Saffie

I actually have that book on my Amazon 'saved for later' list. Jack Kornfield is great. I've mostly been listening to Adyashanti's non-dual inquiry talks this past year, and doing gently inquiry into the nature of 'who' is thinking, observing etc. It helped a lot. I don't know if I could go back to certain practices after some of the experiences, it's like Pandora's Box - once you see that most of us live in complete illusion every single day, you can never fully 'unsee' it. Learning how to live in the world after that is the hard part. You're right in that our culture is spiritually cut off, it's why there's so much suffering. We're just so far from out true selves we've forgotten who we are. The 'other' personality attacks this and says it's not true, that I have always been a selfish, dramatic person and have created this whole illusion to deal with that. It's not even a matter of fearing that at some points, when I fall into that reality it is the truth. It's only when I come out of it, like a bad drug trip, that I start obsessing of 'what's true'. Sometimes I don't know where the line is between psychosis and obsessive thinking, I've definitely slipped over at times. Today I'm pretty numb to it all, everything looks different again, but not bad. It's insane how quickly it switches. There's nothing I can really do with it except hang on as best I can, and go with it.

Yeah definitely, I used to use alcohol and drugs a lot, although not anymore. Socialising is pretty exhausting, but this has got a lot worse over the last year or so. I need to be alone most of the time now. I also used to go on highs working in sales, then crashed. They'd up my dose of Prozac and I would be high as a kite for a few months, then level out, crash, up it again, crash, add new meds, crash and ended up hospitalised a few times. It was a really messed up cycle really. Luckily I no longer have those extreme highs since I got down to 5mg, and my 'normal' periods of mood are not high, but quieter and more even. But they sure did leave their mark. Although now I'm stuck with a 'bipolar' diagnosis from that time, which is ****. I was in hospital with people who had real bipolar and I certainly don't have it. I'm really loathed to trust professionals with diagnosing stuff after all the things they've thrown at me in the past. It seems to be mostly a careless guessing game. Anyway, went off on a tangent there. I very much am confused by the mask and where it ends and I begin, I think this could quite possibly be a big part of the identity confusion. At some point during the withdrawal stuff this just exploded, as if I broke up into pieces and have been frantically trying to keep afloat since. At the same time I've been letting go as much as possible, because during many deeper meditations I sensed that this sense of self is really just an illusion anyway. As mentioned above, without proper guidance and continued practice, this probably complicated things. There have been many experiences meditation wise where all these 'issues' become literally non-existent. Things like ocd etc just aren't a thing, because I'm not 'me' anymore, but in a good way. There's nothing but peace and the movement of thoughts etc happening. I'm sure this is a common meditative experience, but the cognitive dissonance between that and experiencing its polar opposite as described above, is extremely distressing mentally. Good to consider this, I'm sure I will more when my head is a bit clearer.

Just wanted to say I feel your hopelessness in the original post, I've been there a lot. It's an illusion that there is no hope, as long as we're alive there is hope. And a lot more than we realise. Our medical model is generally focused on pathologizing everything, telling us we're ill, need to be medicated etc etc. In my experience, I've never felt less empowered than when dealing with most (not all) professionals in the area of mental health. It's no wonder you've felt like there's not much hope for significant improvement, we have an entire system that diagnoses, labels, makes everything an illness rather than an opportunity for change or growth, and medicates to numb symptoms. I've seen personally as well as read many stories on other support sites of people who have recovered completely from very serious disorders, including bipolar and schizophrenia, without drugs and more fully than any doctor or psychiatrist ever predicted. I was in hospital a few years ago with a woman who was considered one of the most clinically depressed people in there. I think it was almost psychotic depression, she attempted suicide while I was in there and was sectioned several times. She was told she would be heavily medicated and ill for life. She weaned herself off meds, was told she'd be back in there or dead within a year. Abandoned the doctors and went through hell for 18 months of severe withdrawal, found a unique therapist who got to the root of her issues, and has been meds and depression free for several years now. I spoke to her a while ago and it was heartwarming, she is happier than ever, is working, in a relationship and caring for her daughter. Never believe you are beyond help. There's no doubt you're suffering, and this guilt comes from a sense of feeling you should be somewhere other than where you are. You deserve support and kindness. Don't give up, but also go easy on yourself. Wishing you all the best

