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I really don't know what to do,I have abused her with my confessions and she abuses me in many ways with her response,and still even with all this going on I still feel the need to confess so much more,I hate this illness, unfortunately my wife has the same veiw as my ex care coordinator in that if you should only think of your partner,I know there's to veiws,I've tried so hard for her to understand,she went on an OCD sight and the things she read made her worse,I tell her to read about how commen fantasies are,she refuses,I'm just demonised

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21 minutes ago, Nolightleft said:

,I've tried so hard for her to understand,she went on an OCD sight and the things she read made her worse,I tell her to read about how commen fantasies are,she refuses,I'm just demonised

But that's on her not on you. If by presenting the information, she doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of it then there's nothing you can do about it. You can't control what she thinks but that doesn't mean that you have to have your wife's views (which it appears you don't). 

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1 hour ago, Nolightleft said:

I really don't know what to do,I have abused her with my confessions and she abuses me in many ways with her response,and still even with all this going on I still feel the need to confess so much more,I hate this illness, unfortunately my wife has the same veiw as my ex care coordinator in that if you should only think of your partner,I know there's to veiws,I've tried so hard for her to understand,she went on an OCD sight and the things she read made her worse,I tell her to read about how commen fantasies are,she refuses,I'm just demonised

I suppose you have to ask yourself the questions.

Do you enjoy those fantasies and do you enjoy having an imaginative fantasy world?

Do you feel like you're living two lives, the one where you are who you are and are at ease with that?

Or are you trying to be what other people think you should be? (many people are, it's called things like; conforming, compromising, lying, etc)

Is that conflict the real source of your problems?

@bluegas I think it's good to have individual and unique viewpoints(just don't take it personally).

I also think(despite what some others say), that we are all unique from our genetic code to our psychology.

Each person is unique, and in just the same way as a diagnosis is made based on; family history, personal history, personality, symptoms and issues, then it's the same with treatment.

So a person might after diagnosis be refered to different therapies for low to mid level issues and psychologists or psychiatrists for more complicated(constellation) issues.

Only if it works for you does it work.

 

Edited by howard
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With the fantasies,I don't even know if I enjoyed them,they were just something to get through a sexless relationship,never would want any in reality but 5he more lack of intimacy the more I did,not proud of it obviously as it's destroyed me.

 Yes I feel 2 different lives because my honesty has hurt my partner so much.

it all comes down to me sharing to much,I know from friends shrinks,doctors that it is so called normal and why we do it but I also have a debilitating need to be 100 % honest or I am a fraud and lyer 

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1 minute ago, Nolightleft said:

With the fantasies,I don't even know if I enjoyed them,they were just something to get through a sexless relationship,never would want any in reality but 5he more lack of intimacy the more I did,not proud of it obviously as it's destroyed me.

 Yes I feel 2 different lives because my honesty has hurt my partner so much.

it all comes down to me sharing to much,I know from friends shrinks,doctors that it is so called normal and why we do it but I also have a debilitating need to be 100 % honest or I am a fraud and lyer 

So there is an important distinction there isn't there. Your doctors/therapists told you all of this was normal. Your friends too and yet it's not enough. Somehow the shame and guilt of just your wife not understanding the reality of it was enough to be this consistent burden. As for the last part, you know the OCD logic there. If you don't do X compulsion you must be a horrible person or in your case a fraud and a liar. I think to some degree, acknowledging that your wife isn't going to agree and at least from my perspective refuses to be open to any alternative view on this for what it is is super important. You don't have to agree with it. Your psychologist doesn't. Your doctor doesn't. Your care coordinator was terrible so that persons opinion can go out the window as far as I'm concerned. Accepting there are different views but somewhere in all that is what you believe about it. I'm thinking of some examples that people would have these competitively different views as I'm writing this. I guess what I'm saying is it sounds like what you value about that/believe about fantasies is in there as you are showing it.

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22 minutes ago, Nolightleft said:

With the fantasies,I don't even know if I enjoyed them,they were just something to get through a sexless relationship,never would want any in reality but 5he more lack of intimacy the more I did,not proud of it obviously as it's destroyed me.

 Yes I feel 2 different lives because my honesty has hurt my partner so much.

it all comes down to me sharing to much,I know from friends shrinks,doctors that it is so called normal and why we do it but I also have a debilitating need to be 100 % honest or I am a fraud and lyer 

I'm sure people fantasise or use their imaginations for many reasons. 

