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snowbear

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Everything posted by snowbear

  1. Yes, I agree - it's a self-protective thinking compulsion. I used to tell myself that if I was contaminated by human touch ever again that I would (have to) kill myself. I think deep down I always knew that was just me expressing how VERY VERY VERY distressing the idea of being touched by another human was. I think deep down I always knew that I'd find a way to 'get clean', to survive, to work around it. I think your 'non-existence' is the same sort of self-expression. A way of voicing (even if only to yourself) how totally abhorent and awful the dementia outcome feels to you, how much it terrifies you even to think it could happen, let alone how you'd deal with the reality. But when you label 'going into non-existence' as just a thought, not an actual destiny you would be compelled to inflict on yourself, then dealing with reality becomes a lot simpler and a lot less scary. So you get around it by accepting that totally terrifying as the thought might be, it is just a thought, a feeling, a fear - not an inevitability. Then you try to get some proportion back on your excessively strong emotional over-reaction. My over-reaction was anger and self-destruction, yours seems to be despair and giving up. Same difference, it's an emotional over-reaction way out of proportion to what reality requires. It's very hard having to admit to yourself that you've gone a bit overboard in your thinking and that what you genuinely feel is an over reaction. This is where we put our Big Girl Pants on, swallow our pride, and start trying to look at the unknown future in a calmer, less emotionally-driven way. Talking it through with your therapist should help. However excessive, off-the-scale and unnecessary your reaction has been, you need someone to validate the feelings you have experienced. Sometimes just getting a (metaphorical) hug of empathy and an 'OMG, that's so awful' validation is enough to help you regain perspective. You can of course be the one to give yourself that hug and verbal validation! Though it is nice to get it from another person. But once they've expressed empathy, and agreed with you that you've been put through hell and any sane person would naturally (over-)react as you did, then it's Big Girl Pants time again - working through those extreme feelings until you are more in control, thinking more rationally, and have regained perspective. Working through your feelings can again be as simple as talking about them, opening up. I mean really opening up - laying your feelings bare for the therapist to see, admitting to the therapist that yes, ok maybe you have been just a wee bit overly dramatic in your thinking etc Talking openly, and completely honestly, like this helps you to come to terms with the trauma you've endured and the emotions you've experienced. Recognising /admitting/ accepting that your thinking around this has been out of touch with reality helps to get your thinking back on track. At first you'll probably have to 'fake it til you make it' and keep telling yourself you'll be fine even though you sort of still believe it would be the disaster you have been imagining. But over time the more rational, more normal way of thinking about it sort of sinks in, becomes what you genuinely think and things get back into perspective. I think you've had a major breakthrough today in realising your 'non-existance' idea is a sort of compulsion. Good for you.
  2. I'm with you on that, Bluegas. But you don't talk about it in a way that suggests you're simply taking back control. You talk about it in a very OCD-tinted way, Howard. The way you word it on the forum sometimes comes across as saying, 'The risk is real, therefore you're compulsive behaviours are justified and not in the least unwarranted or abnormal behaviour.' But telling someone whose behaviour and thinking IS way off track that there compulsions are indeed necessary is unhelpful to say the least. Worse still, it comes across that you too therefore perform a lot of compulsive behaviours, labelling them in your own head as 'justified and necessary precautions.' We'd be doing you a disservice if we didn't point out that your own thinking is somewhat distorted by your OCD.
  3. I think we're getting too focused on the asbestos/ lead angle here instead of the faulty thinking around risk, avoidance and prevention. Talking about the chemicals and 'real' risk isn't going to help her get her thinking straight again. This isn't about risk, real or otherwise. It's about faulty thinking creating unnecessary and paralysing fear. We need to be talking about how to get past that fear and get on with life anyway, because that's what life is about. Avoidance isn't living. Let's try to stay on track and help OCD slave with her OCD folks, not get sidetracked by discussions on chemicals.