I will, and thanks for the link. Many of the things described sound like it could be a possibility, although I questioned it a lot initially because socially I can actually be very good with people. I was really good at sales over the phone for instance in a previous job, and when I had a social life was often very lively and talkative. But then again, this fluctuated, and maybe I'm jst extrememly good at adapting to situations. The chameleon thing resonates a lot. You're not being repetitive. I agree it can be a minefield and many people just don't have the support to deal with what comes up, in the old days we had communities for things like spiritual awakening. But being more isolated as a culture has made this a lot harder. I became obsessed at one point that I needed to 'pick' a tradition of Buddhism because it became all important to commit fully, right now, or I'd lose the 'chance'. At the same time I also knew it's not something you can force or practice effectively with a sense of urgency. So I entered a big spiritual crisis. It sounds like we've experience a lot of the same things. Thank you for sharing this. It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one. That automatically springs to mind at times, but another side of me is in deep conflict with it and feels I just am terrified of being this weak person. There are so many nuances and complexities in the human psyche, I know to analyse it is completely pointless. Yet this morning it was more real than anything I've experienced in a long time, except once or twice during 'episodes' like this this past year. It's like a terrible black hole of another reality I fall into, I don't understand it at all. Thanks for you kind words. That imposter feeling of hiding awful things has never been so strong, except maybe when I had my first sudden episode as a teen. Although I think that was triggered by going on the contraceptive pill, as I went from functioning fine to a complete wreck shortly after going on it. That first time of whatever that was has haunted me ever since. And over time you form new knock on issues as you describe to cope with the fear. I appreciate you reaching out.

I was actually discussing this with my Mum recently and looked it up. My little brother was also just diagnosed with aspergers. Some of it does certainly resonate, although my mind is so screwed up I can't discern too well at the moment. I don't want to convince myself of something else, as I'm good at that. But maybe it's something I should bring up with my therapist? Thank you

I appreciate you sharing this. It resonates a lot. My ocd is definitely a coping mechanism for feelings of extreme abandonment in all senses. I remember the first time it happened when I was 16, just sitting there at the computer one day, something I read triggered it and that was it...the whole world collapsed. It certainly is worse than death. When I let go I find a similar thing, that things go sort of numb for a bit and just kind of carry on, but nothing so bad happens. What I find makes this go in intense cycles is that I don't feel I can let go of who I feel I am at my core, that it's not possible to feel real love so whatever I do feel after that is just delusion. As you say, life without love is unliveable. And some people are so damaged, such as narcissists, that they aren't capable of love. This is what it boils down to at the moment, that all the periods where I'm feeling 'normal' are just an elaborate illusion I've created to cope, they aren't real. And that I'll always come back to this because it's the truth. I don't know what to do with that. It very much feels like it would take a complete identity breakdown to move past this, and possible psychosis. Like you say, therapists aren't usually familiar with the spiritual aspect of this which is why spiritual emergency is often treated in our culture as mental illness. I've no idea if that's part of what's happening, or if the medication has just screwed me up. Either way, there's practically no help even if I was able to reach out for it. Thank you for your kind replies, just getting through one minute at a time right now.

Yes, that's exactly what it's like. A complete absence of love or the potential for love. Just darkness, like I'm dying and there's no way out. But worse than dying because there's no relief. It feels like this is the thing that has been waiting for me my entire life. The thing I denied and couldn't face. I agree that being human is inherently hard. If there is hope of forgiveness, change, love etc I can carry on, get through it. But without that there's nothing at all.

Can't respond properly because I'm going through a really rough time but just wanted to say you aren't alone. No reassurance, it won't help. But try and accept this for the unimportant thing it was x

Yes, this dark night experience started around a year and a half ago. I thought it was ending, but it's only getting worse. I was doing cbt with someone, although we only have four more sessions funded. Also seeing a somatic experiencing therapist. I'll read up on compassion based therapy, it would just be financially difficult to start something else as I don't work anymore. And psychiatry won't refer me for anything because they don't deal with protracted withdrawal cases generally. Compassion seems so painful, the problem is that I can't ever allow myself to experience it from myself or anyone, because it feels hollow. I don't know who I am, so connecting with anyone in that way just doesn't feel possible. It's complete agony, I can't even describe it.