So if you accept that, then the key is dealing with how to just accept that and don't feel some 'moral' repercussions afterwards.

The Scupulosity OCD aspect.

Long term relationships(husband/wife) are quite a recent phenomena in human relationships, and they are based on compromise, conforming to some degree and even not telling the truth all the time.

Again you just have to accept that a husband and wife are two completely unique human beings, both compromising and conforming to some norm.(either theirs or what's expected of the socially) 

They only show the part of their personality that they want the other to see. Anything else is part or your unique internal psychology.

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This is a good time to remind everyone that NLL's problem has NOTHING to do with fantasies and by discussing fantasies with him, we are only enabling his compulsions.

NLL's problem is that he has severe OCD. Fantasies are irrelevant. The topic could be about anything. We need to focus on getting his mind off the topic, not keeping his mind on the topic.

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17 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

This is a good time to remind everyone that NLL's problem has NOTHING to do with fantasies and by discussing fantasies with him, we are only enabling his compulsions.

NLL's problem is that he has severe OCD. Fantasies are irrelevant. The topic could be about anything. We need to focus on getting his mind off the topic, not keeping his mind on the topic.

I apologize if what I've said wasn't the right thing to say. I wasn't trying to really focus on the fantasy part but more generally (perhaps I did talk around what I meant... I do that a lot) that this idea of someone having a different view and OCD seeing that as confirmation that what the person is worrying about must be true in some form. I'll leave it at that.

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I want to see it as OCD,I want to see it as ok,but it's not,I am a pervert,been 9n this site so many years but never learn from my mistake,always go to taboo places when feeling ok,should never have entertained such thinggs

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Hi NLL

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder has two components. The obsessive part and the compulsive. To me, you are obsessed by fantasies. These cause you strong negative emotions. You confess to relieve these emotions. The confessions intensify your obsession. In CBT therapy this is called the vicious flower model.

In regard to obsessions cognitive work is needed such as Theory A and Theory B. In this, you are testing whether you are a pervert or not. You look for evidence to confirm or disconfirm this belief.

 In case my Theory A and Theory B related to issues in the external environment. For example whether I should or should not be concerned about dangers of uninvited strangers entering my property.  

In your case it is about your mental life and your fantasies. I think DRS1 is working in this area. I don’t know. But it seems to me that indicating the normalcy of sexual fantasies builds evidence that you are not a pervert.
 

Though I fully agree that normally one should dismiss these thoughts. However in treatment with such things as Theory A and Theory B being used it might be different.

I think we should all push for you to be referred to PST for therapy. We are not therapists but seek to guide you to good therapy.

Edited by Angst
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1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

I apologize if what I've said wasn't the right thing to say. I wasn't trying to really focus on the fantasy part but more generally (perhaps I did talk around what I meant... I do that a lot) that this idea of someone having a different view and OCD seeing that as confirmation that what the person is worrying about must be true in some form. I'll leave it at that.

No, no. My post wasn't directed at any one person. It is hard to not offer reassurance at some level.

"Fantasies are normal" seems harmless but is actually reassurance that NLL has heard scores of times. I've probably said it a few.

We need to focus on the OCD, not what he did.

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57 minutes ago, Nolightleft said:

I want to see it as OCD,I want to see it as ok,but it's not,I am a pervert,been 9n this site so many years but never learn from my mistake,always go to taboo places when feeling ok,should never have entertained such thinggs

You can fix that from here on out. But your problem is OCD because you are fixated on something. You are always thinking about it. That's what OCD is. What you fixate on is irrelevant. 

I used to fixate on brutally harming people and having sex with children. Vile. Brutal. I learned to get past it. You can too.

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1 hour ago, Nolightleft said:

I want to see it as OCD,I want to see it as ok,but it's not,I am a pervert,been 9n this site so many years but never learn from my mistake,always go to taboo places when feeling ok,should never have entertained such thinggs

Think of it this way....a car alarm keeps going off outside your house, no one's broken into it, it's simply a bit faulty & goes off on its own. The same applies to OCD, a false alarm goes off that this or that is dangerous, harmful or in your case NLL it was wrong to entertain certain fantasies. If though, you can do as we've suggested & keep shifting your focus/attention away from the thoughts you stop fuelling the battery/false alarm & you'll see this clearly for what it is - OCD. I've had a bit of a stressful day, so I'm not sure if I've explained that too well, but I hope you get my drift.

