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Apple App Advice please (ROCD Issue)


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Apple App Advice please (ROCD Issue)

Hi all, my head is spinning atm and would love some advice if possible

Last night an app game myself and my partner play needed an update and said to him that he needs to go to his apple store to run the update etc.

He did this in front of me reluctantly (more on that in a min) and he couldn't find the update
I then clicked on another page which said "I phone essentials" and Tinder was there with the cloud logo to re download.

My heart dropped and I felt sick. He said that the iPhone remembers everything you download and that he hasn't downloaded it since we have been together. And that was 2 mobiles ago for him. I'm a Samsung owner so didn't know how it works on apple etc. He said that I phone essential shows the biggest apps atm to download. There were other random things like pepper pig game and such.

He said he knew something would happen to trigger me which is why he we went onto the store reluctantly in front of me.

I didn't sleep a wink as I thought he was cheating. He spoke to me this morning about it as he saw I was upset. He swore that he hasn't been on it in 3 years and has no desire to.  And that all he wants is me.

I do believe him but it really triggered me and upset me.
I went on Google about it and it seems you can check somehow on the app store when things were downloaded onto a device, and I briefly spoke about if he has a history function and he said he didn't know.
My mind is now pushing me to ask him to show me his whole phone history to see when it was last downloaded if it is possible to go back 3 years.

But I know in my heart he hasn't been back on. How can I listen to my heart and not my thoughts?

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I hate myself because I'm about to give you major reassurance here, but I've been an iphone user for years and have gone through several iphones. It saves all the apps that you have ever downloaded using your icloud account, not your phone. It's a feature that I find really annoying because I can't really get rid of apps that I got years ago. So you seeing it there with the little cloud to re-download does not mean that he had the app on his current phone.

I know I shouldn't have given you reassurance, but do you see now how you saw something and totally got the wrong end of the stick? And how you shouldn't just make assumptions and go down the rabbit hole?

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38 minutes ago, cam said:

But I know in my heart he hasn't been back on. How can I listen to my heart and not my thoughts?

I feel like, even if he had cheated on you, you'd be going through less heartache than you are now. If the worst really did happen, you could be angry, hurt, talk about it, find a way to move forward. In my view, even that is better than the endless torture of OCD. We think the things we are scared of are the worst things that could ever happen to us, but it's OCD that is the worst thing that has ever happend to us. Stay strong @cam

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19 hours ago, cam said:

But I know in my heart he hasn't been back on. How can I listen to my heart and not my thoughts?

This is always the hard one and why OCD will always push us, to protect the things and people we care about.  It's the same with all OCD symptoms, and why I often say a persons OCD is not different, in that the OCD process is exactly the same, it's pushing us to do compulsions to protect what is important to us, i.e. family, loved ones, pets and in your case the relationship.

Of course this is where some form of behavioural/exposure work is needed to face the uncertainty and doubts head on and resist any temptations.   Think about all things you know about OCD, asking to see evidence is reassurance and OCD will not accept it and demand to see more proof.  That your thoughts today will breed and grow if you give them oxygen today.  Of course I understand the 'feeling' will often override what we know logically about OCD, but when doing exposure work it can helpful to remind ourselves of how OCD works to reinforce what we must do.

Ultimately there is no evidence your partner was unfaithful, an app on the phone does not prove that.  The problem is the more you look to prove he was faithful by looking at history, the more things your OCD will find to convince you otherwise.  The same when I look for evidence i am not contaminated, I find evidence I my OCD convinces me I am contaminated.  I just have to try and work hard to accept doubts and not look for evidence of being contaminated or not, and tell myself I might be a little, so what, I will worry about this when it's a problem and not before.  In your case, try and remember the only fact that I think you need to focus on, it's an app on a phone, doesn't mean he's used the app. 

 

18 hours ago, malina said:

I feel like, even if he had cheated on you, you'd be going through less heartache than you are now. If the worst really did happen, you could be angry, hurt, talk about it, find a way to move forward. In my view, even that is better than the endless torture of OCD.

Malina is not wrong, sometimes (depending on fear and context) the torture of OCD is far greater than the worst case we can imagine. 

 

It's hard I know when the feelings are so strong, I hope you find that peace with this and move on (without compulsions of course). 

