Saffron37

Man. That was just...a really awesome post, @determination987. I really needed that this morning. Thank you. @Summer9173, I can't say it better than @determination987 already has, just want to join the chorus of voices wishing you well and sending you a million hugs. You are such a lovely human being, and things are going to get better.

While I understand what Xenia is getting at, I'd really really suggest staying away from statistics, data, research to do with your fear. That sounds like a recipe to begin endless compulsions of reassurance-seeking and freaking yourself out further. When we're in a state of high anxiety we have to be really careful with what information we expose ourselves too--like taking the car keys away when we're drunk.

Ma, it seems like you’re asking a question that has no answer. We don’t know why OCD can make a person feel certain ways, just like we don’t exactly know why depression makes you sad or schizophrenia makes a person hallucinate. We have some clues based upon what we know of the brain and the psyche, but ultimately OCD is just the way it is. You feel like there’s some magic answer that will explain why this is happening, but there really isn’t one. It’s really tough, I know.

Ma, my advice would be to reread this previous thread of yours: Read the "incident" you were scared of in that thread, and see how it's identical in 99% of details to this situation. Read the many responses. Apply those responses here. This is all the same thing, over and over again. It's important to start seeing the bigger picture.

This right here, FlyingRocket. This is everything. You've had a really big insight--for the first time you've had a direct glimpse of OCD's tricks. Take this opportunity to start really challenging the OCD. When you start worrying about this new anxiety, say "Hey, hold on, I remember just yesterday I thought I would rather die than become someone who liked cuckolding. I remember feeling like there was no hope if I liked it. Why do I have no anxiety about it today? What does that tell me about what's going on?" This is why attempts to disprove any particular focus of OCD are pointless, because as soon as one fear is knocked down another will take its place. See what your true enemy is! It's not cuckolding, or whatever this new sexual activity is, or anything else for that matter. The enemy is the OCD. It has a million masks, but it's really always the same.

@Cora, my friend, you know that this is just another recycled cry for reassurance. You already have the answers you need for this and every other such situation. Please read the following carefully, and really think about it. Have you noticed that when you're reading other posts on the forum, you immediately can see that the person has OCD, and that whatever they're afraid of isn't true? Even when the person has fears that are remarkably similar, or even identical, to yours! And isn't it interesting how everyone here can immediately see that what you have is OCD, and yet each of us struggles in with our own obsessions and compulsions? I have--no joke--spent the last three hours self-checking a reflex on my toes to reassure myself it is normal. I have literally been staring at it over and over and doubting my own eyes. Despite knowing that it is completely ridiculous, I did it. Why? Because the urges were just too much for me this morning (it's early am in the States, my compulsions are always worst when I have insomnia) and I gave in. I have no doubt that if you were in the room with me for the past three hours, it would take you less than a nanosecond to immediately see that the only problem I have is OCD. Just like whenever I read one of your posts, it screams "OCD!" from sentence one. Why does this happen? Because we're not in each other's heads. You don't feel the awful gnawing feeling I get that something could wrong with me, that I have no choice but to test endlessly in search of some answer that doesn't exist about an illness I don't have. I don't experience the awful intrusive thoughts you have when you hug your brother or the terrible feelings of guilt and shame that drive your anxiety even higher. That's it. That's the entire difference. We can see each other's situation clearly because we aren't affected by one another's emotions. Emotions are powerful, Cora. Emotions are as powerful as drugs. And OCD anxiety, fueled by compulsions, is one of the most powerfully convincing emotions that exists. That's how OCD can feed us such nonsense--the emotions are so powerful that the thoughts don't have to make any sense for them to affect us. Please really think about all of this. Maybe go read another member's thread and see how quickly it's clear to you that they have OCD. I believe in you.

Wren, that's absolutely wonderful! I'm so happy to hear you've found success through your hard work. Thanks so much for sharing and reminding us that change is very achievable

This is exactly what happened.

It's my pleasure to reply, Rosie! I'm so glad you've found your way here! It's tremendously relieving to begin to understand that those thoughts and feelings are a disorder and not about you as a person at all. OCD one million percent creates feelings! Those feelings are not in any way what the person with OCD really wants--in fact, they are usually about things that the person with OCD finds particularly upsetting or awful. That's why you'll get a loving parent who has terrible thoughts and feelings about hurting their child, or a happy person with terrifying feelings that they want to steer their car into a tree. If anything, the content of your thoughts/feelings shows what you least want to do. Also, people with OCD never act on those thoughts or feelings. They are still totally in control of their actions, the OCD just makes it feel like it might not be the case. It's very scary but ultimately meaningless. It's really good that you're on the list for CBT. I'm sorry you've had bad experience with counselors in the past, that's really hard. However, a good counselor will make a huge difference in getting you feeling better! I'd really urge you to ask your counselor what their experience is specifically in treating OCD. Also, would you be open to reading a few books to learn more about OCD and how to treat it?

