I’m living with guilt and shame

[Spicypepper]

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum. I’m going through a bit of a difficult time in my head at the minute but it’s not bad all the time, I feel like I could write this differently at different points of the day depending on how anxious I feel.

I’m not sure if this is OCD again or if I am using it as an excuse because it’s painful to realise my actions may have exacerbated my thoughts and feelings in a way. 
 

I get this feeling a lot where I go through life being careful and trying to be morally good- I think a part of it is scrupulosity. But then, on some random day I get triggered and look back and my view changes of my actions and then I think or see I’ve been irresponsible but it’s too late to change.

I’ve had instructive thoughts on a particular topic for 3 months now. I’ve had some reassurance from mental health phone lines but I don’t fully believe them. I feel like it’ll start affecting my relationship so I may need to talk to someone about the OCD faster. I have been offered CBT online programme.

I have been offered NHS therapy before and I was too terrified and backed out at the last minute, I shouldn’t have done that, but what’s done is done.

Thanks for reading.

[Ashley]

2 hours ago, Spicypepper said:

I’ve had instructive thoughts on a particular topic for 3 months now. I’ve had some reassurance from mental health phone lines but I don’t fully believe them. I feel like it’ll start affecting my relationship so I may need to talk to someone about the OCD faster. I have been offered CBT online programme.

Hello and welcome to the forums Spicypepper.

Sadly when it comes to OCD a lot of generic mental health lines give the reassurance, but that in itself is not helpful for those of us with OCD and the problem remains, the doubts and uncertainty increases as does the need for more reassurance.

It's great that you have recognised your need for help with the OCD, and don't worry I think many of us have been guilty at one time or another of being afraid to do the therapy, but hopefully this time you will feel able to go ahead.  The good news is that with good support and advice from a therapist that fully understands OCD that people can and do get better. 

However, you mention the CBT online programme, did they clarify what that is?  If it's just an automated online CBT course that is most likely not going to offer much, so I do recommend accessing face-to-face therapy (one-on-one) with a therapist, or at the very least that could be done online if face-to-face is too hard at this time.  Is your therapy through the local NHS IAPT/Talking Therapies service?

With best wishes,   Ashley.

[determination987]

2 hours ago, Spicypepper said:

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum. I’m going through a bit of a difficult time in my head at the minute but it’s not bad all the time, I feel like I could write this differently at different points of the day depending on how anxious I feel.

I’m not sure if this is OCD again or if I am using it as an excuse because it’s painful to realise my actions may have exacerbated my thoughts and feelings in a way. 
 

I get this feeling a lot where I go through life being careful and trying to be morally good- I think a part of it is scrupulosity. But then, on some random day I get triggered and look back and my view changes of my actions and then I think or see I’ve been irresponsible but it’s too late to change.

I’ve had instructive thoughts on a particular topic for 3 months now. I’ve had some reassurance from mental health phone lines but I don’t fully believe them. I feel like it’ll start affecting my relationship so I may need to talk to someone about the OCD faster. I have been offered CBT online programme.

I have been offered NHS therapy before and I was too terrified and backed out at the last minute, I shouldn’t have done that, but what’s done is done.

Thanks for reading.

Hi,

Sorry to hear that you’re feeling this way. I have this too. I feel like I carry this deep sense of shame over experiences in the past that are massively over exaggerated in my mind. It’s easier to look back with hindsight and apply what we know now but it’s not accurate and it’s not necessary. I know that feeling when I’m feeling better and suddenly they don’t seem so bad but when I’m feeling low, they seem catastrophic and evidence I’m a bad person and then ocd takes hold and it’s on a loop and then the checking and reassurance seeking kicks in.

You can change the way you respond to the thoughts through CBT . It takes time and practice but you deserve to live in the present and how you want to live. 
 

The reassurances are likely making it worse because it only provides temporary relief but then it comes back and keeps you seeking it. Try and take a step back from the thoughts of you can. Don’t will them away but acknowledge them and how they make you feel but continue to do what you want to do in the present moment.

The thoughts are just thoughts and not facts. This applies to real memories too. Give yourself permission to let them be and do something nice for yourself. You get to choose how you respond to the thoughts. You can keep trying to ‘fix’ them and gain certainty that you’re not immoral etc or you can choose to let them be and to live right now with the values you want to live by.

OCD massively exaggerates scenarios as it gains our attention. Try to avoid analysing the thoughts where possible and come back to the present where you are right now.