Ashley :)

 

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Thank you guys for this fantastic advice and logic.
All was fine and dealt with until last night when he popped onto his email and showed me something in his junk email.
All of the sudden I got stuck on a loop and wanted to see others. 
Then he voluntary showed me a tinder spam email that was there that I didn't even see. He said he would show me incase it became and issue... it has!!.

It was a spam email saying someone has matched with you and click the red button to find out more. The email did look pretty convincing until he showed me the from friend and it was some random made up email that didn't even mention tinder etc.

I have been on Google and seen the same email and people have been getting it as spam. I have never had this email so it's really flaring up my ocd with what ifs.

I spoke to him about it briefly and he said it upsets him that I believe he is on these sites and its clearly spam
 
I want to talk to him again about it but don't know why. Tinder is just a massive trigger and I do trust him. Do I just try and let this go? I'm feeling super anxious today and I have a massive work meeting tomorrow with my new area manager that is getting to me 

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2 hours ago, cam said:

Thank you guys for this fantastic advice and logic.
All was fine and dealt with until last night when he popped onto his email and showed me something in his junk email.
All of the sudden I got stuck on a loop and wanted to see others. 
Then he voluntary showed me a tinder spam email that was there that I didn't even see. He said he would show me incase it became and issue... it has!!.

It was a spam email saying someone has matched with you and click the red button to find out more. The email did look pretty convincing until he showed me the from friend and it was some random made up email that didn't even mention tinder etc.

I have been on Google and seen the same email and people have been getting it as spam. I have never had this email so it's really flaring up my ocd with what ifs.

I spoke to him about it briefly and he said it upsets him that I believe he is on these sites and its clearly spam
 
I want to talk to him again about it but don't know why. Tinder is just a massive trigger and I do trust him. Do I just try and let this go? I'm feeling super anxious today and I have a massive work meeting tomorrow with my new area manager that is getting to me 

I think it's less about letting something go but more about letting the thoughts be and focusing on what you can control - your responses to them. The difficulty is that you are striving for absolute certainty that your partner isn't being unfaithful/using Tinder and the more you try and find that certainty, the less certain you'll become. 

I know that when I have a particular topic that OCD makes me obsessed with, that I see 'evidence' of it EVERYWHERE. I go into hyper vigilance mode and my mind will exaggerate anything possible to make me keep checking and searching for answers. The fact is that it's not attainable and we torment ourselves trying to attain it.

I can imagine that whilst trying to appease your OCD, the reassurance your partner is giving is actually fuelling it (with good intentions). My partner has done this too. I used to get him to check things for me because I didn't trust my own judgment and make him sit there and go through scenarios step by step to reassure me. It only made it worse and he was exhausted from trying to make me feel better but only to make it worse.

Something that is currently helping me is to acknowledge the thoughts when they come, acknowledge that they make me feel horrible. Take a step back and actively choose to let them be there without the checks, reassurance, confessing etc and to continue with what I was doing before. This can make it feel worse at first but they do lose their sting with practice. I accept that 'maybe this is happening or maybe it isn't' but I'm choosing to live as I want and IF an issue arises, I will deal with it then.

 

 

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You are definitely right. You do see the trigger Everywhere!!

Thanks so much for your reply @determination987

I think deep down the main issue is that he didn't type tinder in his search bar on his emails to show me if he had other emails from them..said this was the only one he had seen)

I did a search on mine and there were tinder emails from before we met 3 years ago and you could see the difference in email quality. Spam etc.

But my mind has latched onto why he didn't do the same to show me and I really want to ask him but scared it will cause distress

My mind is trying to convince me he has something to hide

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17 minutes ago, cam said:

You are definitely right. You do see the trigger Everywhere!!

Thanks so much for your reply @determination987

I think deep down the main issue is that he didn't type tinder in his search bar on his emails to show me if he had other emails from them..said this was the only one he had seen)

I did a search on mine and there were tinder emails from before we met 3 years ago and you could see the difference in email quality. Spam etc.

But my mind has latched onto why he didn't do the same to show me and I really want to ask him but scared it will cause distress

My mind is trying to convince me he has something to hide

I think the real issue is OCD convincing you that you NEED to know this. The checks are keeping you stuck ( checking your own emails, checking your partners etc) and even if you got what you were searching for, a new ‘what if’ will likely pop up in its place or it will love to a new scenario. 