  4. I think it might be pertinent to point out that Howard seems to be suffering from similar OCD fears to yourself, OCD Slave. Therefore you should take his advice with caution - same as someone with handwashing OCD should be cautious of taking advice from another handwasher who tells them that 'washing 50 times with lots of soap' is ok! I don't think many (any?) builders would wear gloves to do a bit of lead roofing replacement. The risk to ordinary minds is just too low to bother with unnecessary precautions. Actually, no. Your OCD rules aren't protecting you, they just help you to feel like you're protecting yourself. Seems is the operative word. Of course it seems justified when your thinking is warped in such a way that you spend 24/7 convincing yourself it's justified. Wouldn't/ doesn't seem justified to someone who isn't looking at it through your OCD lens. When trying to separate what's OCD from genuine / necessary concern, it's helpful to remember that much of what seems like genuine risk/ justified behaviour is actually OCD thinking and CD behaviour. When you get your thinking straight again, you too will see the 'risk' differently. Working on what issue exactly? That you care more for your family's wellbeing than your own? I'm not sure that's an 'issue'. Most parents probably care more about their children than themselves, that's normal. The issue you perhaps need to address is the line of thought 'impossibly dangerous'. That's catastrophic thinking, which is not normal. Forgive me, I can't remember - are you getting CBT at the moment?
  5. I second that 100%. During a therapy session your therapist should be giving you their undivided attention. Answering messages on their phone is unprofessional and plain bad manners. Good advice from lookingforpeace on raising the issue at your next session. Definitely not too much to ask or expect!
  6. How about not doing it? When the other residents aren't bothered it shows it is an OCD thing affecting you alone, rather than the slab needing to be replaced. So, you made it worse by trying to fix it. Not the first time somebody's done that in life and won't be the last! Trick is to stop trying to fix it, just leave it as is. Maybe every time you walk past it you could think, 'Remember this as a lesson in not trying to fix what doesn't really need fixing' rather than what you probably think when walking past it now (that's scratched, disaster! oh no, needs fixed, can't live with it...blah blah blah... ) Thinking those things is what keeps the feeling that somethings not right alive and kicking. Change the way you talk to yourself about it and the unease you feel will fade.
  7. Hmm, thing is you're thinking of contaminants and hazards as tigers when those things are just shadows in the grass. The real tigers are your thoughts about the contaminants/ hazards - those are the things with big scary teeth that bite. Happily tigers are like ghosts. When you say ,' I don't believe in ghosts (tigers) they vanish! It's your belief that your worries are valid which keeps the tigers nipping at your ankles. Tell them you're not playing any more and they'll leave you alone.
  8. Setting aside time to indulge compulsions is something suggested by a number of therapists, and it can help a beginner who really can't get their head around the idea of just not engaging with the thoughts at all, but it's not a 'recognised technique' in that it's not proven to help. Yup. That's the best thing to do because that's exactly what people without OCD do. I don't think by 'managing the thoughts' she means engage with them. Perhaps she's referring to how we can assess our thinking patterns, watch out for habitual thinking and default thinking, and then intervene to change those patterns to more healthy responses. 'Managing your mind' might mean something like mindfulness, or distraction, or changing your internal dialogue so that you don't engage with the thoughts. I wouldn't give up on her just yet. Next meeting you can say you've moved beyiond the beginner stage of using 'worry time' and want to get more help with non-engagement. Take it from there.
  9. Hi Just_J, Sounds fairly normal to me. What made you wonder if it was OCD? Do you feel compelled to switch hobbies every so often?
  10. You're messing about with medication Orange Juice, and that's a no-no. One minute you're trying to stop, then taking more, then taking a partial dose - your head's all over the place. Phone your GP and get proper advice - and please stop asking people on the forum for their opinion on what you should do with your meds. That's not a question we're qualified to answer.
  11. You don't use ERP for this. ERP is where you exposure yourself to what is troubling you and then practise not responding. It's a deliberate exercise you do as part of changing your attitude and beliefs around the OCD worry. When you're already 'going round in circles' the thoughts are in your head most of the time and not responding is what you're finding most difficult. The simplest (and best) thing to do is get your mind onto other things by getting on with whatever you're supposed to be doing that day. Keeping both mind and hands occupied works better than just distracting your mind alone. You have to decide that you're not going to think about it any more. That sounds obvious, but it's not always so. A large part of you desires answers, feels certainty is essential etc. That part of you wants to ruminate! Really, really wants to keep ruminating, no matter how much distress going round in circles is causing. So you have to decide; I'm going to prioritise stopping this misery over answers and certainty. And then do it. Every time the thought(s) cycle round your head, demanding attention, you gently set them aside with a 'Not now. I'm not engaging with that worry any more.' Then you bring your thoughts back to the task at hand or something non-OCD you want to think about. Your mind will naturally keep prompting you with the OCD thoughts, so you decline to go there again, return to what you were doing. And again. And again. At first it might be as little as a minute or two before the worry recurs, but the more you set it aside in favour of something else the longer it will get between cycles, and eventually the worrying thoughts will stop popping up at all. Mindfulness can be very helpful with learning this technique. Think of your brain wanting to engage with the OCD thoughts like a puppy you're training to sit on a mat. When it bounces around and barks for attention and strays off the mat, don't get cross or upset. Just gently return the puppy to the mat, repeat 'Stay' (I'm not going to engage with this') and get back to what you were doing before. Then it's just a matter of practise, practise, practise until the puppy (your brain0 finally catches on to what it's supposed to be doing.