Cora, brains don't have on/off switches. It's almost impossible not to "go along with" thoughts that you are obsessed with. Your brain has been fed a nonstop stream of messages from you (via compulsions like reassurance-seeking and ruminating) that it must constantly be searching out and focusing on taboo sexual ideas--of course you're not able to stop those thoughts from happening instantaneously. You're interpreting everything you do with such an intensely negative filter that you've lost touch with common sense. If the only argument you can come back with is "I know, but it feels so real", then you're admitting that you're wrong. Full stop. Use that logical brain, girl.

Hi Rosie! I'm so sorry you're feeling worried and scared! People here are really kind and understanding--you've come to a good place. The important thing to remember is that the intrusive thoughts have zero significance or meaning to who you are as a person--in fact, they have no meaning whatsoever. It can be hard to believe that because the emotion in OCD can be so overwhelming, but it's true! The reality is that everyone gets momentary random thoughts about "taboo" topics, including things like what it would be like to be sexual with someone inappropriate like a family member. The difference between you (or one of the many people on this forum with similar obsessions) and a random person on the street is that because you have OCD, your brain latches on to that thought and gets extremely worried that it means something, which causes your anxiety to rise. Then, trying to make the anxiety go away, you perform some sort of compulsion to try and feel better, like ruminating (thinking about the intrusive thoughts obsessively) or avoidance of a situation you fear might provoke more intrusive thoughts. Unfortunately, the compulsions just strengthen the OCD, which then leads to more intrusive thoughts, then more compulsions, and so on. The trick here is to give the intrusive thoughts as little attention and importance as possible. OCD only has power if we consider its symptoms to have meaning. Over time, when you refuse to give in to OCD's temptation to perform compulsions, the obsessions will weaken and your anxiety will get much better. Are you receiving any treatment for OCD, Rosie? Have you tried any self-help books?

Thanks for the resources, Handy! I still think it's still important to thoroughly check each channel to make sure they are properly credentialed, etc., but it's good to know they're out there. Also, can we cut the disparaging remarks about medication? I know you're not a fan, but for a lot of OCD sufferers they are an essential part of recovery, taken for short- or longer-term.

The problem with this is that OCD warps your perception of your "intention" while performing an action. For example, when your niece handed you a blanket and you had an intrusive thought/feeling while she did so, you immediately began worrying that you had a "bad intention" when taking the blanket from her. If you assume that an action is "bad" if you have a "bad intention" (which for you, sounds like it usually means having an upsetting intrusive thought or feeling while performing an action), you'll go right back to endlessly ruminating on some imaginary bad intention! Instead, focus on what the outside world sees. Focus on the objective facts. You're accepting a blanket. You're taking care of your baby. Anything else only exists between your ears.

We call things "bad" because they cause harm. Hitting someone is bad because it causes the person hit to feel pain. Murder is bad because it takes away a person's life. Stealing is bad because it deprives someone of their possessions. Thoughts cannot be bad because they impact no one but the thinker. Thoughts mean nothing and can hurt no one else. So, that's part one. Everyone here knows that you are obsessed with "bad" thoughts and feelings, neither of which have the capability of doing any harm to anyone. So, we see that and obviously know that you haven't done anything wrong because no one but you is being hurt. I can hear you thinking, "But Saffron, I kept rubbing my feet under the blanket! That's an action!" No. Rubbing your feet in a place that could theoretically make contact with your baby's bum is not a harmful action. Taking a blanket from your niece is not a harmful action. Everything you've ever posted about is normal behavior and any thoughts or feelings otherwise are 100% OCD delusions. But you asked why the community doesn't think you did anything wrong. We all know that there is a terrible thought and emotion-based disorder called OCD that makes normal, lovely people believe that they are monsters. Every post you write screams of this disorder. It couldn't be more plain if you tried. All of us here see it for what it really is, because we are not living in your head and are not affected by your disorder. We see a Mum who loves her son and is imprisoned by, tragically, her own actions of ruminating, asking for reassurance and performing compulsions. We don't want you to get worse, we want you to get better, and so we try to help without enabling you. That is exactly what is going on here. Ma, this is the last time I'm going to offer you reassurance. I can't speak for other members, but I can't think of anything else I could possibly tell you that I haven't already. I want so badly for you to get better, but I worry that you're using the forum in a way that's not helpful.

Ma, you're an intelligent person. What do you think the answer to your question is?

Amazing post, @discuccsant! ??