Ultimately, you can choose to keep checking which will keep you in the cycle or you can choose to take the risk and live your life. 

I know it feels like you’ll feel better if you do those ‘final’ checks and see for sure but it won’t. It will keep you doing the same. The relief will likely be temporary and new what ifs will pop up - ‘what if he deleted them’ etc. 

Try and focus on what YOU want to do. What would you be doing if the anxiety wasn’t present? Try and focus on the present and deal with issues as they arise. Try and enjoy the time with your partner and when those thoughts pop up, acknowledge they’re there but see if you can leave them be (not push them away) and live the life you want to.

Try and practice some self care too and be kind to yourself - OCD is really hard. It feels completely neglectful I know but remember that thoughts are thoughts, not facts. You can let them go and continue with your life as best as you can. 

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Thanks so much again for your help and your words really do make sense. My mind would totally think "what if he deleted them" so weird you knew lol

The hardest part is now keeping this all to myself and not confessing it to him. A pointless act and will cause distress on the relationship.  What techniques do you use if you don't mind on stopping these urges. Thank you for being patient 🙏  @determination987

 

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1 hour ago, cam said:

Thanks so much again for your help and your words really do make sense. My mind would totally think "what if he deleted them" so weird you knew lol

The hardest part is now keeping this all to myself and not confessing it to him. A pointless act and will cause distress on the relationship.  What techniques do you use if you don't mind on stopping these urges. Thank you for being patient 🙏  @determination987

 

I think when I tried to stop the urges it made it worse but rather I now note the urge if that makes sense.

So, you’re with your partner and he’s on his phone and the thought pops up ‘what if he’s been on Tinder’ and your anxiety spikes and the urge to check, confess the thoughts, ask for reassurance kicks in.

Instead of your usual default - compulsion, try and take a step back and note ‘I can see that the urge to find this out is really strong and I’m feeling really anxious’. Then continue with what you were doing before the thought came. The thoughts will likely still be there but that’s okay and you’ll feel horrendous at first but with practice you’ll accept that the compulsions change nothing. 

You can cope with the uncertainty of it. I know it can feel like you can’t but you can. It just takes practice. 

I started working on self compassion too. I had really low self-worth so it was ideal for OCD to take over. I started treating myself like I deserve things even when it felt like I didn’t and over time it’s been getting better. 

I ask myself ‘what would I do if the anxiety wasn’t there?’ And then I do that. So if you weren’t anxious about Tinder, would you be checking or asking your partner to show you their phone? Look at what you’d do without the anxiety and try and do it.

In therapy, I had to categorise thoughts as hypothetical or real. Essentially, if it starts with a ‘what if’, I note that it’s hypothetical and I don’t need to pay it any attention. I can deal with it if the problem actually happens. If I stop it at the initial what if, it feels less sticky and the cycling of it reduces really quickly. 

You can’t choose the thoughts but you can choose your reactions to them :) 

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On 27/03/2023 at 18:09, determination987 said:

I think when I tried to stop the urges it made it worse but rather I now note the urge if that makes sense.

So, you’re with your partner and he’s on his phone and the thought pops up ‘what if he’s been on Tinder’ and your anxiety spikes and the urge to check, confess the thoughts, ask for reassurance kicks in.

Instead of your usual default - compulsion, try and take a step back and note ‘I can see that the urge to find this out is really strong and I’m feeling really anxious’. Then continue with what you were doing before the thought came. The thoughts will likely still be there but that’s okay and you’ll feel horrendous at first but with practice you’ll accept that the compulsions change nothing. 

You can cope with the uncertainty of it. I know it can feel like you can’t but you can. It just takes practice. 

I started working on self compassion too. I had really low self-worth so it was ideal for OCD to take over. I started treating myself like I deserve things even when it felt like I didn’t and over time it’s been getting better. 

I ask myself ‘what would I do if the anxiety wasn’t there?’ And then I do that. So if you weren’t anxious about Tinder, would you be checking or asking your partner to show you their phone? Look at what you’d do without the anxiety and try and do it.

In therapy, I had to categorise thoughts as hypothetical or real. Essentially, if it starts with a ‘what if’, I note that it’s hypothetical and I don’t need to pay it any attention. I can deal with it if the problem actually happens. If I stop it at the initial what if, it feels less sticky and the cycling of it reduces really quickly. 