Not preachy at all, thanks. I don't meditate with a teacher anymore as things got so bad I took a step back from it. Since the medication issues it's very hard for me to meditate and I don't force it, just some simple inquiry stuff or breathing meditation sometimes. I also moved to the country so am not near the classes anymore. Revealing this to myself has skewed my sense of everything. I trust myself even less than ever, my whole life feels like a lie, all the ways I distracted myself for years were just making it worse. I've no idea how to live with this.

Thanks BigDave. I thought the same myself, but in reality narcissism is rooted in self hatred. Non existent self esteem to this degree is dangerous, to both self and others. Aside from all my external erratic behaviour is simply absolute terror, which is classic narcissistic fear or not being worthy. I can sometimes feel how toxicI am to be around, which is probably why I have hardly any friends left. I've isolated myself so much but it's really been from fear because I can't honestly connect with others. I'm just terrified this will lead to suicide.

Thanks for your reply Orwell. It's the intense shame that makes me feel this is the case, it's always been there but surfaces so violently I can't bare it. Without the numbing of so much medication it's as if I'm finally seeing things more clearly for the first time, and I can't handle it. I've been monstrous to people. And all the while they feel sorry for me because I'm 'sensitive' and 'unwell'. I'm literally vibrating with shame, like I can't bare to be awake or around others because I'm so mortified. I remember feeling this many times before, but finding ways to block it out or rationalise it. How do you accept you're someone who can't accept themselves due to a deep, lifelong sense of shame? It doesn't seem possible. I've no idea how things could've turned out like this.

Hi, This past year I developed an ocd type fear of being a narcissist. This came about after a period of starting to face my issues more and looking at all the false beliefs I had. I know things have intensified for a number of reasons, but I've been having a pretty terrifying identity crisis on and off. I know rationally I'm not psychopathic, what concerns me is that ultimately I know I'm not the person I often present myself as. My sense of self is completely skewed, and pretty much non existent. On the one hand, I know I am very sensitive and intuitive in some ways. I always thought of myself as a good, compassionate person with high empathy and intelligence. However, since doing lots of meditation, I've started to see that this is not entirely true. I'm not the person I thought I was, although I don't know how far that goes and what part ocd has to pay in this. It's very hard for me to admit this, but I've realised that I have always had many of the following traits (anyone who knows me would clarify this too): a quiet sense of superiority (particularly with those closest to me), covert manipulation by being 'ill' a lot or being emotionally distressed, an inability to be vulnerable in front of people, episodes of nasty rage, jekhyl and hyde type behaviour, being a total know-it-all, never being able to be wrong, belittling my mother and younger siblings, being emotionally melodramatic and swinging from narcissism to self-loathing, telling little lies a lot, justifying my behaviour and therefore having everyone think I am just a 'complex, tormented' soul, being passive aggressive, covert attention seeking, a terrible martyr complex, and probably more. The worst thing is, I don't think I've ever been able to be completely open, honest and vulnerable to anyone in person my whole life. The terror comes from knowing I can't properly connect with anyone, ultimately without that you'll just go crazy, become nastier, or die by suicide. This has disturbed me so much and has been going in cycles of fear, shame and ocd obsessing as to how bad it is, to denial and blocking it out, to just trying to get on with things and sometimes forgetting about it completely. Even so, as soon as I'm around others again I notice how these horrible, vicious traits seem to surface. My empathy in general is low because I've been in so much pain, I don't know how to deal with other people's emotional stuff. I also have periods since reducing the medication of severe apathy, not feeling or caring about anything. Sometimes I can visibly see how uncomfortable people get around me, I know it must be pretty toxic. I tend to isolate a lot, which both helps and hinders. I did also read that it is not uncommon for people who believe they are empaths to actually be on the narcissistic spectrum. Being highly sensitive doesn't automatically equate to empathy. It feels like all my obsessive self analysis and absorption has made me just someone who can't be honest, and a covert narcissist. All of the ways I behave are of this nature, in fact I don't see how I could NOT be one. It also seems to run in my family (my brother is a borderline psychopath, and my sister is pretty narcissistic). The worst thing is I did always on some level believe I was a better person than them, but with honest reflection I'm not. The only difference is I'm not obvious about it in the way they are. It feels like I'm getting towards the truth, but at the same time I feel on the verge of complete mental collapse or psychosis. I have episodes of just having to hide away and cry, feeling dissociated, disgusted with myself. I simply can't face people because the act just starts all over again, to varying degrees. I can only tell people on the internet, I couldn't say this face to face. Not even to my therapist. Yet a part of me craves authenticity. I just don't know how I could have deceived myself this much. But at the same time I think I've known this on some level all along, I just became fixated on reassuring myself I was 'good'. Does anyone have any insight on this? I feel like there's no hope really. This level of low self-esteem and the created persona to go with it is, from what I know, pretty much not treatable and only gets worse. Any therapist will tell you narcissists rarely change, because it's just too painful. How do I live with myself? Thank you for reading if you got this far