I hope the CBT goes well. I was so nervous when I started but I can see that it’s really helping. Self help book have been a real help too 

[Spicypepper]

6 hours ago, Ashley said:However, you mention the CBT online programme, did they clarify what that is?  If it's just an automated online CBT course that is most likely not going to offer much, so I do recommend accessing face-to-face therapy (one-on-one) with a therapist, or at the very least that could be done online if face-to-face is too hard at this time.  Is your therapy through the local NHS IAPT/Talking Therapies service?

With best wishes,   Ashley.

Hi Ashley, thank you for your response.
 

I’m not diagnosed with ocd but the first therapist I was offered was after a 23 min talk with a mental health professional, I can’t remember her role but it was for IAPT and I’d done an assessment on OCD too. She said I’d show OCD thoughts but not to dwell on it.

The recent offer is through my Employee Assistance Programme at work EAP and it’s silver cloud mental health program CBT I think…

The industry I work in is VERY safety conscious so it encourages a lot of the behaviours that would feed into moral scrupulosity (not what my original post was about but another factor!).

[Spicypepper]

@determination987 hi determination, thank you so much for taking the time for this reply, it really helped me put things into perspective.

Funnily enough I’ve had a lot of work stress the last couple of days and that means I’ve had minimal thoughts about my ‘theme’, makes me feel it isn’t real anyway. Or that my brain is at a level of stress where no other thought can get in lol!

 

[determination987]

12 hours ago, Spicypepper said:

@determination987 hi determination, thank you so much for taking the time for this reply, it really helped me put things into perspective.

Funnily enough I’ve had a lot of work stress the last couple of days and that means I’ve had minimal thoughts about my ‘theme’, makes me feel it isn’t real anyway. Or that my brain is at a level of stress where no other thought can get in lol!

 

I find that too. As soon as an actual problem comes up, the hypothetical ones seem insignificant.

 

[Spicypepper]

I feel so bad this morning, mornings are the worst for me. 
 

I’ve been having suicidal ideation, not plans but the ideation is more frequent. I really am not sure about all this, I think I may have just screwed up and need to face the consequences. Im stuck because I need to talk to someone but I really can only talk to someone who isn’t OCD focussed in the short term (through offered therapy). I do have some money for private therapy but I always feel I’m not bad enough or reluctant and guilty for spending the money.

I’m so scared that someone will tell me that I have to tell my partner and I’ve ruined my life and chances to stay with them. I feel like I can only talk to someone really compassionate that will tell me the truth of the situation but handle it nicely. I posted on Reddit a few weeks ago and some people said I’d betrayed my boyfriend and they didn’t even know all the details, so it’s there, black and white.

I really don’t want to lose him, I love him so much. But also the pain if I am keeping something from him is so shameful. I feel like it will build up and I’ll blurt stuff out, not even in the best way.

[determination987]

1 hour ago, Spicypepper said:

I feel so bad this morning, mornings are the worst for me. 
 

I’ve been having suicidal ideation, not plans but the ideation is more frequent. I really am not sure about all this, I think I may have just screwed up and need to face the consequences. Im stuck because I need to talk to someone but I really can only talk to someone who isn’t OCD focussed in the short term (through offered therapy). I do have some money for private therapy but I always feel I’m not bad enough or reluctant and guilty for spending the money.

I’m so scared that someone will tell me that I have to tell my partner and I’ve ruined my life and chances to stay with them. I feel like I can only talk to someone really compassionate that will tell me the truth of the situation but handle it nicely. I posted on Reddit a few weeks ago and some people said I’d betrayed my boyfriend and they didn’t even know all the details, so it’s there, black and white.

I really don’t want to lose him, I love him so much. But also the pain if I am keeping something from him is so shameful. I feel like it will build up and I’ll blurt stuff out, not even in the best way.

Sorry you’re feeling like this. 

I know it’s really hard and I know it feels like you don’t deserve things but try acting like you do anyway. What would you if you felt good enough? Would that be seeking therapy - through services or private? I felt like I wasn’t bad (OCD) enough too but I’m so glad I took the leap. I’ve found so many driving forces and tools to deal with it and that feeling of shame is reducing. 

It may help to try self help books? Have you tried any? I found this so helpful at first and they helped me to understand the cycle of what was happening and how the compulsions were keeping me stuck there.

Online forums for reassurance is likely going to trigger you further and never give you the certainty you need. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks - they’re just thoughts too. Working on your confidence and self esteem may help here to trust in your own self and to live your life how you want.

