1Littlefoot

that sounds helpful - thankyou I'll show him .... see how he responds - now you've described this process I recognise bits from what he has told me ...... by knowing this in full it will help when he finds it just too challenging .... you don't seem to set time limits on allowing ruminating ... is more black and white ... perhaps easier to work with uncertainty is rife with OCD. Will let you know .... xing fingers! Litllefooot

From a mum of a 21old young son OCD sufferer - how does an OCD sufferer ' recognise ' / 'catch themselves ' ruminating and so try to stop doing it the many ways suggested? When he's in a whirl of anxiety nothing seems to get through. Looking for tips here from fellow sufferers who know what son is going through. If I am around I can help him to see the situation (very challenging for us both - and not the best way forward as I know I musn't become part of the whole process - not good - reassurance etc!). I have looked at loads of ideas and suggested them but he finds it so hard to apply them as he just doesn't see he's ruminating. He's had several rounds of proper OCD CBT and ERP treatment at national level / is on the cocktail of meds etc ... so not new to this. There has been great progress but he's flatlined at moment and getting frustrated and down that he's not progressing. . The ruminations are on almost insolvable problems e.g. - what is truth / what do I know / how can I be strong partly as the OCD has made him not trust his own thoughts at times (all past ruminations he had got better at tackling at least in so far as physical ruminations - he used to write endlessly - now he thinks endlessly in his head and I 'm the only one at home ... and I think sometimes better than the therapist ..... that understands what's going on) ; how can I fix my back' ( he has a damaged vertebrae and won't use traditional techniques to help relieve the pain - which adds to his anxiety and depressed mood as it's stopped all his favourite sport and so curtailed exercise - not surprised he's down in the dumps!). he is often going to to bed in his clothes in despair plus ruminating or gets stuck in his room distracting himself on the PC - unless I coach him out of bed /room and back to doing ordinary in the moment things. So that's something practical I can suggest to him. Is there anything else I can suggest please that I can pass on to him? He's in limbo at the moment and getting really down - so OCD getting worse - CBT clinical psychologist on long term leave for a few more weeks and psychiatrist now only doing NHS work now not private so we've lost that extra help - NHS support is like buses - never there when needed! So I'm having to help him and running out of ideas. I've tried to get him on these forums - but I think it just scares him more! Any really practical tips from those that know how hard it is to recognise the rumination for what it is and so apply all the techniques therapy teaches .... which help him if he can start them off in the first place! It's that recognition and the first step......I'm the prompt for the first step - and I just can't be there all the time to do ..... and anyway he has to find his own way. So pl any tips - ideas of what you do? I can pass on .... maybe something will help ..... Maybe any apps? Seen one specially for OCD self treatment - think is Canadian ... ( not s'posed to say which on here ?) . Thanks

Son is 21 - is having another round of CBT therapy ( but is on hold at moment - therapist on extended leave for some reason) - has had ERP etc etc ... .is on meds - 200mg sertraline/ risperidone / clonazepam . But having decided to take a year out from unie to get on top of his illness he's not really improving - being at home he's slipping down into more mental ruminations - without me around to spot what's going on and help him think of a way out he's stuck and getting more and more depressed - OCD is taking a hold again having been able to move on with life. I am on this bit of the forums as I am seeking practical ideas from sufferers ( and anyone else whos reading) I can take to him - he won't come on the forums - what he sees - people worse than him - scares him. So while he has no therapist and even then its not frequent enough - am trying to galvanise resources for him to help. Seen an OCD APP - don't think I'm allowed to say here what it's called - but seems to have clinical ethicacy - and has been designed by OCD suffferers and Clinicians - claims: 1) Self-Assess - Understand your OCD’s severity level by taking the YBOCS Test 2) Customize- Customize your plan by filling out your Hierarchies. 3) Exercise- Do mental exercises following ERP prompts and tools in the Plan. 4) Get in-episode guidance:- When OCD strikes inconveniently, turn to the app for clinically effective guidance. It will first walk you through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and then help you resist your compulsion using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. 5) Join support groups- Join in-app support groups and connect with others battling the exact same types of OCD as you! 6) View your data - Analyze real-time treatment data, and objectively understand your progress.6) I'm not suggesting he should use this app in full - am hoping it has prompts to remind him what to do when in very anxious state with ruminations - he uses his phone a lot so seems a tool he might be able to use. He's been told about other apps by NHS - but has never used - but they were general mental health ones not OCD .This is first one I've seen that is tailor made for OCD. Any thoughts/ experience of this or any others? Indeed any other ideas what he can do to help himself ! Many thanks everyone.