Anxiety and doubt always make it feel like something terrible is going to happen or has happened. That's why it sucks. Your brain is a huge number of criss crossing firings and thoughts and neurons. You trying to figure out exactly what your intentions or thought processes were is quite frankly impossible. There's no way of figuring out... Try and see this before you send yourself further and further into doubt. This is all typical ocd analysis, and the only way out is not to engage in the questioning and observe the anxiety come and go.

What were you on and how long for? It's not recommended to stop cold turkey, that can cause protracted withdrawal effects down the line. Doctors don't have a clue about withdrawing safely so I wouldn't count on that. If you do start to feel withdrawal effects, please see survivingantidepressants.org for tapering guidance. You cannot go back to the starting dose as your nervous system will have been sensitized from the drop. You might get away with it if your CNS is fairly robust and you weren't on them too long, but if not please seek advice before starting again.

Hey, it was a long time ago I posted this. Truthfully it won't matter how I tell you it's not important, it'll only temporarily reassure you. The only real way to move past this is to allow yourself to be with the anxiety without analysing it. Thinking it out is an endless search, it honestly never ends. Surrendering to the not knowing is how you'll get clarity. You know deep down that trying to figure it out won't work, it'll only drag you deeper into the pit. But I do get where you're coming from. You're certainly not alone, these thoughts and feelings are very common.

@ocdsufferer85 oh really? Not sure why that is :/ I know this is an old post but is it something you could post here?

hi @ocdsufferer85 yeah sure

Thank you for your honest reply, it is a tough subject and people can get quite defensive one way or another, so I appreciate this kind of openness. I agree, slow tapering is essential for coming off any medication. This in itself might not always work, but cold turkey can be very dangerous. Prozac is often used as a bridge, although many have also experienced just as severe withdrawal from it compared to other drugs. So again, it's highly individual. I've attempted to taper of Prozac several times. I'm down to 5mg now, it took me almost 2 years to get there. According to the mods on survivingantidepressants.org, along with other research done by the likes of Dr Peter Breggin and Dr David Healy, there are certain ways you can differentiate between underlying illness and withdrawal. One being that withdrawal symptoms are much more severe, and another being that they will likely be alleviated to some degree very quickly after a small reinstatement. I found this to be true for me personally. The differences between underlying stuff and withdrawal (my original condition was mainly just OCD/anxiety, although again, I don't know how underlying that is because it was triggered by going on the contraceptive pill. My symptoms disappeared ten years later when I stopped it, and only returned in withdrawal) is a tough one. But I know intuitively that the majority of what I've experienced in withdrawal is just that, and not something underlying. These include things that appeared very suddenly and disappeared very suddenly, such as psychotic symptoms, physical panic that was like the entire body and nervous system violently shaking, some of the weirdest and disturbing physical symptoms, thoughts that have never even crossed my mind before, losing all sense of self, blind rage and violent urges...these were particularly disturbing. Early in withdrawal I raised my hand to my own mother, and was literally seething, I have never felt anything like it. I went into shock several times after these episodes, because it was like being possessed, and particularly distressing for someone with OCD who has a fear of harm. It was only when I went on the above forum and saw just how common this is, that I realised I wasn't a monster and far from alone. The number of direct correlations between Prozac use and homicide is very troubling. After going through the last year though, it all makes sense and doesn't surprise me. As you say, I really do think it's important for people to be much more careful before they decide to go for medication. Apart from the countless similar stories on Surviving Antidepressants about lives completely ruined by psych meds, I know multiple cases personally, both with family and friends, where the same thing has happened. It almost makes you wish you just had to deal with your original issue. So yeah, caution is advised and I definitely think more research needs to be done into this. However, this too is unlikely as it's hardly profitable. The drug trials for the manufacturers of drugs like Prozac are highly biased, usually with hand-picked results and many reported effects left out. Their motivation is not their customers' health, and it would do us well to remember that. Do we really want to risk our already fragile mental states by trying drugs which are essentially experimental in nature? It's good that people are finally having this discussion more openly. There's no shame in taking medication, I was a big proponent of them for years. But now we are getting access to more information, it is important to reconsider what we've always taken for truth. I hope everyone is able to do that before making these kinds of decisions health-wise.