[Cora]

Hi @Spicypepper,

I'm really sorry that you're struggling at the moment. I suck at giving advice but I wanted to say that your post described me and my life so well that I could have written it myself. 

I wish you strength and all the best! 

[Spicypepper]

@determination987 hi determination. Thank you.

At the minute I’m not even getting anxiety but I know I’m still practicing some compulsions in my head. I truly think I could just be kidding myself and it’s not OCD. Although it did start off from a trigger at Xmas last year and then 4 months of one persons name stuck in my head- rarely anything else just name or image of them. I sometimes get thoughts ‘you love him more than your boyfriend’ I don’t even love him! I thought it could be similar to limerence but I don’t actually have the longing for reciprocation so I don’t think it is.

I’m getting thoughts of just scratching my skin hard to get rid of the thoughts, but I don’t do it. Sometimes they’re gone for a while and I get relief but then I think about how they’re gone and they’re back.

I think it’s worse because my boyfriend is currently ill with depression and anxiety and off work, so more stress leads to ruminating. 

[determination987]

2 hours ago, Spicypepper said:

@determination987 hi determination. Thank you.

At the minute I’m not even getting anxiety but I know I’m still practicing some compulsions in my head. I truly think I could just be kidding myself and it’s not OCD. Although it did start off from a trigger at Xmas last year and then 4 months of one persons name stuck in my head- rarely anything else just name or image of them. I sometimes get thoughts ‘you love him more than your boyfriend’ I don’t even love him! I thought it could be similar to limerence but I don’t actually have the longing for reciprocation so I don’t think it is.

I’m getting thoughts of just scratching my skin hard to get rid of the thoughts, but I don’t do it. Sometimes they’re gone for a while and I get relief but then I think about how they’re gone and they’re back.

I think it’s worse because my boyfriend is currently ill with depression and anxiety and off work, so more stress leads to ruminating. 

Hi,

I think most people with OCD doubt if it’s OCD at times because doubt is its hallmark. I think we want to know for certain that it’s OCD because we can struggle to tolerate uncertainty which then fuels the need to check/ruminate etc. 

It’s hard but it’s not about figuring out the thoughts and what they are or mean but about letting the thoughts be and not trying to figure them out. Rumination feels automatic but you can choose to stop it (it’s really hard, I know but it is possible). With practice, it gets easier to let go of figuring it out but maybe start with noticing yourself doing it then watching what your mind wants you to do. Take a step back and leave the thoughts but continue what you would be doing if the thoughts weren’t there. What would you want to be doing? 
 

We can’t stop thoughts - thought stopping will mean they come back stronger. What we resist, persists. I know you don’t want them there but the thoughts aren’t the problem, it’s the importance and the way you’re responding to them that is. That’s what’s keeping them cycling.

Stress does make it hard I know. See if you can make some time for yourself to do something nice for yourself. Give yourself permission to do things that make you feel good.

Practice kindness and compassion towards yourself. It’s not easy and you deserve to acknowledge that and reward yourself for your efforts.

Take it one step at a time. Small steps really do go a long way. When you catch yourself checking about how the thoughts have gone and they come back, take a step back if you can and recognise what your brain is doing. Then choose to keep going with your day without responding to them. It hurts. It feels awful but over time it hurts less and even feels empowering when you realise that you’ve got a choice on how to respond to them.

[Spicypepper]

Hi everyone, I’m calmer now but I felt a really strong urge that I needed to do something about my theme and life can’t go on this way knowing the thoughts I am having. Writing this is making me more anxious. I feel like I'm in a dream sometimes and living a double life.

I really want to talk to an OCD focussed therapist and just confess it all, let it out and see what they say. I want relief, either way, if my life has to change then maybe that’s better than the guilt. But I know if I have a session like that I probably can’t sign up for just one. I can ring the employee assistance line again but I confessed twice to them already, two different people didn’t seem to think it was bad but they could just be saying that to make me feel better. I feel like some of my life is just tainted now and I don’t get to enjoy it fully because of my thoughts and potentially feelings? I’m just really kidding myself. I actually had suicidal ideation about this.

[determination987]

9 hours ago, Spicypepper said:

they could just be saying that to make me feel better.

This shows how it’s never enough. OCD will come up with countless possibilities as to why the reassurance is wrong if you let it. That’s the problem with reassurance. It doesn’t work and will keep you stuck. You can never be certain because certainty doesn’t exist. Life is full of endless possibilities and even if we know something is 99.9% true, there’s always the 0.1% that OCD will fixate on.

