Racism again

[Cora]

I read another post on the forum about racism and I had to ask this question. 

What can I do if my thoughts feel like and show themselves as real beliefs? Because this is how my racist thoughts work for me. They come in as real beliefs, not intrusive thoughts.

If they weren't, would I feel grossed out by seeing a Black person in a TV show and turning the TV off just because of that? If they weren't, would I behave differently and be less respectful towards people from minority groups? If they weren't, would I agree with the vile, horrible thoughts about Black people and even purposely look for reasons why my thoughts are ture?

I don't know what to do because this feels like racism and not OCD. Do I get help for racism? If I need to, how do I access it? 

If anyone reads this and believes that my problem is racism, please, please tell me. 

[malina]

Racism is a form of prejudice, not a mental illness. There is no help for racism, there is no therapy, it's not a health problem. It's just a set of opinions that people have, which can be changed.

If you believe that you're a racist, my question would be why you're like that? What do you have against people of different racial groups? I think a racist would have some prejudiced beliefs about certain racial groups, they would think less of them for a particular reason. So I guess you'd have to identify the reason that you dislike people of different racial groups and try to change your thinking, to be more accepting and to see them as equal to yourself.

[Cora]

 

4 minutes ago, malina said:

What do you have against people of different racial groups?

 

5 minutes ago, malina said:

So I guess you'd have to identify the reason that you dislike people of different racial groups and try to change your thinking, to be more accepting and to see them as equal to yourself.

I don't have an answer for these two questions. I was fine until a year ago when overnight I developed certain feelings and thoughts about/against people from different racial groups. And since then my behaviour towards them has become worse and worse, even though that was never my intention. 

[malina]

Just now, Cora said:

I don't have an answer for these two questions. I was fine until a year ago when overnight I developed certain feelings and thoughts about/against people from different racial groups. And since then my behaviour towards them has become worse and worse, even though that was never my intention. 

Racism isn't just a set of thoughts and feelings, it's a prejudice, a set of opions, a world view. Nobody just wakes up hating an entire group of people for no reason. You're saying that you developed an entirely new view of people and started hating a particular racial group overnight, so what do you have against them?

[PolarBear]

Cora, this is you trying an end runaround to get reassurance. Right back with your whole behaviors.

[Cora]

8 minutes ago, malina said:

You're saying that you developed an entirely new view of people and started hating a particular racial group overnight, so what do you have against them?

Maybe. It started with a thought about a comparison between a person and an animal. I agreed with that thought. It wasn't intrusive, it felt like a core belief. And then it developed into worse and worse. Couldn't explain why but I just had feelings of hatred and discomfort around people. 

I don't have anything against anyone. But when I do interact with people of different racial groups, I feel like I'm being disrespectful towards them. For example, I randomly get annoyed at work if a non White person asks me for help. And the other day, I had a horrible thought about a person, agreed with it and then just stared at that person. 

It's (not so) little things like these. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Cora

[malina]

3 minutes ago, Cora said:

Maybe. It started with a thought about a comparison between a person and an animal. I agreed with that thought. It wasn't intrusive, it felt like a core belief. And then it developed into worse and worse. Couldn't explain why but I just had feelings of hatred and discomfort around people. 

I don't have anything against anyone. But when I do interact with people of different racial groups, I feel like I'm being disrespectful towards them. For example, I randomly get annoyed at work if a non White person asks me for help. And the other day, I had a horrible thought about a person, agreed with it and then just stared at that person. 

It's (not so) little things like these. 

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I feel like you're here hoping that someone is going to run in and say no you're not racist, this is all just OCD. But since people have done that hundreds of times now, it clearly doesn't mean anything because you're back for the hundreth time arguing about how you are indeed a racist. So, if that is what you believe, then I don't really know how to help with that problem. I have people in my life who I really care about who have opinions and prejudices that I strongly disagree with, but as much as I try to argue with them and show them their opinions are wrong, they don't listen to me!

[Cora]

17 minutes ago, malina said:

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I feel like you're here hoping that someone is going to run in and say no you're not racist, this is all just OCD. But since people have done that hundreds of times now, it clearly doesn't mean anything because you're back for the hundreth time arguing about how you are indeed a racist. So, if that is what you believe, then I don't really know how to help with that problem. I have people in my life who I really care about who have opinions and prejudices that I strongly disagree with, but as much as I try to argue with them and show them their opinions are wrong, they don't listen to me!

I don't know what to say either. I really don't. 

It was never my intention to be like this and I'm trying to work on whatever this is but I keep repeating the same behaviour. Even though I disagree with any form of prejudice and discrimination, these feelings feel so embedded that I don't know what to believe. I don't know where it's coming from. 

I probably should have not made this thread. I made myself feel so much worse and question if I'm worth anything. 

[felix4]

On a couple of occasions I have had people having a right go at me on social media accusing me of being racist. I really am not, & I don't like seeing people being racist. However, the way I see it, accusing non racists of being racist is on a par, & in some ways perhaps worse than being racist. 

