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Hello.

Happening again - I’ve done something and feel really guilty.

I had to hold my baby this morning whilst my mum had her breakfast and every time I would put him on my lap I’d get paranoid about where his bottom is and worried about my leg moving ect. 

At one point I asked my mum to get us a toy and she did and in order to use it I had to use both hands so I took the toy and placed my chin on baby’s head to stabilise him but at the same time felt my leg move under his bottom. Then I felt anxious and asked my sister if this is ok. To which she replied he’s sitting ON you it’s fine. I knew it was ocd and was able to dismiss it.

However then when he got bored of the toy, he started to wriggle of my lap and I got anxious and scared. So i moved his feet back together so that he could sit up straight but in the process moved my leg which was under his bottom and as soon as I felt this I felt really uncomfortable. Why did I do that - I should have been more careful - I’m so sorry, baby. Now I’m in bed, upset and feeling really guilty.  I shouldn’t have moved my leg IF I knew I was feeling uncomfortable about it anyway. I’m a bad person. 
 

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Get yourself out of bed, get downstairs and stop trying to run away from this.  You can run but you can't hide Ma.

Over these last few days you've been given a lot of details and explanations as to the cause of what's happening, why it's happening and the things that you need to start to do to make things stop happening.  More Importantly, the things that you are doing that are sustaining this.

The things that you're running away from are feelings of fear and anxiety but armed with knowledge you can learn to ride these fears rather than run.

Have you taken some time to sit down with pen and paper and work out/ identify the compulsions that you're doing, all those behaviours and safety guards that you put in place?  You need to try and do that. 

Come on now, get yourself up and start again

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Get yourself out of bed, get downstairs and stop trying to run away from this.  You can run but you can't hide Ma.

Over these last few days you've been given a lot of details and explanations as to the cause of what's happening, why it's happening and the things that you need to start to do to make things stop happening.  More Importantly, the things that you are doing that are sustaining this.

The things that you're running away from are feelings of fear and anxiety but armed with knowledge you can learn to ride these fears rather than run.

Have you taken some time to sit down with pen and paper and work out/ identify the compulsions that you're doing, all those behaviours and safety guards that you put in place?  You need to try and do that. 

Come on now, get yourself up and start again

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13 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Get yourself out of bed, get downstairs and stop trying to run away from this.  You can run but you can't hide Ma.

Over these last few days you've been given a lot of details and explanations as to the cause of what's happening, why it's happening and the things that you need to start to do to make things stop happening.  More Importantly, the things that you are doing that are sustaining this.

The things that you're running away from are feelings of fear and anxiety but armed with knowledge you can learn to ride these fears rather than run.

Have you taken some time to sit down with pen and paper and work out/ identify the compulsions that you're doing, all those behaviours and safety guards that you put in place?  You need to try and do that. 

Come on now, get yourself up and start again

Hello. 
 

Its just too scary, I am running - you are right and I’m close to hiding too at this rate. As soon as I moved my leg and felt the sensation - the thoughts start coming in telling me I did it in a bad way and I’m a bad person. That scares me so much - I can’t cope with it. And now I’m sitting here thinking but what IF I did it for a bad reason hat were my motives why did I move. I can be confident and say I didn’t enjoy it but why did I move for.

Compulsions I carry out include - asking for re assurance / ruminating / writing about what happened / avoidance . 

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It just feels like it gets worse and worse. For example my mum put baby to sleep and in her absence baby starts to cry and I had to pick him up. I gave him to my husband but then husband had a work meeting and so I had to put him back to sleep. So I’m lying with feet up on sofa and husband gives me baby. I start rocking back and forth by popping my bottom and hips up and down with baby and whilst I’m rocking him - I’m ruminating about why my leg moved before (in above post). I’m trying to justify why it moved and telling myself it doesn’t matter I didn’t have bad intentions so who cares. My head could say don’t move and I move it on purpose so long as my intentions weren’t bad who cares. Anyway then as I’m thinking that - I notice that as I’m rocking him I was moving moving my right leg and then for a second I moved my left  leg which made me feel a different sensation as I felt both my hips and both my legs move and I have a fear of doing this pelvic thrust action because I find it absolutely disgusting - and now that happened and now on top of the leg incident I feel bad about this as well. I didn’t do it on purpose but because I was ruminating about the other incident it’s making me think I did. Please help someone. Why does this happen I don’t get it. I wish I could take a photo to show someone or a video. This is getting really hard for me - I feel like a bad person. 