An OCD therapist will help you gain confidence in yourself and in changing your responses to the thoughts. The situation/thought/past memory etc isn’t the problem but the significance and obsessiveness of it. OCD is the problem. 

I can relate to your post and I still get those feelings but with practice they aren’t as overpowering as they once were. I’ve learned to accept them and the fact that I get to live my life anyway. OCD neglects to understand that I can handle difficult things. In a real, current life situation I get on with it and problem solve as necessary before moving on. It’s the ‘what ifs’ and uncertainty that OCD thinks we can’t cope with but we can. 
 

Try and practice as before and try to bring your mind back to the present when the urges to call and seek reassurance starts. Be kind to yourself and apply yourself the same compassion that you would others. Nothing means that you deserve to torture yourself and that’s what OCD does. Give yourself a very deserved break 

[Spicypepper]

@determination987 thank you so much for always replying and being so kind. I just read your response again and I feel it is sinking in a bit. I guess no matter what the thing is, OCD response isn’t an appropriate way to deal with it? It always just feels like it isn’t resolved and would be irresponsible to leave it sometimes. 

 

[determination987]

10 minutes ago, Spicypepper said:

@determination987 thank you so much for always replying and being so kind. I just read your response again and I feel it is sinking in a bit. I guess no matter what the thing is, OCD response isn’t an appropriate way to deal with it? It always just feels like it isn’t resolved and would be irresponsible to leave it sometimes. 

 

Yes. It does feel that way (I honestly know just how irresponsible it feels) but it’s a feeling and not a fact. No matter what the obsession is about, compulsions will not change anything. They only cause you further distress.

You’ll never find the answer you’re looking for and you don’t need to. Accept that it may have been bad or maybe not but ultimately it’s irrelevant to the present. You don’t need to give it any more attention and can choose to live how you want now. 

Focus on how you feel about yourself and work on building up confidence in knowing that you can cope and be kind to yourself and you don’t need to do anything at all to be worthy of that. 

[Spicypepper]

@determination987 the only thing is, there does seem to be a line where something is bad enough. Like if someone sleeps with someone else whilst in a monogamous relationship, would this advice still stand? Because surely the other partner needs to know. I haven’t done that or anything close. It makes me think though that there must be a line.

I’m rambling now but maybe the difference is that you know that isn’t right before or straight after you do it but with OCD the memory ‘becomes sour’ months or years later and your thoughts about it change in a way. But it’s hard to force yourself to think like you did before the obsession took hold.

[determination987]

30 minutes ago, Spicypepper said:

@determination987 the only thing is, there does seem to be a line where something is bad enough. Like if someone sleeps with someone else whilst in a monogamous relationship, would this advice still stand? Because surely the other partner needs to know. I haven’t done that or anything close. It makes me think though that there must be a line.

I’m rambling now but maybe the difference is that you know that isn’t right before or straight after you do it but with OCD the memory ‘becomes sour’ months or years later and your thoughts about it change in a way. But it’s hard to force yourself to think like you did before the obsession took hold.

The advice does still stand because you treat it all the same. OCD whether centred around a real event or a completely hypothetical one is still OCD.

The scenario you gave wouldn’t change anything in my advice. If you do something ‘bad’ (what one determines is bad differs but remember that OCD tends to really exaggerate what is bad) then you deal with it at the time. You learn from it, decide it’s not how you want to be if that’s the case and you move on from it. 

Obsessing, berating yourself and punishing yourself constantly changes nothing but actually takes you away from the person you want to be right now. 

We are not a sun of our actions. Most people will feel guilt in their lives and they move past it. It may pop up at times in their lives but they generally move on quickly and chalk it up to a mistake or experience that they don’t want to repeat. They don’t endlessly examine whether they’re a good or bad person. Good or bad people don’t exist. We are people that are capable of both good and bad. 
 

Try not to get obsessed with the scenario but see if you can spot the OCD cycle in what you’re doing. Don’t try and reassure yourself of whether what you did wasn’t as bad as that etc because that’s OCD trying to figure it out and it’s keeping you stuck. You don’t need to think like you did at the time because you’re not there and you’ve evolved since then. It doesn’t matter. What does matter is how you treat yourself now

[Spicypepper]

Hi @determination987 what if it’s not just the past actions though. I’m so confused within myself because I feel my actions have led to me thinking more about this person and there are feelings alongside that? I’m really confused if they are or not and how much is real. I feel really vulnerable writing this as I feel I have ruined my future as I want it. And I’m not living truthfully now. I don’t see this person now at all but I feel like I’m kidding myself or something. I’m so scared it’s real because I get thoughts that it’s shameful and it’s the same as hiding a sexuality because you don’t want people to know- like a shameful hiding. E.g that the feelings are real but you can’t tell anyone. But I couldn’t describe any feelings. I just don’t want them at all. Confessing them to my partner would ruin everything. 