To the op, however, if you're thinking about medication all I'd say is to do your own research beforehand. It has to be totally your own decision. Also, make sure you have other things in place, focus on cbt therapy etc as a primary treatment, and use the meds for as minimal amount of time as possible if you do decide to use them (and at the lowest dose). Don't rely on doctor's advice, it's not always right. Best of luck whatever you choose

Totally respect what you're saying, but I have to disagree with the part about most people stopping easily. The latest report from the parliamentary group formed to investigate this found over 50% of people had such severe long term withdrawal that it left them unable to work. I'm not going to advise anyone on medications but I do feel it's important to make people aware of the risks, which are increasingly coming to light and more serious than first thought (my own doctor and cpn have agreed with this). So personally, I wouldn't touch medication with a barge pole unless you were literally at the point of immediate risk, and even then I'm not sure. But yeah, it's a tricky subject and ultimately the individual's responsibility whether they want to take those risks.

Hi guys, I hope you're all managing the Christmas period as best you can. I wanted to ask something, mainly because it's come up today and I don't have another CBT session til January. So, like most people here, I've often had an issue with gauging appropriate responsibility. I've often been hyper-responsible, but also on the flipside spent several years being excessively irresponsible. I took many risks, got into dangerous situations, and was generally quite destructive and impulsive. I'm still paying for that now but what's done is done, I was on various drugs and just not a very well person. Fast-forward to now, my lifestyle is very chilled. I've been off class A drugs for 2 years, don't drink, don't really socialise much, eat well, exercise, all the rest of it. During the erratic pattern of withdrawal from Prozac I've had periods of real clarity where things like OCD don't affect me, and I can see things better than ever before. When I fall into a wave of it though, my sense of awareness almost disappears. It passes quickly enough, but it's as if I'm a totally different person. My skin hurts, I can't make logical thoughts, I feel like danger is everywhere, panic, terror, dissociation, etc etc. This week I've been considering this sense of responsibility in terms of a current situation. I'll be honest and lay it out here briefly: I have smoked some cannabis on and off, mainly starting it to help with a period of severe back pain. It doesn't affect me negatively (unless I have too much which is my own doing), and I try to limit it. Like anything, I believe moderation is key. That whole debate is for another thread so I don't really want to get into it too much. Earlier this year when I went through a really rough withdrawal episode, I was quite isolated. I got in touch with a friend I hadn't seen for a while and he came to visit to help me put together some furniture. I offered him a smoke, he'd never done it before but wanted to try it. I didn't think much of it at the time, it was the summer, we were just hanging out and it wasn't a big deal. So this friend has been visiting for several months now and has been a great companion during my ill periods. We get on well and have a good laugh, he also has experienced some depression and we've kind of been company for each other. However, he now very much likes smoking cannabis and does it a lot. He jokes about how much he loves it, and we have smoked together many times. He also drives to my house, and I said a few times I didn't like the idea of him driving and to be careful. But he insists he is and it's fine. Now, this week I was learning my theory driving test stuff so that's probably why this was triggered a bit - intrusive thoughts of car accidents