  12. I'm not a procrastinator, just an eternal optimist. I always think there'll be more time tomorrow to do what I didn't get done today! :laugh:

     

  13. This is one of those very sensible, well-balanced posts that I'd love to bookmark and refer people back to. Sounds like you've had a good career as a Jack-of-Many Trades, McW.
  14. Ok, let's get one thing clear from the start. Having thoughts that you're going to push people down the stairs or stab them is normal. It's not OCD. Obsessing that you might cause harm, worrying because you had the thought that you might push someone or stab them, and continuing to worry despite being told you don't need to - that's OCD. Your mum spoke to a priest, was reassured, and let it go. That's not OCD, that's normal. If she engaged with the memories when they occurred again - then maybe that might indicate OCD. But just to have the memories pop back into your head - that's 100% normal. What makes something OCD is how you respond to an intrusive thought. Not just having them. Everybody gets intrusive thoughts. It's normal, it happens often, it doesn't stress them out. They dismiss them with ease and don't give them any meaning. But if you respond to the intrusive thought by engaging with it, interpreting it as 'I thought it therefore I must intend/want/ like doing it' that's the start of the obsessive cycle. Then you're so horrified by the belief you might act on the thought that you do compulsions to try to ensure you don't act on it. And if you don't nip that obsessive-compulsive response in the bud then it can become full-blown OCD. Based on what you wrote here I can't say whether your mum has OCD or not. But from the way she dismissed the original 'harm' thoughts and wasn't bothered by them when they recurred - that suggests to me that she's responded in the way a normal-thinking person would rather than in the way someone with OCD would respond.
  15. If it was normal thinking, you'd review the past, make a decision and move on. When it's OCD you go round in circles, never satisfied with the answers you get, never completely sure you've made the right decision - so you review it again, and again. Which does it sound like to you?
  16. How do you 'deal' with it? Are you 'dealing' with it by neutralising or rationalising it to yourself? (Compulsions) There may be a clue in the way you respond that helps explain why it remains a recurrent problem. Good idea. Remember that you aren't seeing evidence. You're seeing something you interpret as 'evidence'. Very different things. OCD arises from the misinterpretation of thoughts and feelings. Thinking, 'Oh no, X got sick and that means I caused it' is you making an interpretation of something so that it seems connected when it isn't. There's probably also a lot of unconscious thinking (core belief stuff) going on... 'I caused harm therefore I ought to feel guilty.' And so you create the guilt you feel (and the anxiety) in order to bring about the expected / correct (according to my core beliefs) result! It can get very layered and complicated when we delve into our core beliefs and how they drive our responses. But it's a very worthwhile exercise to do. And though changing these ingrained thinking paths isn't easy, it's very, very worthwhile to give it a go!
