Philosophical ocd and harm ocd

[intothewild]

Well, just when I thought I couldn't get any worse, I now have intrusive thoughts about harming my little brother. 

Since the day I read about descartes evil demon, I've been having on and off thoughts that manifested as inner voices telling me that reality is fake, and that I'm gonna die and suffer for eternity. Those inner OCD "voices" have changed and now they're telling me that I have to kill my little brother to snap back into the real world. 

It's completely absurd, and it causes quite a bit of suffering. Whenever I think I'm starting to recover, those "evil demon" thoughts just demolish everything. 

Any advice? 

[snowbear]

Hi intothewild,

Have you had any CBT yet? What coping strategies are you currently using when troubled by the thoughts? 

[intothewild]

I just try to ignore them, but I always end up on the internet, looking for reassurance.. 

[BM94]

Hi intothewild,

Sorry to hear you're struggling.

17 minutes ago, intothewild said:

I just try to ignore them, but I always end up on the internet, looking for reassurance

Ok so first point, this needs to stop. It's a compulsion.

How much do you know of OCD?

As someone who struggles particularly with various Harm OCD manifestations, it is key to recognise when you're doing a compulsion and try to cut them out. These fuel your OCD and just add to your doubt - you going and seeking reassurance online is exactly this. It will be hard but OCD will persist if you continue to do it.

When thoughts like that comes in, it's also key to remember that they are just thoughts, and they dont mean anything whatsoever. They are insignificant and dont require our attention. You are giving a lot of attention to the thoughts and therefore they are causing you a lot of distress. The distress feels like massive rushes of fear and then makes you feel like you have to respond to them in whatever way eases the discomfort. It may work for a time at the beginning but will keep fuelling your OCD long-term.

I hope this helps.

B

[BM94]

30 minutes ago, intothewild said:

I just try to ignore them

Also one other point, this won't help you either.

When you try to ignore them or resist them, you are effectively still giving them the unnecessary attention, therefore causing the thoughts to keep bouncing back at you over and over. 

As hard as it might seem, the key is to accept you're having these thoughts, understand that they have caused distress, and just tag them as thoughts, that is all they are. The more you fight them the more they'll keep coming at you, because OCD knows it has your full attention.

Try to respond to them this way - "ok I'm having this thought and it causes me discomfort, but that is all it is, a thought. There is nothing that needs to be done here."

[intothewild]

Yeah, but I'm still struggling with the whole "uncertainty" part. 

I mean, it's kinda hard to just accept that the world could be fake (or that others aren't conscious), and my brain keeps making weird theories about the universe that seem absurd, but are very scary

 

[snowbear]

You don't have to accept anything either way.  Living with uncertainty means shrugging your shoulders at it, not getting bogged down in what's true or false. Saying to yourself that either way it's not that important instead of wanting it to be one way or fearing it might be another way. 

[BM94]

7 hours ago, intothewild said:

I mean, it's kinda hard to just accept that the world could be fake (or that others aren't conscious), and my brain keeps making weird theories about the universe that seem absurd, but are very scary

So with the philosophical thoughts that you're struggling with as well, what you've done is gotten yourself stuck in a loop of "what if, what if" thoughts etc. 

There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow with OCD  - if you continue to think the what if thoughts it will create further doubt and further distress for you.

Snowbear is right you just have to accept uncertainty.

You've got your worried voice saying "what about this what about that", and your false comfort voice is saying "oh yeah good point maybe you should look into this further", and they are going on and on and on in your head.

Over there in the background you've also got your wise voice, which is sat there saying "I am registering these thoughts and filing them into the spam box in my brain, they're not important and dont require my attention whatsoever".

Everybody has this voice, but OCD sufferers fixate on the conversation that worried voice and false comfort voice are having, getting themselves stuck in that vicious cycle. You can break out if it you just need to remember that these are just intrusive thoughts and that you should treat them as such.

Chin up

 

[Xenia the Thundercat]

I don’t think most people accept uncertainty about whether or not the universe is real or the Descartes issue; they very distinctly do believe in the real world.

I suffer from a mangled derivative of what you have, which started I think the same way. It originated with Christian hellfire fear in childhood, which I think formed a kind of nexus, clump, bundle of neutrons and thoughts/sensations that fuelled later problems after I gave up Christianity and embraced the religion of Science, Reason and ‘secular humanist’ goody-two-shoes talk. The parasite eventually built its nest in smatterings of philosophy and other fields I had picked up from the Internet as a teen, retaining the eternal scope of Christianity and the uncertainty of pseudo-rational-skeptic sanctimony.

i suggest working to increase cognitive closure. Contemporary quasi-religion uses uncertainty selectively as an attack on rival, older belief structures; alas a certain conscientious type is susceptible to actually taking such ideas seriously.

(I am here avoiding more specific terminology on purpose so as to avoid sending you off in the wrong direction. Makes me look kinda silly but I hope you can appreciate the sacrifice)

Also try epistemological pragmatism as a substitute for your current epistemology. At some point I was forced to realise that human belief systems do not and cannot function by substantiating everything by valid inferences with true premises. If that were so, the true premises themselves would need justification, ad infinitum. This doesn’t work, since the brain lacks infinite time and resources.

Alternative explanations can always be invented; nothing can be proven by logical inferences alone. You have to instead tase logic as a tool for identifying and resolving contradictions thus discovering new things. Also, accept from Nobel prize winners Kahneman and Tversky that Cognitivrly strenuous, wordy, thinking is not the usual way of operating, is a tiny fraction of the brain’s resources and not a fast or efficient or pleasant way to operate in most situations. I can tell you from experience that over-growing your System 2: you’r explicitly reasoning system, leads not to truth but to delusion. Performing cognitive checks lessens the vividness of experience. Make sure to balance out your thinking with real life.

i have rejected reason as the basis for a belief system. I loathe rational skeptics, secular humanists and other goody two shoes. Nobody takes reason seriously except the insane. Instead, genuine scientists use it as a specific tool for solving some problems in Science and trying to avoid coming up with anything too obviously absurd *given existing beliefs*. Philosophers may write about these epistemological problems from time to time, but do not actually spend their lives trying to live by them or needi)g any definite refutation of them. Descartes thought his little thought experiment was funny I think.

I think the only way out is to attack, destroy, reject the parasitic memeplexes that led to your current approach to belief — the assumption that one should question one’s assumptions should itself be questioned. Also attack morality itself, or at least put it in its place. Learn to accept wishful thinking, to live sensuously as a Satanic individual, with a Crowleyan will. Does this model feel like it’s moving me towards my goal? No? Don’t want it. Yes? Great, amplify. Use beliefs as tools. Find a game in life and play it. Find yourself as part of a group, moving with its Dasein.

Edited January 30, 2022 by snowbear
removed swearing/ attempt to bypass swear filter