From a mum of a 21old young son OCD sufferer - how does an OCD sufferer ' recognise ' / 'catch themselves ' ruminating and so try to stop doing it by the ways suggested? When he's in a whirl of anxiety nothing seems to get through. If I am around I can help him to see the situation ( very challenging for us both - and not the best way forward as I know I musn't become part of the whole process - not good - reassurance etc!). I have looked at the video - think I picked up the idea of if you are thinking of solving an insolvable problem e.g. - what is truth / what do I know / how can I be strong (all past ruminations he had got better at tackling at least in so far as physical ruminations - he used to write endlessly - now he thinks endlessly in his head and I 'm the only one at home that understands what's going on) - how can I fix my back' ( he has a damaged vertebrae and won't use traditional techniques to help relieve the pain - which adds to his anxiety and depressed mood as it's stopped all his favourite sport and so curtailed exercise) - ....... say for more than 10 mins ( he goes to bed in his clothes and does this for hours - unless I coach him out of bed and back to doing ordinary in the moment things ). So that's something practical I can suggest to him. Is there anything else I can suggest please that I can pass on to him? He's in limbo at the moment and getting really down - so OCD getting worse - CBT clinical psychologist on long term leave for a few more weeks and psychiatrist now only doing NHS work now not private so we've lost that extra help - NHs support is like buses - never there when needed! So I'm having to help him and running out of ideas. I've tried to get him on these forums - but I think it just scares him more! Thanks

Thanks raffles and Stepforward. the evidence based approach is a good point . And my worry and reason for asking was triggered by the negatives I had seen and the concern it would put him back - even at risk. As it happens he hasn't proceeded- no idea why. Plus now the psychologist is on extended leave for goodness knows what reason ..... as has been his psychiatrist - so he's in limbo again at home and slipping backwards - getting fed up , bored, depressed and loosing faith in himself - of course OCD being a huge contributor - as always - I hate this darned illness!! So for now back to drawing board galvanising resources ( our own) to keep him form slipping further and keeping hope!! Damned if IOCD wins!!! Not on my watch! But sadly is not down to me in the end. Thanks all.

Thank you Headwreck ...... hopefully making progress one day at a time!

I suspect that might be how the therapist is going to use it (or maybe that's me with wishful thinking) ..... so thanks - that puts things into perspective alongside the Exposure therapy for OCD and the normal CBT for OCD - both of which he has done - and continues to try do on a daily basis with greater or lesser effect - depending on how anxious he is. It really is very exhausting for him . Your comments really helpful. Many thanks all.

Thanks legalseagull. Guess will have to see .. CBT alone hasn't worked enough so anything else that might help seems worth a try - son seems positive about it .... so must be worth a try.

Good point! Keep forgetting he's still so young ! 21 these days is not quite what it was when I was 21 . haha

Thanks BelAnna and DRFCno1 We tried getting him into David's unit but after him being assessed it was deemed not appropriate by the doctors.Still don't get why. I'll keep trying to get him to look at the forums - and get him along to other events where others are . trouble is he feels that on both of these he'll see/hear form the suffers - don't get to spk to those that have moved on and overcome tor at least are managing the illness well as they just get on with their lives! He feels mixing with others who suffer will just make him feel worse - and add to him feeling there's no end. I took him and his Dad and his twin brother to an OCD group - dad ended in tears in public .... although think all three benefited in the end if only to give added impeteus to son to get better and the rest of us to help! ! A few things coming up I can involve him in .... with OCD UK and others one at Kings -- just hoping some where along the line something will just unlock his thinking enough to help him find his own way to being happier with life and not so tortured. He's such a happy chappy when feeling good! So I'll keep coming on the forums until he does and see what I can find out and tell him .... !! Happy days!!! .