Edited by Ma29
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35 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

Hello. 
 

Its just too scary, I am running - you are right and I’m close to hiding too at this rate. As soon as I moved my leg and felt the sensation - the thoughts start coming in telling me I did it in a bad way and I’m a bad person. That scares me so much - I can’t cope with it. And now I’m sitting here thinking but what IF I did it for a bad reason hat were my motives why did I move. I can be confident and say I didn’t enjoy it but why did I move for.

Compulsions I carry out include - asking for re assurance / ruminating / writing about what happened / avoidance . 

No, it's not "too" scary....yes it's scary but the more you deal with it, that will improve.  Even putting all the measures in place you do, that doesn't get rid of the fear, does it? So if you're going to feel afraid, do it whilst going through the process of getting better not just being afraid on a daily basis anyway.  How old are you Ma.....am I guessing you're 29?  And you've had OCD since you were 16?  It's time to address this and claim your life back and sadly, you won't do that jumping to the commands of OCD and living a life of complete avoidance.  

It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to say "There, there",  to reassure you, to explain....again and again but it wouldn't help you one jot.  It might make me Mrs Nice Guy......it wouldn't help you get better :( I wish there was an easy way, a magic cure but sadly, it is scary, it will (especially at first) make you very anxious but it's survivable and the benefits are cumulative.  How much do your Husband, Mum and Sister understand about OCD?  They sound very supportive but it's very likely that they are also supporting your OCD when they could help you by offering that support in a slightly different way that helps you to challenge the things you currently run from.

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@Caramooleso I’m holding him and my anxiety starts to rise where I’m noticing all these micro movements happening - leg flinching / groin flinching / notice my breathing and stomach move ect. Then it gets too much and I go to put him down but worried about this as I didn’t want my hand to touch his bottom whilst putting him down (my minds already thinking don’t don’t don’t ) but then I did it because surely I had too as otherwise his body would flop and so when putting him down I really didn’t want too but placed my hand under his lower back / bottom to put him down and now I feel bad for it. When will it stop. I can’t do it anymore. My mind was screaming DONT DONT.
 

My husband and sister are aware of the ocd and know what behaviours to avoid however I guess it gets difficult when they see me in distress. They do remind me it’s my ocd and to leave it and don’t let me talk about things again and again. If I’m having a panic attack they work on breathing exercises with me. 

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You pick your baby up, you hold him (like most parents do) wherever your hand is, you smother him with kisses, you pat his bottom, rub his back or any other natural interaction.  You expect that these horrible doubts and flashes of panic are going to happen and prepare to ride that first flash of panic.....don't be shocked by it, you know it's going to happen......I'm confirming it WILL happen.  You ride it through.  You can say to your family, "this is horrible", it's okay to let them know you're struggling but you resist asking them to reassure you, to ask "Is this okay, am I a bad person?"  You sit with it until that flash of fear passes.  You watch for that constant train of thoughts going on in your head.  You set yourself challenges/goals for every day.  That might be feeding him, cuddling him, being there at bath time.....Don't get through every day by avoidance.  You keep off the sofa, out of bed.....you set yourself tasks to do around the house and do them, even if you don't want to.  Doesn't need to be anything massive but you put some structure into your day, every day.  Is it today you see your therapist?

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Hi Ma, 

I'm really, really sorry that you're in such pain! 

Firstly, I want to say that I believe you are stronger than you think and you will get through this. You are taking care of another human being, a little one, and that already shows how powerful and amazing you are!

3 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

so I’m holding him and my anxiety starts to rise where I’m noticing all these micro movements happening - leg flinching / groin flinching / notice my breathing and stomach move ect. Then it gets too much and I go to put him down but worried about this as I didn’t want my hand to touch his bottom whilst putting him down (my minds already thinking don’t don’t don’t ) but then I did it because surely I had too as otherwise his body would flop and so when putting him down I really didn’t want too but placed my hand under his lower back / bottom to put him down and now I feel bad for it. When will it stop. I can’t do it anymore. My mind was screaming DONT DONT.