You can’t choose the thoughts but you can choose your reactions to them :) 

I love the "what if" statement and thats very true. 

So my mind is like "what if he was still on tinder after we agreed to come off it together" 

and the main issue was "why didn't he do a search on his emails when I did? For previous corosdopance 

That's what the ocd has latched onto and it still want me to ask him but it's just my mind is assuming he wouldn't show me. Kinda stuck on that

Thanks again for your reply. Only just seen your message x

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23 minutes ago, cam said:

I love the "what if" statement and thats very true. 

So my mind is like "what if he was still on tinder after we agreed to come off it together" 

and the main issue was "why didn't he do a search on his emails when I did? For previous corosdopance 

That's what the ocd has latched onto and it still want me to ask him but it's just my mind is assuming he wouldn't show me. Kinda stuck on that

Thanks again for your reply. Only just seen your message x

Okay, so see if you can practice letting go of chasing certainty of it all (lots of discomfort I know) and focus on what you want to focus on instead. What would you be doing if you could choose to not be stuck on this? 

It’s hard, I honestly know but maybe work on reducing or delaying searching for answers and give yourself a break. You can have a break :) 

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So each time it pops into my head focus on what I was doing? Watching film etc.

The urge to confess it is so hard at times. I think he can sense something is wrong also cry8

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3 hours ago, cam said:

So each time it pops into my head focus on what I was doing? Watching film etc.

The urge to confess it is so hard at times. I think he can sense something is wrong also cry8

It’s okay to have support. Whilst reassurance can keep you stuck, acknowledging that you’re struggling with how hard OCD is and that you need support is fine. You deserve support.

It’s more about choosing a reaction to the thoughts that doesn’t keep you stuck and allows you to live your life.
 

So in my case: if I was watching a film and I got a thought ‘what if I messed up a form and now I owe thousands of pounds’. The urge to check and the anxiety is there but instead of running to check paperwork and checking over and over, asking others to check and reassure me… I choose to acknowledge them ‘ah I’m feeling the urge to check I’ve done nothing wrong and I feel really anxious but i know that leads me into a checking spiral. Im going to just park the thought there for now, take the risk and watch the film anyway.

With practice, by the time I’ve watched the film that urge has gone and I don’t feel the need to check again.

That’s just an example but it’s been really helpful for me. Allow yourself to be present. It’s hard - habits take a while to break but it does get easier :) 

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Looking through his phone infers you two have trust stuff you need to work on.  I don't believe you can blame OCD for the phone snooping. A lot of people do it that don't have OCD but do have trust stuff needing work.

First 2 months of a relationship the brain turns off the amygdala, or red flag center, & by month 3 it's back on & red flags appear.  

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8 hours ago, Handy said:

First 2 months of a relationship the brain turns off the amygdala, or red flag center, & by month 3 it's back on & red flags appear.  

Handy, how does this help Cam? :dry:

Even if you're talking about the 'rose-tinted spectacles' effect of being in love, your response implies that Cam's problem is based in a lack of trust. It isn't. :no:

He has OCD. His thinking is skewed, and he does compulsive behaviours to reduce the anxiety that skewed thinking creates.

I know you mean well, but please try to keep in mind that this scientific stuff you like about the workings of different parts of the brain aren't always relevant. It's OCD that  is the real problem. 

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I totally get that. We were both in 12 year relationships before we met (spooky I know) and I got cheated on at the end so I know where my trust issues come from.

My partner would never cheat on me as he knows what we have both been through and I know this deep in my heart.

I wish I could listen to that instead of my head when situations like this arrise

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On 30/03/2023 at 13:17, cam said:

I wish I could listen to that instead of my head when situations like this arrise

I think the problem is that there is no point in trying to reason with OCD because it will always throw in something new for you to doubt. That is just how it works. I mean it's not physically outside the realmn of all possibility for your partner to cheat on you and that little seed of something being even remotely humanly possible is all OCD needs to grow into full blown anxiety (if you let it).

so now that OCD has fixated on this theme, it will find ways to make you believe that it's possible. The only way out of this is to stop responding to OCD's alarm bells. It will throw a lot of things at you, which will make you feel awfu and make you believe that it's all true, but you just have to stop responding. It's really like dealing with a bully, ignore it and eventually it will get bored and go away. I think you're just still stuck in the cycle of doing compulsions at the moment and it's very hard to get out of that.

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