I fired back & said this to them, & said that YOU are the problem too, which seemed to shut them up.

Honestly, I can in a way see how this could turn people racist.

Right, not sure why I have post this, & I don't really have much to say other than hi Malina & Cora, & Cora, stop the reassurance seeking!

Take care both! 

 

 

 

[Cora]

7 hours ago, malina said:

I have people in my life who I really care about who have opinions and prejudices that I strongly disagree with, but as much as I try to argue with them and show them their opinions are wrong, they don't listen to me!

 @malina, I'm sorry but I'm confused by this part of your reply. Are you saying that I am a racist and don't want to listen to what's right? 

[Cora]

6 hours ago, felix4 said:

On a couple of occasions I have had people having a right go at me on social media accusing me of being racist. I really am not, & I don't like seeing people being racist. However, the way I see it, accusing non racists of being racist is on a par, & in some ways perhaps worse than being racist. 

I fired back & said this to them, & said that YOU are the problem too, which seemed to shut them up.

Honestly, I can in a way see how this could turn people racist.

Right, not sure why I have post this, & I don't really have much to say other than hi Malina & Cora, & Cora, stop the reassurance seeking!

Take care both! 

 

 

 

Hi @felix4, 

I'm sorry that happened to you. 

I hope you are okay and take care as well. 

[malina]

1 hour ago, Cora said:

 @malina, I'm sorry but I'm confused by this part of your reply. Are you saying that I am a racist and don't want to listen to what's right? 

I'm not saying anything, you are the one who is arguing that you're a racist, not me. You have already read my replies to your post enough times to know that I don't think that. But, since you are here claiming that these thoughts aren't intrusive and that they reflect your core beliefs, I accept that. I'm not staying on this reassurance wheel with you anymore. You are here laying out your arguments about why you're a racist and then internally begging someone to come and tell you that you're wrong. You're satisfied with that for a day or two and then you just come back and argue how it's not OCD, again, for years and years.

So if you're back here, for the hundreth time, arguing that these are your core beliefs, that this is why you are...then okay, so be it. But I don't understand what you're trying to get out of it, if you're really looking for advice on how to be less racist (as you claim to be doing), I'm not sure this is the place to be looking for it.

[Cora]

26 minutes ago, malina said:

But I don't understand what you're trying to get out of it, if you're really looking for advice on how to be less racist (as you claim to be doing), I'm not sure this is the place to be looking for it.

Okay, I understand. 

[Cora]

37 minutes ago, malina said:

But, since you are here claiming that these thoughts aren't intrusive and that they reflect your core beliefs, I accept that

(You don't have to reply to this, malina.)

Well, if I said they aren't intrusive, I would be lying. But then that could be applied to all my other thoughts and themes. All of them feel natural which means I'm a racist, paedophile, sadist, creep and generally a monster.

I just dug myself a deeper hole...

Edited May 9, 2023 by Cora

[DRS1]

1 minute ago, Cora said:

You don't have to reply to this, malina.

Well, if I said they aren't intrusive, I would be lying. But then that could be applied to all my other thoughts and themes. All of them feel natural which means I'm a racist, paedophile, sadist, creep and generally a monster. I just dug myself a deeper hole...

A bit of theory A vs theory B goes a long way here. Theory A is you are all the things you just said or Theory B is actually you are so worked up about not being those things and thus why it terrifies you. Not that I think this will remotely stop you reassurance seeking but you need to start using tools like Theory A vs Theory B as it does start to help in the process of getting better (and this should apply to any other advice given to you on the forum as well as what your therapist and you had discussed)

[malina]

2 minutes ago, Cora said:

(You don't have to reply to this, malina.)

Well, if I said they aren't intrusive, I would be lying. But then that could be applied to all my other thoughts and themes. All of them feel natural which means I'm a racist, paedophile, sadist, creep and generally a monster.

I just dug myself a deeper hole...

So how are you going to dig yourself out of this hole?

[Cora]

6 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

A bit of theory A vs theory B goes a long way here. Theory A is you are all the things you just said or Theory B is actually you are so worked up about not being those things and thus why it terrifies you. Not that I think this will remotely stop you reassurance seeking but you need to start using tools like Theory A vs Theory B as it does start to help in the process of getting better (and this should apply to any other advice given to you on the forum as well as what your therapist and you had discussed)

Thank you, @DRS1. 

6 minutes ago, malina said:

So how are you going to dig yourself out of this hole?

I probably should follow the advice that @DRS1 just gave me. Just for the sake of it accept that it's OCD even if it doesn't feel like it is, otherwise I'm going down the wrong path. I'm either all of those things I mentioned above or it's my mind making me think I am those things, and I will go with the second option. I still don't believe it but I have to fake it until I make it. 

[malina]

5 minutes ago, Cora said:

I will go with the second option. I still don't believe it but I have to fake it until I make it. 