This is clearly OCD! You are monitoring every single move you body makes and that's your OCD taking over your life. You are human and you are supposed to breathe, move our hands and legs. You are also taking care of your baby and how are supposed to do that without touching him? Every movement you make is normal but what isn't, is monitoring and analysing them - that's what your OCD wants. 

I truly believe you can do this. You can't let OCD rob you of this so very important part of your life and your baby's life. As everyone else said, you need to take a deep breath, make a drink, and go hold, kiss and play with your baby. I'm sure things will be alright! Please stay strong! ?

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13 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

You pick your baby up, you hold him (like most parents do) wherever your hand is, you smother him with kisses, you pat his bottom, rub his back or any other natural interaction.  You expect that these horrible doubts and flashes of panic are going to happen and prepare to ride that first flash of panic.....don't be shocked by it, you know it's going to happen......I'm confirming it WILL happen.  You ride it through.  You can say to your family, "this is horrible", it's okay to let them know you're struggling but you resist asking them to reassure you, to ask "Is this okay, am I a bad person?"  You sit with it until that flash of fear passes.  You watch for that constant train of thoughts going on in your head.  You set yourself challenges/goals for every day.  That might be feeding him, cuddling him, being there at bath time.....Don't get through every day by avoidance.  You keep off the sofa, out of bed.....you set yourself tasks to do around the house and do them, even if you don't want to.  Doesn't need to be anything massive but you put some structure into your day, every day.  Is it today you see your therapist?

Thanks Caramoole, I will try to bear that in mind. Part of me feels as though as soon as I get anxious about something I should just go ahead and do it - for example if my ocd is telling me not to move my foot or my leg or my arm - I should just move it so long as it’s not going to harm the baby.

You’ve hit the nail on the head when you say that first flash of panic - that’s the hardest part.

I am really trying to do things with the baby, I changed his nappy today (even though I did it with my sister there, I still did it). I will try and do it again later on. 

I’ll try not to ask my family if what I’m doing is OK but will let them know I’m finding it challenging so they can support me without offering re assurance I guess. 
 

I’m seeing my therapist this evening - we’re currently working on appraisal styles. 

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but I’ve made some form of negative association when it comes to micro movements and it’s these that really get to me. It also feels as thought when my mind senses anxiety my body knows just how to respond (for example - at that moment in time I might feel a tingle or a flinch). I can’t really explain the latter - it’s not to say that if I’m anxious that I will hit my husband, I’ll hit him - I’m referring to it in the context of micromovements. I’ve also made some association that ANY movement that can come into contact with baby’s bottom / nappy area is bad. So when I do move my leg  by accident I feel bad for it. However really say if I was scared of moving my leg and then moved it on purpose because I was fed up - it still wouldn’t matter because the bad intent is not there. But for me it’s like you moved your leg whilst baby’s bottom was on it, regardless of intent that’s seen as abusive ! Why is my thinking like this - it’s something I can ask the therapist I guess. We are currently working on appraisal styles. 

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Why is my thinking like this - it’s something I can ask the therapist I guess

No need to really.  It's very straightforward, it's OCD.

I'm a little puzzled about what you mean about appraisal styles.  Do you mean different ways of looking at a situation?

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2 hours ago, Caramoole said:

No need to really.  It's very straightforward, it's OCD.

I'm a little puzzled about what you mean about appraisal styles.  Do you mean different ways of looking at a situation?

But Caramoole, even now I was rocking the baby again and lying down on the sofa and moving my hips back and forth by bopping my bottom up and down and for a split second I notice my hips, they move differently as I feel a different sensation to how I was moving before, then I stop immediately . But now I feel like a bad person because why did my hips move like that - I’m a bad person - they shouldn’t have moved like that - it’s dirty, I don’t like it. And now I can’t remember why they moved like that - it wasn’t isolated I am sure I was rocking them back and forth Anyway. Oh no. I’m back to square one. And now, I’m speaking to husband and rocking at the same time but I notice that my hips move differently again and say to my husband oh no help. It’s like I’m too focused on them - I can’t help it. Why caramoole, why. 
 

it’s all getting beyond ridiculous now as my phone was on my legs and I picked it up with my left hand and felt my left arm slightly may have touched baby’s bottom when I say slightly I mean slightly - if it was anyone else they wouldn’t have even noticed - and now feel bad for it. And in fact I just moved my left arm back to my face and the same thing happened - why is it happening if I don’t want it to happen this is pathetic - I’m so clumsy and should be more careful.