etc. I felt quite anxious over the fact I introduced him to it, as well as invite him to drive up and hang out for a smoke, and now find it hard to tell what my responsibility is here. I do not want to fall into seeking reassurance, or over-emphasizing my responsibility. But I really am unsure with something like this. I do feel bad, and often tell him to not smoke too much. I've not had this type of OCD thing for a long time, as in worrying about something dangerous like that occuring and it being my fault. It's usually been sexual ocd themes etc. I do remember having a brief episode of it when I was about 12, I was paranoid my Mum would die if she was late and for some reason I'd be responsible. Since this came up quite strongly, I've done some deep breathing and carried on with stuff I need to do today, trying not to engage too much. Along with all this came the memory of things that happened in the past which I feel may have exacerbated this sense of responsibility. My family have had several tragedies, as do many, and I've realised how we're all similar in many ways as a result of these events. My stuff comes out as OCD, my sister's as intense rage and irresponsibility, my Mum's a mixture of both. Here are a few things that came to mind: When I was 8 my Dad was supposed to pick us up to take me, my little brother and sister out. He was rarely late, and my Mum said 'for god's sake, where is your dad?', To which I replied automatically, 'He's dead.' Apparently Mum said I looked shocked at what I'd said, and asked me to phone my grandmother to see if he's left her house yet. A police officer answered, he was dead (by suicide). A similar thing happened with my older brother years later. My Mum had, for the first time in years, begun to have a more fulfilled life. Someone asked her how she was and she recalls saying 'Things are really good, I feel more balanced and happy. The only thing I could never deal with would be the loss of one of my children.' The next day she got a call to say my brother, her first son, had died suddenly. Last year, my sister got a dog. She checked everything was fine with its papers, met the owner, heard the background, all seemed good. We'd said that all of that needed to be checked out beforehand as she has a toddler and didn't want to take chances. All was fine, my nephew loved the dog. My sister used to childmind for a friend, about six weeks later the dog randomly bit one of the little girl's in the face when she hugged him while he was asleep. It was deeply traumatising for all of them, the little girl was scarred for life, the other child now has severe panic attacks over it, and the dog was put down. I also remember having a sense as a kid that my auntie had died shortly before she did. I know these instances are all just things that can happen. Plus, I believe if you are a highly sensitive person you are much more in tune to danger, either real or perceived. It made me realise that there's no wonder me, and also my mother, finds it hard to gauge where our responsibilities lie. Particularly when another family member is suffering, but we also know they have to take responsibility for themselves. My sister's mental health is very bad at the minute, and we know we have to step back and not engage with the dramas she keeps creating. You can't help someone unless they want to help themselves. But as a result of various factors, along with the above type stuff, it is very tough for me at times to assess these situations healthily. Mostly I am quite detached from my family's stuff because I get overwhelmed easily and need to keep as balanced as possible. Me and my Mum are both learning that we are not responsible for other family members, and are constantly trying to be aware of our huge guilt complexes. With these types of situation, what are the ways you can healthy acknowledge responsibility? Without analysing or seeking reassurance? Many thanks, appreciate any responses

