effective. Although there are of course benefits to video therapy, i.e. if you're compulsions mean you are running late to leave the house, you can still do your session online.

Quote

Will my information be used for clinical research? - On occasion we may use fully anonymised information for research purposes. 

This is unethical IMO.  Our stories, our data should only ever be used with our permission. This reads like it could be used without permission. 

 

Mini, do you mind if I ask where you found this info:

12 hours ago, Mini said:

The therapists all have at least 2 years clinical experience. They are BABCP accredited and provide CBT. They treat OCD and mention CBT exposure therapy which sounds like ERP. 

I still personally ;look for my therapist to be a clinical psychologist, but this is closer to what we should expect as a minimum through IAPT I guess. There is more to it than that though. Are they all supervised, if so through the NHS or external and where does the complaints procedure process start/end if something goes wrong.   

So in short Summer there are too many red flags for my liking here.

Bit of a generic private therapy tip here for all those reading. If anybody is going to work with an external clinic, in the UK or anywhere, never go off what the website states about therapist qualifications. always ask for the name of the therapist you will be working with and then check their credentials for yourself.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Ashley said:

Having looked more at this overnight, my gut feeling is stick with NHS treatment, unless they offer you this as a bonus and does not impact on you getting NHS therapy or delay the waiting time.   Few reasons for this, one is if you need stepping up later, they may not step you up until you've gone through the NHS therapy anyway.  

I am not sure if I am looking at a different site to you Mini, but on the one I am looking at I can't find that text, I do find these comments, all of which are red flags for me:

Which is not what I would personally look for. I want more.  Another part says:

So they are saying they may not be fully trained.

Another part says

This is simply not true, the evidence is still in its infancy for OCD and there is no way it works better, the question is more if it is as effective and if you need a therapist to be there to help you do behavioural exercises then it simply can not be as effective. Although there are of course benefits to video therapy, i.e. if you're compulsions mean you are running late to leave the house, you can still do your session online.

This is unethical IMO.  Our stories, our data should only ever be used with our permission. This reads like it could be used without permission. 

 

Mini, do you mind if I ask where you found this info:

I still personally ;look for my therapist to be a clinical psychologist, but this is closer to what we should expect as a minimum through IAPT I guess. There is more to it than that though. Are they all supervised, if so through the NHS or external and where does the complaints procedure process start/end if something goes wrong.   

So in short Summer there are too many red flags for my liking here.

Bit of a generic private therapy tip here for all those reading. If anybody is going to work with an external clinic, in the UK or anywhere, never go off what the website states about therapist qualifications. always ask for the name of the therapist you will be working with and then check their credentials for yourself.

 

 

 

Thank you Ashley for your reply, I wanted to flag this up with you and OCD-UK because I’m worried this is going to be offered to other OCD sufferers, I feel like this is the case. I can send in a personal email to OCD-UK in relation to what IAPT centre I am with, I know for a fact ‘Dr.Julian’ is being offered to people in Essex as a whole, I don’t know if this is going to be a common thing for other county’s too ? 
 

What upset me was that the clinical lady at my Inclusion IAPT centre raved about how amazing it was, how great it would be for myself too. I’m worried for my fellow OCD sufferers in Essex who don’t know this is the case? I can send screenshots of the app/website and send it to OCD-UK too, as there was only 25 therapists overall on the page, some not even specialising in OCD which I thought was false advertising from the lady I spoke too - as she said the complete opposite. I think because she said straight away ‘it’s a private service the NHS pays for, so you’ll get it for free’ I think that is its selling point, when really it’s far from the truth.

 

Also, something else to add, the names of therapists are on there, however when I tried to research the therapists they didn’t come up on google, like a normal BABCAP accredited therapist would? 

Edited by Summer9173
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On 18/10/2022 at 01:47, Caramoole said:

Never heard of it......but a quick Google search shows it's not "a therapy" as such but a mental well-being App.  The cynical side of me worries it's simply a way of referring people as a means of seeing to be doing something.  A way of offering something in the face of high demand for services and not being in a position to offer one-to-one therapy.  Also, a bit concerned/puzzled about their promotion of/involvement with green/environmental issues, BLM etc.....Not that I have an issue with these, just not sure it's appropriate on an app that's supposed to be firstly dea,ing with mental health issues as it's priority.  Don't see a problem with giving it a try but not if it's simply a way of manipulating figures in a way as being seen to be doing somehing & ticking a box.  By all means see what it has to offer but don't be put off from getting proper one-to-one support and instead having to rely on an app.  

 

On 18/10/2022 at 01:47, Caramoole said:

The cynical side of me worries it's simply a way of referring people as a means of seeing to be doing something.

Agreed. This is basically what it is :( the IAPT clinical lead lady who phoned me about this basically said what you stated above in a more ‘where doing it with the best intention’ type of way, rather than saying it for what it is, a way to get the waiting list moving. She even said their waiting list has never been so short ever since this app/website came into play :( totally not thinking of others!! Again as I stated in my reply to Ashley, I can send the name of my IAPT centre to OCD-UK and screenshots of the app as they gave me a login to test out. However, I am going to go down the route the NICE guidelines have stated. My first course of therapy with IAPT didn’t help, I’m going to try a second time to get referred to secondary care. 

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On 17/10/2022 at 19:32, Veryblue said:

Sorry I should have said I hadn’t heard of it. I did a little research after I saw your post - overwhelmingly very good reviews which I’m always cynical about! Personally I’d do a ton of research into it before committing. Again just me I don’t feel comfortable discussing extremely personal matters in what I consider to be an impersonal way. Also I’d like to think - hope - a therapist really commits to a client and isn’t just in it for the extra money.

Agreed!! I don’t know if I’m just paranoid but I don’t believe they offered me the app out of good intention, rather than just to shorten the waiting list :( 

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20 hours ago, Mini said:

The app enables you to book video appointments with therapists. Or alternatively you can book via their website.
 

The therapists all have at least 2 years clinical experience. They are BABCP accredited and provide CBT. They treat OCD and mention CBT exposure therapy which sounds like ERP. 

They say you are given a list of therapists to choose from before booking your initial session.
 

it depends if you are happy with online video appointments or would like face to face.

Thank you @Mini :) 

As @Ashley asked, yes they do offer text therapy too….. In fact one of the therapists that came up out of the whole 25 therapists they offered only offered text therapy!! I’m going to stick with my usual IAPT therapy I think :) 

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1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Prof Salkovskis replied to me asking in general about this (no names mentioned), he's dubious too.

That’s interesting to hear too. I don’t think I’m going to go down the Dr.Julian route, I just want proper NHS care but I’m glad I brought it up in case somebody else is offered this too, I know a lot of people in the Essex area are being offered this type of therapy for OCD.

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16 hours ago, Summer9173 said:

That’s interesting to hear too. I don’t think I’m going to go down the Dr.Julian route, I just want proper NHS care but I’m glad I brought it up in case somebody else is offered this too, I know a lot of people in the Essex area are being offered this type of therapy for OCD.

Are you ok with me reaching out to your service to challenge them why this is being offered?  I wont mention your name of course I will just refer to a 'patient'.

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2 hours ago, Ashley said:

Are you ok with me reaching out to your service to challenge them why this is being offered?  I wont mention your name of course I will just refer to a 'patient'.

Of course no worries, I’ll send an email with the IAPT number to Laura now :) 

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