And now I’m trying to watch the apprentice and notice I breath out of my nose (a little like a sniff but outward sniff ) but don’t know why I did that - because it moved my tummy muscles and baby’s resting on my tummy - I need to pay more attention to what I’m doing - I’m silly.

sorry it’s all too much as now I’m picking up on every little sensation going on and my minds intrusive thoughts are coming in ‘you like that feeling’ blah blah - no I don’t - ocd - go away - get away from me you monster. 

in terms of appraisal styles - the worksheet says - 

Types of appraisals styles involved in the persistence of unwanted intrusive thoughts and obsessions such as 

-over estimated threat

- Thought action fusion

-Perfectionism 

-Over importance of thought

-Inflated responsibility, ect 

I know my grammar isn’t great because I’m typing in a rush so sorry about that.

Edited by Ma29
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Everything that you've written above we've talked about over the last few days.  Whether it's your left hand, your right hand, a flicking muscle, hip movement.....we've talked about them all, that they are the the "false" concerns caused by OCD.  I've talked about the fact that they WILL continue to happen, that you will get that flash of fear and panic, to be ready to recognise them.........but then to work very hard at resisting using compulsions to try and control the anxiety.  All of the "Why's?" Can be answered with one reply OCD.

What should you be trying to do when this happens?

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4 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Everything that you've written above we've talked about over the last few days.  Whether it's your left hand, your right hand, a flicking muscle, hip movement.....we've talked about them all, that they are the the "false" concerns caused by OCD.  I've talked about the fact that they WILL continue to happen, that you will get that flash of fear and panic, to be ready to recognise them.........but then to work very hard at resisting using compulsions to try and control the anxiety.  All of the "Why's?" Can be answered with one reply OCD.

What should you be trying to do when this happens?

OK - understood.
I’ve just experienced a really annoying intrusive thought where I picked up on a very subtle sensation near my groin area not sure if something touched it or what but my ocd is screaming  ‘you liked that’ and then it makes me feel as though I liked it but I don’t like it and now I’m thinking but why did I think/feel like I did for a second because I really didn’t and wouldn’t and now I don’t know what to think. I’m scared . What’s going on here? I’ve not had this type before. I feel like a bad person - have you got any advice ? Can ocd play on your feelings ? 

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6 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

OK - understood.
I’ve just experienced a really annoying intrusive thought where I picked up on a very subtle sensation near my groin area not sure if something touched it or what but my ocd is screaming  ‘you liked that’ and then it makes me feel as though I liked it but I don’t like it and now I’m thinking but why did I think/feel like I did for a second because I really didn’t and wouldn’t and now I don’t know what to think. I’m scared . What’s going on here? I’ve not had this type before. I feel like a bad person - have you got any advice ? Can ocd play on your feelings ? 

This is a classic example of taking every individual incident as new thing.  I've just given an explanation about this, you've replied "Okay, understood" and then immediately gone straight on to ask me the same question.  This is a perfect example of why reassurance doesn't work, doesn't help and makes the situation worse and you dependent.  It's over to you niw Ma to try and think through the things we've said and try to make changes to how you currently react

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1 minute ago, Caramoole said:

This is a classic example of taking every individual incident as new thing.  I've just given an explanation about this, you've replied "Okay, understood" and then immediately gone straight on to ask me the same question.  This is a perfect example of why reassurance doesn't work, doesn't help and makes the situation worse and you dependent.  It's over to you niw Ma to try and think through the things we've said and try to make changes to how you currently react

I was asking because I have not dealt with this type of intrusive thought before where it’s affected a feeling for a split second because for a second i thought I did like the sensation or something but was that because I’m doubting myself and my ocd is making me feel like I liked something when it’s the opposite because it knows that I wouldn’t like that and it’s just trying to build up evidence ? I don’t get it. If my intrusive thought wasn’t ‘you liked that’ then I wouldn’t have questioned it - but I questioned it, and if I really liked it I would not have had the intrusive thought or this response to the intrusive thought and would have just liked it and enjoyed it and not thought about or question it ? I’m so confused. This type of intrusive thought and feelings involved is a new one for me so I needed some input that’s all.