haha me too!! I'd say I'm in for a few more incarnations, but it would be nice if this was the last one...I'm tired lol. Totally, and you're very welcome. I never really treated my OCD while on medication, it kept me sufficiently numbed that I just managed it and avoided it better. Ultimately though, I've had to come back to the real work of treatment. And it does make a huge difference all round. I too wish I knew then some of the things I know now, but I guess that's what age is for...and there's plenty more to learn I'd say! :) Thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion, I know I'm a bit late responding. Good to contemplate (non-obsessively!) ;)

I just realised I replied to this the other day but hadn't seen a page of replies lol. In terms of this being obsessive, I get that some people will fall into that if they have OCD, but this is not something I analyze. It's something I've had insight on that has helped change the way I see things, and open up more possibilities. I'm not sitting analyzing root causes because that would be ridiculous and fruitless. What I'm saying is that, there are often underlying factors and we can become aware of these through therapy/life experience/whatever, and then we need to acknowledge them in conjunction with the OCD symptoms. For years I was simply told 'you have OCD, you need medication', as if it was some disease you are born with. As I've gotten a bit older I've seen quite clearly that I'm not fundamentally just someone with OCD, it's one part of a larger picture. Seeing that bigger picture is pretty transformative in itself. OCD has paled a fair bit in comparison to what psychiatric drugs have done to me, I had zero OCD issues for 2 years and nowadays even when it flares up I don't spend hours online checking like I would have when I was younger. I credit that massively to having insight into the bigger picture of myself and the habitual patterns I've been running off since childhood, many of which I was able to alter automatically just by being aware of them. So while I'm aware I may have some predisposition to OCD flare ups, that's all it is. There's plenty of things that contributed to it reaching the severity it did in my early 20's, but it wasn't OCD as such that was the problem. I'd become so focused on that and my 'identity' as an OCD sufferer that I sort of missed the point. Addressing underlying issues does not mean we necessarily 'cure' the OCD, but it can open up much more possibilities and make for deeper healing. Of course, there's no cure in the sense that there's no cure for the human condition, which is essentially varying forms of suffering, but I feel that people can have much fuller and free-er lives if they are able to see more of the parts that are fueling OCD behaviours. I hope that makes sense. I also totally agree about the not having a stable sense of self being a huge part of this fuel...appreciate those links posted, I'll have a read. I don't necessarily believe my lack of sense of self came from simply external factors, again, there's probably a number of things at play. One part of me knows very well that we all have our own individual karma (I believe from countless previous incarnations), so there is no 'one cause'. Yet this doesn't negate another part of me that feels it's important to not just look at the 'surface disorder'. There's always more to heal and we can go as deep as we like with that, given it's done in a healthy, integrated, gradual way. If someone finds benefit from CBT alone and they are happy with their quality of level, then great. Others may want to go further with their healing, it's totally individual and neither is better or worse than the other really. About the past life regression - there were a number of things that became clear from them, I won't go into it all here. But I was able to understand why I'm playing this role in this life a bit more, why I chose it on some level, and what mistakes I don't want to make again, such as taking on too much responsibility for others. It didn't cure anything and I didn't expect it to, but it was a positive experience overall. Great discussion anyway, lots of info that I can't process all at once right now lol. But my instinct has always been that balancing approaches works best, somehow meeting somewhere in the middle. Nature/nurture, brain abnormality/environmental etc etc. From the input here I think it's very individual, but that in many cases becoming aware of our other 'stuff' is an important part of treatment.

Hi guys, Apologies for the delayed reply, I'm not on here much. Thanks for your responses, it's good to hear others' thoughts and input. Few things I wanted to clarify - I don't believe psychodynamics therapy or talk therapy would be helpful, as I agree it's pretty ineffective for many conditions especially OCD. It's just mulling around in circles most of the time. I think what I mean is addressing these underlying beliefs in more up-to-date ways. There are many modern therapies and practices that can help people challenge their subconscious patterns and process them, including Organic Intelligence, somatic experiencing, jungian play therapy etc etc. As dskea said, I believe CBT should be along side other therapies to get things under control, but ultimately yes, this stuff has to be looked at if we're aiming for deeper transformation and recovery. Also, I've not done past life regression for years. It was very helpful at the time, along with a few others things which contributed to me being able to wean off medication. I managed to resolve a few underlying issues almost immediately through it, same goes for drinking Ayahuasca in a ceremony, but that's a whole other story lol. In terms of the spiritual side of things, I was always an atheist/agnostic. But now, I don't believe I would ever have got past that severe point of my OCD stuff without developing a spiritual practice. This was triggered by taking psychedelics in my early 20's (not recommending but explaining how it came to be) - I saw immediately that there was a whole reality outside of 'me' and my OCD. It made the mental issues seem ridiculously insignificant, and I still get glimpses of it at times. That alone was enough to start healing in huge ways and gave me an underlying knowing that everything is actually all okay deep down. Once you've had those experiences you never truly lose them, even if you get clouded over at times. After that last 'wave' of withdrawal, things are improving every day. I feel better now the past 2 months than I have, well, ever. I don't ever remember having this level of creativity, motivation, gratitude, hope. The difficult beliefs etc that are arising are doing so in a much more present way, in that I view them very differently than I would have a few years back. Bad days are just that, bad days. All former symptoms of withdrawal have disappeared (as they do during a 'window' phase), except for a little tinnitus at times. And the OCD is pretty non existent. Not that it won't flair up, my brain is still healing and I know there will be more waves, but it's quite astonishing the level of improvement. I feel like I'm coming alive, challenging my whole former identity, and it's exciting. Tough at times, but exciting. After each crazy wave it's as if things get gradually better and better. I'm looking forward to getting off the last 5mg. But I know this is a lifelong journey of self discovery once you start delving into these things. I appreciate being able to explore this stuff a bit with others here, so thanks again for sharing your thoughts :)