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1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

You can fix that from here on out. But your problem is OCD because you are fixated on something. You are always thinking about it. That's what OCD is. What you fixate on is irrelevant. 

I used to fixate on brutally harming people and having sex with children. Vile. Brutal. I learned to get past it. You can too.

When you write  as honestly as that ! Then obviously you have a good understanding of ocd i to used to have the same obsessions but I never cured them they just moved on to different themes so what did you do that  me or nll can’t ?? Please don’t say distract or just forget because ocd is so much stronger than that what was your formula or your blue print ! If you were guilty of a crime or cheating or anything that could cause a problem could you use the same way of thinking to unburden your self ! What is it that we are not getting??

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You don't just forget your obsessions. Distract is such an overused word. Ultimately for me it was about changing the way I thought about the thoughts and drastically changing my behavior. 

Changing my thinking came first and involved several things. I did a fairly deep dive into cognitive distortions and learned how they controlled how I thought. Black and white thinking. All or nothing thinking. In NLL's case, he now sees fantasizing as making him the worst possible human on the planet. It's not true. It's a cognitive distortion, a lens through which he sees things, and it distorts everything he thinks and does. 

Cognitively I also began to see obsessions as just thoughts that don't reflect who I am. They are thrust upon me but I don't have to buy into them.

Cognitively I also became very educated about OCD and how it manifests. I was then able to clearly see what my obsessions and compulsions were.

Behaviorally, I began working on first delaying and reducing compulsions and then eliminating them. Ruminating was by far the most difficult to overcome.

I also, after a while, did ERP, exposing myself to obsessions and practicing not doing compulsions. This ultimately led to me looking at myself in a mirror, repeatedly, and saying out loud, "You are a pedophile". That was my greatest fear.

About distracting. I prefer getting on with your day, something I know you dislike. What I mean by that is learning to not let an obsession stop you in your tracks, but instead leave it floating around in your head while getting on with more important stuff, like reading, TV, having a talk with someone, gardening, going for a walk  working, driving, whatever. It's like saying to OCD, "I know you are there but I'm not going to let you hold me back."

It's really hard at first. It is most difficult to change your thinking and behavior when you have spent years or decades doing it one way. But it can be done. You have to push yourself. You will fall down, but you try again.

One very important lesson: I do not believe recovery is any harder than the day  to day misery of living with OCD.

Edited by PolarBear
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6 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

You don't just forget your obsessions. Distract is such an overused word. Ultimately for me it was about changing the way I thought about the thoughts and drastically changing my behavior. 

Changing my thinking came first and involved several things. I did a fairly deep dive into cognitive distortions and learned how they controlled how I thought. Black and white thinking. All or nothing thinking. In NLL's case, he now sees fantasizing as making him the worst possible human on the planet. It's not true. It's a cognitive distortions, a lens through which you see things, and it distorts everything he thinks and does. 

Cognitively I also began to ser obsessions as just thoughts that don't reflect who I am. They are thrust upon me but I don't have to buy it them.

Cognitively I also became very educated about OCD and how it manifests. I was then able to clearly see what my obsessions and compulsions were.

Behaviorally, I began working on first delaying and reducing compulsions and then eliminating them. Ruminating was by far the most difficult to overcome.

I also, after a while, did ERP, exposing myself to obsessions and practicing not doing compulsions. This Ultimately led to me looking at myself in a mirror, repeatedly, and saying out loud, "You are a pedophile". That was my greatest fear.

About distracting. I prefer getting on with your day, something I know you dislike. What I mean by that is learning to not let an obsession stop you in your tracks, but instead leave it floating around in your head while getting on with more important stuff, like reading, TV, having a talk with someone, gardening, going for a walk  working, driving, whatever. It's like saying to OCD, "I know you are there but I'm not going to hold you back."

It's really hard at first. It is most difficult to change your thinking and behavior when you have spent years or decades doing it one way. But it can be done. You have to push yourself. You will fall down, but you try again.

One very important lesson: I do not believe recovery is any harder than the day  to day misery of living with OCD.