 

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37 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

What’s going on here? I’ve not had this type before. I feel like a bad person

Yes you have, Ma. This is exactly the same as all the other twitches, movements and worries.

If you want to get better you have to start to look beyond the immediate sensation and thought response and begin to see the pattern.

You experience a body sensation.

You focus in on it.

You analyse it.

You decide it means something (usually 'I'm a bad person')

You ruminate on it, analyse it a lot more, go round in thinking circles...

And then another involuntary (or voluntary) movement catches your attention and the exact same process starts all over again. :(

Learn to observe yourself as if from outside. Learn the kinds of things which trigger this thinking spiral so you can nip it in the bud each time.

Treat them all the same because they are all the same. Get bored with the sameness instead of worrying the next one is new and different.

It's OCD. Full stop. No further analysis required. No meaning. Not important and not deserving of all this mental energy trying to work it out.

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It's very important you do or you sentence yourself to a life of questioning a zillion different thoughts/feelings/movements every time a new one crops up.  You become 7tterly dependent on someone reassuring you in order to move on.  It's a disastrous way to try and deal with OCD

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23 minutes ago, snowbear said:

Yes you have, Ma. This is exactly the same as all the other twitches, movements and worries.

If you want to get better you have to start to look beyond the immediate sensation and thought response and begin to see the pattern.

You experience a body sensation.

You focus in on it.

You analyse it.

You decide it means something (usually 'I'm a bad person')

You ruminate on it, analyse it a lot more, go round in thinking circles...

And then another involuntary (or voluntary) movement catches your attention and the exact same process starts all over again. :(

Learn to observe yourself as if from outside. Learn the kinds of things which trigger this thinking spiral so you can nip it in the bud each time.

Treat them all the same because they are all the same. Get bored with the sameness instead of worrying the next one is new and different.

It's OCD. Full stop. No further analysis required. No meaning. Not important and not deserving of all this mental energy trying to work it out.

Hello,

Thank you @snowbear - so are you saying an unwanted feeling in ocd can also be treated as an unwanted intrusive thought and one of my irrational fears such as the micro movements I’m over analysing?
 

Edited by Ma29
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8 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

It's very important you do or you sentence yourself to a life of questioning a zillion different thoughts/feelings/movements every time a new one crops up.  You become 7tterly dependent on someone reassuring you in order to move on.  It's a disastrous way to try and deal with OCD

I know Caramoole, you’re right.

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29 minutes ago, Ma29 said:

Hello,

Thank you @snowbear - so are you saying an unwanted feeling in ocd can also be treated as an unwanted intrusive thought and one of my irrational fears such as the micro movements I’m over analysing?
 

 

43 minutes ago, snowbear said:

This is exactly the same as all the other twitches, movements and worries.

 

43 minutes ago, snowbear said:

Treat them all the same because they are all the same

Ma, can you see that you're still seeking reassurance, wanting to be told one more time.......looking to find certainty.  This is a compulsion that you need to be able to identify and then try to resist

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13 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

 

 

 

Ma, can you see that you're still seeking reassurance, wanting to be told one more time.......looking to find certainty.  This is a compulsion that you need to be able to identify and then try to resist

I couldn’t see that and genuinely wasn’t looking for certainty - was a genuine question . I was unsure if snowbear was referring to the feelings - thanks for clarifying. Again, although still ocd I hadn’t had this feeling issue before so was confused how to deal with it..

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Thoughts, feelings, urges, movements, twitches... all the same.

Why? Because it's not the thought/urge/twitch/movement that is important. It's that you respond the same way each time. 

Also, everytrhing feels like a genuine question, and while you're learning we'll try to answer your questions in a way that teaches you about OCD. But you should be aware that the motivation behind the 'genuine' question was seeking reassurance! People often say OCD is sneaky. What they mean is when you're thinking with your OCD head on you can convince yourself black is white if you 'feel' it will bring some relief from the anxiety.

Remember, it's a thinking disorder. You're not thinking rationally when you have your OCD head on, so it's easy to deceive yourself and label a compulsion as 'geunine interest',  however unintentionally.

Trust us on this. We've been around the block many times before! :Old:

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