  17. It means nothing of the sort! I didn't mean anything more than exactly what I said. You think it's a valid concern, therefore to you it is something that warrants thinking about in a rational way. My opinion is irrelevant. But note the key words - in a rational way. That means stepping back from the fear and asking yourself non-emotional questions about what you might gain from going to a Neurologist, and whether it will answer specifically the questions you want answers to, or whether it would just leave you in the same place as before - still obsessing about the risk of you getting dementia. Personally, I do think your desire to see a neurologist is the result of being obsessional. @Caramoole asked you some time ago what the nature of the repeated head injuries you sustained was, but you never replied. That's fine, you're under no obligation to tell us any more about yourself than you're comfortable with sharing. But that does leave us forming our opinions about whether a neurologist is necessary or not based on how you talk about this overall. And there I see all the hallmarks of obsessional thinking and obsessional 'reasoning'. Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous! Great to hear that you're getting on with life despite the worries in the background. It's all anyone can do. Happily, the less attention you pay to all that mind-fluff in the background, and the more you commit to and immerse yourself in the moment, the quieter and less intrusive all that background worry becomes. So just keep on keeping busy. The ideas 'everything is fruitless' and 'I definitely could not cope with it' are just more intrusive thoughts. More catastrophic thinking. The result of how you talk to yourself rather than truths or reality. For example - are those fabulous things you've spent your timing doing recently really pointless whether they lead to something more or your life ends before they bear fruit? Are they not things worth doing in their own right? However small and insignificant our day to day lives may seem, it's the sum of all those tiny things that gives real meaning to our lives. Not some sweeping idea of 'an-entire-life-wasted-by-getting-dementia-in the end'. All we have is the small things. The moment to moment. We leave our mark on the world in billions of tiny ways, through millions of actions and interactions with other people. If we're looking for meaning in our lives that's where we'll find it. I think it's good advice for everyone to spend a bit of time thinking about the meaning of their life. Deciding what your life means gives you something to hold onto on the days you can't see the point in what you're doing, and acts as a signpost to get you back on the right path if you start to lose your way. It gives you a strong sense of self-worth. Importantly, you and you alone decide what the meaning of your life is. And you're free to change it as your interests and priorities change. It can be about the kind of person you want to be - 'to live as a nice person'. Or it can be specific - 'to do this, this and that'. Or it might be deep and thought-provoking - 'I changed the world by doing this...and being like that...' Doesn't matter what you decide the meaning of your life is, as long as it makes sense to you, and gives you the feeling that your life has purpose and value (meaning.) Whatever it brings. I wonder if some of your catastrophic assumptions you make around what it would mean if you developed dementia might come from not having a clear sense of the purpose and value of your life as a whole. Is it something you've ever pondered?
  18. So the sooner you get yourself onto that waiting list the better. I've got a hammer and nails in my tool box, but I've never taken them out of the toolbox and put them to use. Does the 'fact' I've not got shelves up on my wall prove that my wall is incapable of holding up shelves? We first have to learn how to use the tools of recovery (through CBT). And then we have to apply those tools consistently and do lots and lots of practice. (The first shelves you put up probably aren't going to be 100% perfect. The 1000th time you put up shelves you'll be pretty darn good at it!) Hmm. So your usual technique is slightly faulty in that the strategy is to convince yourself none of your worries are real. What if instead you applied the stategy of accepting your thinking gets a bit skewed, that the way you're interpreting things gets a bit off, and that compulsive behaviours like ruminating don't fix the wonky thinking... see the difference? Your worries can be real as real can be, but by thinking about them in a different way you find solutions. Behaving in a way that doesn't rely on compulsions to give you short-term relief teaches you that it's ok to interpret things a different way, that the sky doesn't fall because you change how you look at stuff. So go on... What is this unspeakable thing that's happened? Will you allow us to help you to process it? And in case you're stuck on the 'but this is r e a l and there's evidence because the person is not fine' line of thinking, let me just say that one of my past obsessions was being responsible for somebody's death. There was even a dead body in front of me as 'evidence'. But I learned how to process it eventually, once I got my head around it in a new way. So, is what you've done more terrible than that 'reality'?