TThanks BelAnna. knowing info like that is helpful ... gives us the questions to ask the medics - rather than just take their word for it willy nilly. On the CBT side- yes he's had several 'courses' all from highly qualified OCD specialist clinical psychologists s - linked with Kings /Maudsley. He has seen Dr David Veale who also recognises that our son is resistant to the talking therapies as part of his OCD - the OCD makes him question everything - he wants to work it out for himself / won't accept accepted best practise expertise cart blanch - which is sort of right as treatment needs tailoring for the individual and the solution in the end is within himself - but he takes it too far as to make the help he's getting less useful - so he shoots himself in the foot . It's OCD talking - not his real rational self. Added to this he says the therapy hasn't 'cured him ' so therefore he has no evidence that the therapy works .... it makes using rational thought very hard to get through to him!! I end up going around ina whirl trying to make him see rational sense. So far the Michael Rutter clinic were the most successful - using ERP and CBT but it removed circa 70% of the external behaviours of OCD that were harmful - enough to get him functioning to do A levels/go to unie ( for a year) ..... but as he said himself ... he went along with it ... it didn't get rid of OCD ..OCD sort of went underground ...... ie is now ' mental rituals etc' only ... is why I use the term 'Pure O' as a convenient label .. as there are no visible physical OCD signs now - other then retreating to his bed with OCD exhaustion - he'd spend all day in bed pretty much is left alone to do so. He is giving up a bit and that worries me ... as be becomes at risk when he gets so low. So I find myself exploring new ideas ... as he's tried so many already over the last 5 yrs .... from the UK's top experts..........where do you go for help after that ? !

Thanks Snowbear - that helps ... he has had CBT, ERP etc .... as per the correct OCD protocols but he does have the other illnesses - depression,- he has baffled the medics - Dr David Veale has seen him and hasn't been able to make much progress. He won't read much - what he does is what I've trawled from the ODD books/the forums /conferences / world experts ... and all the other 'anxiety' based stuff .... things that anyone can benefit from even if well - analogies to physical physio therapy ... all sorts ... and clipped them into bite sized chunks hoping something might ' click ' with him. Some he has used ... it has helped ....it's keeping him at it ... effort in - results out! Oh well .... onwards step by step. Will get him to speak ot this doc on Pregabalin ... even without the meds he might get him to click on something ... so a few more steps forward. x fingers ...

I agree .... tell my son that all the time!! Understand re meds comment .... just wanted to know if anyone knows anything at all re Pregabalin. any info welcome . Had a decent psychiatrist recommend it. Thanks

many thanks for this feedback ..... the therapist I think is looking to use EMDR as you both say - to bring down the anxiety so my son can access CBT /and any other combined talking therapy approaches - the clinical pschologist is trained in many . My son has done ERP in the past - that worked - he did it at Michael Rutter ( he was really suffering terribly then) - about 70% but the last 30% OCD has gone underground to 'Pure O' .. where now he mistrusts his own thinking - my son's not sure what is OCD and what is 'Him' .Not least as he feels so ughh he's fed up so depressed .... and gets more anxious ... and around he goes again ..locked .... any rational conversation is tricky - makes therapy hard. He's not started EMDR yet ..... suspect the therapist doesn't think he's ready for it. Think I'll make sure son sees it as another tool - and to keep an open mind to it. he was keen to try it ... a rare reaction to his therapy .. so I don't want to discourage him ... I do want to make sure he stays safe and no harm is done - hence asking the forum. Many thanks

Hi, My son has suffered with OCD now for 5+yrs -he’s now 21 and along with it depression. His OCD is now pretty much ‘pure O’ where he basically stops getting on with his life – including getting up in the morning for fear of not doing things / living well enough – so he doesn’t do it ( by the way when he does do things he does them well – he’s academically very smart/ athletic i/loving and caring of humanity – others are envious of his capability – but in his book he’s still not smart enough. I have lost count of the nos of therapists / psychiatrists that have told him to ‘ feel the fear and do it anyway!’ If only it were so simple. Although his condition has improved massively - he’s managed to get to unie – but is now taking a year out (hopefully only that) to get his head sorted out as he puts it – except he’s not really – locked in his OCD as above. It's recognised he has treatment resistance. At his worse he's had ERP therapy at Michael Rutter; CBT: and various other 'talking therapy; medication daily is now 200mg sertraline, 2 x 0.5mg Risperidone and when anxiety is really high or daily to sleep now 0.25mg clonazepam – which he’d rather not take as he knows this is addictive. It’s been suggested that he stops Clonazepam and tries augmenting with Pregabalin to bring down the anxiety – thus making him more able to handle talking therapy and practise what he’s been taught and use his great rational brain and emotional courage (when he’s not strangled by anxiety) to beta up OCD and get on with his life. Pregabalin seems to be a medicine that is little used in the UK – it is approved by NICE and is seen as a second line treatment for GAD – there’s very little work on its use for OCD – although what there is seems to show its use is helpful with low side effects. Has anyone got any knowledge/ experience of it please? Or indeed ano ideas re medication – to get him off clonazepam ; to get anxiety down so he can access talking therapy and his own capability more to get on with his life. And hopefully one day not to have to use medication at all to ensure he stays safe . Any insight at all very welcome. Many thanks