How can a person with major depression feel suicidal if they have a good life? How can a person with schizophrenia hear voices if no one is there? Because mental illnesses do this: they make the sufferer feel things that just aren't true. Right, you feel. Feeling something doesn't mean anything at all--it's a feeling. You're treating your thought like it was a behavior, which it is not. You know why: because normal humans keep finding people sexually attractive even after they get married. This is the default human setting. It's not weird or abnormal. Something also to consider: you keep talking about how you feel that your wife doesn't know "the real you," that you feel like you need to confess your fantasies to her so that she sees who you "really are." But now think about the number of times you've confessed to your wife. How many times? Hundreds or thousands, I'd guess. Probably a wide variety of explicit fantasies. She knows all those things. What more information could you possibly give her that would add to her picture of you? What could you say that you haven't said to her a hundred times before with slight variation of details? Nothing, I'd guess. That's another way to know that when you feel like you want to confess, it has nothing to do with needing to tell your wife for her own benefit. It has everything to do with having a compulsive urge created by OCD.

Ma, there is no answer that any of us could provide that would satisfy your OCD. We're seeing the situation you're presenting in fundamentally different ways. We all understand what you're trying to say, we just don't agree at all with your interpretation. You see the possibility that you are an evil person because you had a "bad feeling" while continuing to make a movement that was in proximity to what you consider a "bad area" to touch your baby. We see a woman suffering terribly from an untreated mental illness and torturing herself with obsessions and compulsions, and who is feeding her illness by trying to elicit reassurance from the forum. OCD is endlessly hungry. Endlessly! It will never ever stop. Even if you put one specific anxiety to rest, the next is just around the corner--it's like the Hydra, you cut off one head and two grow back. You have to step back and really try to evaluate the bigger picture of what is going on here.

Can you try to explain, then, why what you've done is wrong? That's an honest request, not sarcasm. I think it would be helpful for you to attempt to articulate what exactly you think the problem is.

Ma, the only thing that "breaking it down" would do would be to enable you to keep making yourself worse. You're asking for reassurance, which is performing a compulsion. It may feel cruel to not be reassured, but the cruelest thing of all would be for us to become an ally of your OCD. Also, please know I say this with love: you are not delusional, but in this post you're acting as if you are. I've seen you comment on other members' posts with a lot of logic, insight and compassion, so I know that the problem is not your ability to grasp reality, the issue is that your emotions are so overwhelming that they're leading you to ask us something that is pretty bizarre. What you're asking us to do--to reassure you, I guess, that if your feet touched your child through a duvet it doesn't mean you're a bad person--is like asking us to reassure you that you're not a criminal because you like swiss cheese, or that you're not evil even though you were born in California. There's just no logical connection there. Answer your own questions. I know that you already know what the truth it.

I'm very proud of you, Ma!!! You can do this!!

Sorry you’re feeling badly, Ma. If someone else had written your post, what would you say to them?

Hi Cora. It seems like the last few days, you've been feeling really strange and out-of-sorts. Tell me if this rings true: you feel awful and despairing. You feel like you've done something terrible, but you can't think of what that might be or what specific situation is actually bothering you. You feel like you might go crazy from the fear and confusion, and you don't know why this is happening. Does this sound familiar? It certainly does to me, because I know I've felt it before. I think that this feeling is the core of OCD: doubt and pain and alarm with no reason or focus. It's almost more upsetting because there's no specific focus to the emotion, because the lack of sense if maddening. I think this might be what happens when a person with untreated OCD is between specific obsessions and for a brief time has no particular fixation. So if this is the case, what happens next? Our minds can't handle not having a cognitive (thought-based) structure to the emotions, so it searches endlessly until it finally find a new fixation to wrap the emotion around. Or, as is often the case, simply recycles an old fixation viewed from a slightly different angle: Like so. There can be a lot of relief associated with finally "finding the problem." It still feels terrible, but at least your mind has something to focus on--it's not just a huge maelstrom of chaotic emotion. The problem is, you've just found a new mask for the OCD to wear. You're entering the cycle anew. Now that you have a new (old) obsession for your OCD to play with, you've moved on to the next step: reassurance-seeking to bring the anxiety down. I know this hurts terribly, but keeping the cycle going is keeping you stuck. Have you looked any further at any of the self-help books you've gotten? Hoping you have a better today than yesterday!

Totally disagree. I think I understand what you're saying, Xenia--that a brief "groinal" or sexual feeling doesn't mean you actually like a fetish. But I think it's super important to understand that intrusive thoughts, even with groinal sensations, are not reflective of the OCD sufferer's desire. In my opinion, all "groinals" are are a side effect of a rush of anxiety, which sends blood flow to all sorts of places--genitals very much included. Think about it--anxiety is physiological arousal. Feel that rush of anxiety and be looking for sexual feelings and you'll find it. There's a difference between emotions/sensations that are a result of a mental disorder and emotions that are experienced conventionally. You might as well say that because someone with schizophrenia hears voices, any voices we hear normally while going about our lives can't be real.

FR, I've seen you offer some excellent responses to other members. What would you say if this was someone else's post?