  19. Well, talk about dodgy advice... I think perhaps the people on the alternative forum are wearing OCD goggles themselves and may therefore not be seeing things as clearly as they might. Ah, there's the crux of it. Of course nobody would deliberately put their family in danger. That's normal. Goes without saying! BUT - the danger OCD imagines you're exposing your family to is WAY out of proportion to the real risk. So, it is normal to drill holes in your asbestos-containing artex if that's what's required, and simply take the sensible recommended precautions when doing so. (No need to go to the lengths your obsessive fears demand.) It's not normal to put off necessary repairs because of an obsessive fear. Nor would a mentally well person put off repairs because of a 'normal' level of fear. They'd 'feel the fear and do it anyway.' They'd make the experts doing the job aware of the presence of asbestos, ask them to take the industry-recommended precautions, and then delegate the job to the experts without interfering or doing additional 'preventative measures' themselves. Imagining the experts aren't taking 'enough' precaution when they just roll up their sleves and get on with the job is yet more obsessive thinking. You really think they value their own lives, and the health of their own families, less than you value yours? They'll be taking every necessary precaution and then some as a matter of routine! At no point has anybody suggested you get complacent about the risks. Recovery doesn't mean 'not caring'. It means getting things back into perspective. It means thinking about things differently. All you're aiming to give up is the unnecessary, unhelpful aspect - the obsessive thinking that has paralysed you and allowed your house to fall into disrepair. If you get a further bout of obsessive thinking down the line that has you imagining you've done wrong and put your family in danger by having the repairs done, then you tackle that bout of obsessive thinking in the same way as you tackle this bout of obsessive thinking - getting things back into perspective, letting go of the ruminations, moving on with your life without wasting time on unnecessary worry - and without giving up on life because your obsessive thoughts try to convince you you've done wrong. Until a few years ago I too made the mistake of thinking that 'recovery' meant 'giving in'. I dug my heels in and became even more defensive and obsessive. Thankfully, I eventually listened more carefully to what I was being told. It wasn't about 'giving up' or 'giving in' at all. Recovery means changing your obsessive thinking to normal thinking. To stop seeing the world through OCD-tinted goggles and look at things the way people without OCD look at things. That isn't the same as 'not caring' or 'not being afraid sometimes.' People without OCD care, and get anxious at times, but they don't let their thoughts run away with them and allow imagined fears to paralyse them. If 'recovery' in your mind has become a picture of hopelessness, caving in, not caring, putting your family at risk... I'd not see the point either! So thankfully that picture of what recovery looks like isn't reality. You're aiming to get to a point where you can keep your obsessive fears and imagined consequences in check To get to where you can deal with the normal, rational fears around asbestos and risk in a normal, rational way. And then to 'feel the uncertainty and do it anyway' by getting the necessary repairs done, and not postponing future repairs because of OCD. Oh yes - and to get back to enjoying living in a comfortable, well-maintained, safe home with your family.
  20. Have you watched the conference video about Uncertainty? Making sense of uncertainty Hope it helps.
  21. @MLJ I came across this video from one of our charity's conferences. It's intended for parents of children rather than parents of an adult sufferer, but I thought you might find it useful. How to motivate your child to engage with therapy
  22. Exactly. Sensible question, but sadly the answer is no. It's not intended to be a get out of jail free card that condones doing compulsions to your heart's content for 15 minutes! (Although I think it does get interpreted that way by a lot of people.) 'Worry time' is time set aside to think about a genuine problem in non-obsessive ways. 'Normal worrying' if you like. Googling about head injuries and researching neorologists are compulsions. You've done them to death already. They haven't solved the problem or helped you to make an informed decision. Further googling/researching or compulsions of any sort won't solve the problem or help you make a decision, so doing that again is a backward step, not a step forward. But it's perfectly reasonable to set aside some time to think through where you're up to on deciding whether or not to see a neurologist. (Making a decision about something which genuinely needs a decision made on it.) I wouldn't label it as 'worry' time, but if thats what you want to call it then fine. Maybe 'review where I'm at on making a decision' time would be a better label! That reminds you that the point is to use the time to move you forward in some way. Which brings me to another point about worry time in general that I forgot to mention in my earlier post. Allowing yourself some designated 'worry time' at some point in the day is intended to free up the rest of your day. So that you only engage with the topic you have a tendency to ruminate on for a brief time each day rather than spending every waking moment on it. If used in that way it can be a very helpful tool - the delay in engaging with your obsession teaches you that you don't have to give in to a compulsion the instant you get the urge. The urge to ruminate is typically powerful and often overwhelming. But if you're used to waiting until a designated time to think about/ engage with a problem, it shows you that ruminating can be delayed, or not done at all. Which is a helpful lesson to learn.
  23. Looking at how thoughts influence feelings and behaviour using the vicious flower diagram for starters, and though I'm not up on quoting references like you, Angst, yes it's been researched and is used by the top psychologists in OCD. Then there's all the ACT (acceptance commitment) stuff, reviewing your inner dialogue, learning self-compassion, looking at cognitive distortions etc. My point is that Theory A/Theory B is only one of many possible aporoaches. A good therapist will often try more than one approach and continue with whichever one resonnates best with that particular client. Cognitive therapy isn't a one-size-fits-all outfit - or if it is then the best analogy would be the most stretchy and pliable lycra garment ever made!
  24. Perhaps no-one replied because what you wrote is a rumination you've been playing out in your head. It's a plea for reassurance, not a request for advice or support in tackling your obsessions. How are you getting on with therapy? What strategies have you learned to help you break away from these pointless ruminations about the past?
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