[determination987]

1 hour ago, Spicypepper said:

Hi @determination987 what if it’s not just the past actions though. I’m so confused within myself because I feel my actions have led to me thinking more about this person and there are feelings alongside that? I’m really confused if they are or not and how much is real. I feel really vulnerable writing this as I feel I have ruined my future as I want it. And I’m not living truthfully now. I don’t see this person now at all but I feel like I’m kidding myself or something. I’m so scared it’s real because I get thoughts that it’s shameful and it’s the same as hiding a sexuality because you don’t want people to know- like a shameful hiding. E.g that the feelings are real but you can’t tell anyone. But I couldn’t describe any feelings. I just don’t want them at all. Confessing them to my partner would ruin everything. 

Whatever your thoughts or feelings are, they’re okay. It’s okay to have any type of thought or feeling - you can’t control them. 
 

I understand being confused and I know how it can be difficult to trust ourselves with a disorder that makes us doubt everything but try and allow yourself a break. You don’t need to have everything figured out just yet. 
 

I find it helpful to accept that whatever has happened or I feel is happening is okay and that I can cope with it but I’m going to live as I want right now.

[Spicypepper]

@determination987 okay, thank you. I tried a bit of an exposure today but I think I’ll continue to look for a therapist as my self-esteem is low. It all feels so silly as I have a good life so I should just enjoy it I guess.

[determination987]

9 minutes ago, Spicypepper said:

@determination987 okay, thank you. I tried a bit of an exposure today but I think I’ll continue to look for a therapist as my self-esteem is low. It all feels so silly as I have a good life so I should just enjoy it I guess.

I know how it feels. It’s really hard and you’re doing great, no matter how much OCD says otherwise. Definitely worth working on self-esteem   

Practice compassion too. Try giving yourself the same compassion as others and not judging yourself so harshly. Building up self-esteem will help with that too

[Spicypepper]

3 hours ago, determination987 said:

I know how it feels. It’s really hard and you’re doing great, no matter how much OCD says otherwise. Definitely worth working on self-esteem   

Practice compassion too. Try giving yourself the same compassion as others and not judging yourself so harshly. Building up self-esteem will help with that too

Thank you so much @determination987 you don’t know how much this means to me. I’m just spending time with my family, we lost our dog a few weeks ago and I’m trying to let myself feel without analysing that too.

Wishing you all the best.

[determination987]

1 hour ago, Spicypepper said:

Thank you so much @determination987 you don’t know how much this means to me. I’m just spending time with my family, we lost our dog a few weeks ago and I’m trying to let myself feel without analysing that too.

Wishing you all the best.

So sorry for your loss. 
Wishing you the best too. Take care  

[Spicypepper]

I am making myself feel bad about myself and I’m not sure why. 
 

When you feel like you need to do something RIGHT NOW to solve this or the only option is something drastic, is that the amygdala going haywire? Do I just ignore it?

My partners mum is taking us on holiday and I always feel guilty and get triggered on the days coming up to holidays. I go on quite a few and feel guilty I get this chance but I do really appreciate them. 
 

I spoke to a therapist this morning and then I felt fine so I always get so confused over what I’m making a fuss over, it’s very episodic. I do feel it can’t be normal to sometimes get suicidal thoughts about my past mistakes. 

[Cora]

Hi @Spicypepper, 

Firstly, thank you for replying on my post a few days ago and I'm sorry I didn't answer (I posted/confessed something new in a panic and then I felt slightly awkward to reply to you). 

I don't have any advice to offer but I just wanted to say that I completely understand how you feel. Although for me it's for a different reason, I always feel guilty when my boyfriend's family treat me with such great love and kindness, and spoil me with gifts whenever there's a chance. I now feel guilty more than ever (after something I've done and posted about) because my birthday is approaching and I know I will receive lots of presents, care and attention. I'm trying to not think about it but it's difficult not to. 

I also understand when you say that you make yourself feel bad about yourself. I think that happens to me on a daily basis.

I'm wishing you the best and I hope you enjoy your holiday, even just for a little bit if you can.