Thanks for your time in replying and I definitely agree nothing can be harder than living with ocd every day ! I do find that interesting about looking in the mirror and saying I am a pedophile because there is something strangely comforting about leaning in to your fears rather than trying to push them away but it only seems to work for so long  For  me ! and as for nll and also me can that Still be achieved when you feel like you have committed an offence?? Ok so fantasies could be up for debate some people agree some don’t but let’s say fantasies were a no no and they were morally frowned upon or he had a full blown affair 10 years ago and only now he had become obsessed about it !! How would he/me  treat that with the same approach! ! Genuinely do find it interesting because I do feel some level of acceptance agreeing with the ocd rather than pushing it away but I think it’s hard to maintain when your sat next to the woman you love feeling like your living a lie !

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54 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

You don't just forget your obsessions. Distract is such an overused word. Ultimately for me it was about changing the way I thought about the thoughts and drastically changing my behavior. 

Changing my thinking came first and involved several things. I did a fairly deep dive into cognitive distortions and learned how they controlled how I thought. Black and white thinking. All or nothing thinking. In NLL's case, he now sees fantasizing as making him the worst possible human on the planet. It's not true. It's a cognitive distortion, a lens through which he sees things, and it distorts everything he thinks and does. 

Cognitively I also began to see obsessions as just thoughts that don't reflect who I am. They are thrust upon me but I don't have to buy into them.

Cognitively I also became very educated about OCD and how it manifests. I was then able to clearly see what my obsessions and compulsions were.

Behaviorally, I began working on first delaying and reducing compulsions and then eliminating them. Ruminating was by far the most difficult to overcome.

I also, after a while, did ERP, exposing myself to obsessions and practicing not doing compulsions. This ultimately led to me looking at myself in a mirror, repeatedly, and saying out loud, "You are a pedophile". That was my greatest fear.

About distracting. I prefer getting on with your day, something I know you dislike. What I mean by that is learning to not let an obsession stop you in your tracks, but instead leave it floating around in your head while getting on with more important stuff, like reading, TV, having a talk with someone, gardening, going for a walk  working, driving, whatever. It's like saying to OCD, "I know you are there but I'm not going to let you hold me back."

It's really hard at first. It is most difficult to change your thinking and behavior when you have spent years or decades doing it one way. But it can be done. You have to push yourself. You will fall down, but you try again.

One very important lesson: I do not believe recovery is any harder than the day  to day misery of living with OCD.

 

:goodpost:

 

Would love to pin this post to a bilboard at the top of the forum and frame it in gold. :)

OCD recovery requires just 2 simple things -

1. change the way you think about the stuff that bothers you

2. change the way you behave in response to the stuff that bothers you.

Which is all that CBT entails. Those 2 steps. :)

 

For CBT to work though there is a 3rd step - a very important one that probably accounts for 90% of the 'CBT doesn't work for me' replies we see.

3. ALLOW yourself to change.

 

@bluegas @Nolightleft  - where you're both struggling is that a person can't begin to apply the 2 steps of CBT until you apply the 3rd and most important step of all. Give yourself permission to change.

The negative self-talk 'I don't deserve...' and the guilty interpretations 'That was unforgiveable...' are another way of saying you're unwilling to let any kind of change happen.

Which keeps you stuck in the OCD thinking loop and struggling to resist doing compulsions.

So I would only add to Polar Bear's post that at some point he made the conscious decision to allow change to happen and stuck to it.

He gave himself permission to change.

You, or anyone else, looking for where to start on the road to recovery - start there.

Only you can give yourself the permission to change. You won't get it by waiting for a partner to forgive you, or by hearing a therapist telling you that it's allowed.

YOU have to decide that you deserve, want and are willing to change.

And when you take that all-important step - that's when the 2 CBT steps of changing your thinking and behaviour can start to work. And you're on the road to recovery.  :)

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I'm wondering if it would be possible to collate some of these amazing posts by snowbear, polar bear, taurean and others and put them in a thread that is pinned to the top of the forums for anyone to read. I feel that so many users are missing out on all of this wisdom unless they happen to read a thread that they are posted in.

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51 minutes ago, Lynz said:

I'm wondering if it would be possible to collate some of these amazing posts by snowbear, polar bear, taurean and others and put them in a thread that is pinned to the top of the forums for anyone to read. I feel that so many users are missing out on all of this wisdom unless they happen to read a thread that they are posted in.