Good, but then really do that. Your whole issue here is: it feels real, therefore it must be real. Then you come and tell people why it's real and hope they will argue against it and tell you how it's not real. There are a lot of people who are willing to help you, but not like this. You can't expect people to regularly try to convince you that you have OCD, ignore their advice, and come back asking for more convincing and saying you don't know what to do. Sorry to be so harsh, but this has been going on for way too long and you have to participate in your own recovery, nobody can fight this battle for you.

[Cora]

51 minutes ago, malina said:

Good, but then really do that. Your whole issue here is: it feels real, therefore it must be real. Then you come and tell people why it's real and hope they will argue against it and tell you how it's not real. There are a lot of people who are willing to help you, but not like this. You can't expect people to regularly try to convince you that you have OCD, ignore their advice, and come back asking for more convincing and saying you don't know what to do. Sorry to be so harsh, but this has been going on for way too long and you have to participate in your own recovery, nobody can fight this battle for you.

I will try but I'm scared of failing and repeating the same pattern. 

[Caramoole]

7 hours ago, malina said:

you have to participate in your own recovery, nobody can fight this battle for you.

This question has been raised in many ways.....it's also been answered and advice given many times.  We can't just keep going over that to reassure you, which us what you're really hoping for.

[Angst]

12 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you, @DRS1. 

I probably should follow the advice that @DRS1 just gave me. Just for the sake of it accept that it's OCD even if it doesn't feel like it is, otherwise I'm going down the wrong path. I'm either all of those things I mentioned above or it's my mind making me think I am those things, and I will go with the second option. I still don't believe it but I have to fake it until I make it. 

Cora

Do you understand Theory A and Theory B? What has ‘faking it’ to do with an examination of your thoughts?

[snowbear]

15 hours ago, Cora said:

  I'm sorry but I'm confused by this part of your reply. Are you saying that I am a racist and don't want to listen to what's right? 

I don't think you're the least bit confused, Cora. I think you've read Malina's reply and become anxious about it because it wasn't the direct reassurance answer you were after.

If you started this thread as a fact finding mission then you'd be able to hear both views (you are a racist and you aren't a racist) without anxiety.

But you just wanted the reassuring 'you aren't'  replies.

Every time, and on every thread you ever write, you react to anything other than the ressurance you were seeking with 'confusion' or anxiety and panic.

You can fool yourself as long as you like, but you aren't fooling anybody else.

This thread is an OCD- driven reassurance seeking compulsion and that has to stop.

[malina]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

I don't think you're the least bit confused, Cora. I think you've read Malina's reply and become anxious about it because it wasn't the direct reassurance answer you were after.

If you started this thread as a fact finding mission then you'd be able to hear both views (you are a racist and you aren't a racist) without anxiety.

But you just wanted the reassuring 'you aren't'  replies.

Every time, and on every thread you ever write, you react to anything other than the ressurance you were seeking with 'confusion' or anxiety and panic.

You can fool yourself as long as you like, but you aren't fooling anybody else.

This thread is an OCD- driven reassurance seeking compulsion and that has to stop.

Yes, this is exactly it! The way these threads usually go is that you come saying how you did something, you are sure it's not OCD, you make this argument and explain why. What you crave is for people to then come and try to argue against what you said, to tell you how you're not bad, that it's just OCD. Even the usual "stop it Cora and move on" responses are reassuring because they confirm that people think it's OCD. But when someone responds with anything les than reassurance, you completely panic, ask for clarification and hope they will say that it was all a misunderstanding.

This kind of pattern stops you from dealing with your anxiety in a more constructive way. Because you get responses within minutes of posting, you get that instant reassurance that you need and you don't face your anxiety. If you keep doing this, you're just going to stay stuck.

[Cora]

I didn't mean to upset or make you angry with me. 

I recognise that I do have a big, big problem. Even my boyfriend told me that I'm in a harmful cycle where I deny and ignore any advice given and days later come back for more "advice" (which is really just reassurance seeking) just to ignore it again. 

I know what I have to do but something is missing and I don't get it. I have everything I need to get better but I'm not doing it. 

Good news is that I have an appointment with CADAT for an initial assessment. 

[malina]

1 hour ago, Cora said:

I didn't mean to upset or make you angry with me. 

I recognise that I do have a big, big problem. Even my boyfriend told me that I'm in a harmful cycle where I deny and ignore any advice given and days later come back for more "advice" (which is really just reassurance seeking) just to ignore it again. 

I know what I have to do but something is missing and I don't get it. I have everything I need to get better but I'm not doing it. 

Good news is that I have an appointment with CADAT for an initial assessment. 

I think you have two big problems. I think you're waiting for things to make sense and to feel right before starting to treat it as OCD. This won't happen, it's through treating it as OCD that it becomes to feel right. Your starting point is actually the intended outcome.

I think your other problem is your self esteem. I really think it's interfering with your ability to work on these problems because your natural reaction is to treat yourself with contempt. I think that people who approach this with positivity and a fighting spirit are much more likely to see improvements. You treat yourself so negatively.

It's great that you have an appointment with CADAT! I think my therapist used to work there before starting a private practice and he's really good.

Edited May 10, 2023 by malina