Great idea Lynz, at one time we did have a forum dedicated to helpful posts covering core topics. From memory it was attached to the Technical Forum but I think may have been lost when a few rarely used forums were removed a short while ago. I'll flag this is up with Ashley though in case it can be reinstated or perhaps the posts incorporated into Laura's Online Resources forum.

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2 hours ago, bluegas said:

Thanks for your time in replying and I definitely agree nothing can be harder than living with ocd every day ! I do find that interesting about looking in the mirror and saying I am a pedophile because there is something strangely comforting about leaning in to your fears rather than trying to push them away but it only seems to work for so long  For  me ! and as for nll and also me can that Still be achieved when you feel like you have committed an offence?? Ok so fantasies could be up for debate some people agree some don’t but let’s say fantasies were a no no and they were morally frowned upon or he had a full blown affair 10 years ago and only now he had become obsessed about it !! How would he/me  treat that with the same approach! ! Genuinely do find it interesting because I do feel some level of acceptance agreeing with the ocd rather than pushing it away but I think it’s hard to maintain when your sat next to the woman you love feeling like your living a lie !

I wrote a book about my experience. I won't get into it but I got in trouble with the law. I was even charged. It was that that gave me the impetus to face my fears.

The real turning point came when I forgave myself. I forgave myself for everything. The thoughts, my behavior, distancing myself from loved ones. After that, things got easier. Not easy, but easier.

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11 hours ago, Lynz said:

I'm wondering if it would be possible to collate some of these amazing posts by snowbear, polar bear, taurean and others and put them in a thread that is pinned to the top of the forums for anyone to read. I feel that so many users are missing out on all of this wisdom unless they happen to read a thread that they are posted in

This is a great idea. I often take a screen shot of posts I find particularly useful, but they don't always fit on one screen, and can therefore get very muddled!😂

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11 hours ago, Lynz said:

I'm wondering if it would be possible to collate some of these amazing posts by snowbear, polar bear, taurean and others and put them in a thread that is pinned to the top of the forums for anyone to read. I feel that so many users are missing out on all of this wisdom unless they happen to read a thread that they are posted in.

 

11 hours ago, snowbear said:

Would love to pin this post to a bilboard at the top of the forum and frame it in gold. :)

 

10 hours ago, Hal said:

Great idea Lynz, at one time we did have a forum dedicated to helpful posts covering core topics. From memory it was attached to the Technical Forum but I think may have been lost when a few rarely used forums were removed a short while ago. I'll flag this is up with Ashley though in case it can be reinstated or perhaps the posts incorporated into Laura's Online Resources forum.

I would have strong reservations about the idea of pinning posts like these to the top of the forums.

Lynz mentions 3 specific people above.  They all have very good writing skills and appear knowledgable about the subject.

There are many more people on these forums who have good knowledge and understanding of OCD and wider mental health issues but do not have the skills or abiliity to write long and eloquent posts.

To single out 3 people from a large number of people who experience OCD is in danger of setting up a hierarchical system in the forums.  I would prefer to see a level playing field where everyone has a chance to speak and not feel they cant take part because they cannot express themselves as well as ''the experienced people''.

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40 minutes ago, northpaul said:

and appear knowledgable about the subject.

They don't 'appear' to be knowledgeable...they are, Paul. But leaving that aside, we did have as I said another forum where replies and guidance were posted from many members of the community. One that stands out was by Scott around Sex & OCD which we regularly referred to & needed to be found quickly rather than trawling through other posts as Lynz has mentioned, or having to use the search option. It really is as simple as that. I don't quite see why doing that to help the whole community would make people feel their own views were less valued, surely they don't have to be mutually exclusive. 

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I only mentioned those 3 as they post a lot of useful posts. I said "and others" in my post to encompass anyone else. My point was any useful post by any member of the forum could be used in a pinned thread, and I wasn't saying only those 3 could have pinned posts.

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12 hours ago, PolarBear said:

I wrote a book about my experience. I won't get into it but I got in trouble with the law. I was even charged. It was that that gave me the impetus to face my fears.

The real turning point came when I forgave myself. I forgave myself for everything. The thoughts, my behavior, distancing myself from loved ones. After that, things got easier. Not easy, but easier.

What’s the book called can I ask ?

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