Eye contact obsession

[ocd_guy]

Hi all,

About 5 years ago, I had been going through a couple of mental issues (anxiety and social anxiety related mostly). At the same time, I was really struggling with who I am and why I felt different than other people. I also wondered where these mental issues came from. In my search for answers I also read some information about autism. I read about the difficulty of eye contact which is typical for people with ass. I started paying attention to how I made eye contact, and guess what: since I was aware of eye contact, it was rather difficult. This situation lasted a couple of weeks (only in certain situations), and then faded away. 

I still had (social) anxiety issues and some ocd related issues which usually lasted a couple of months (obsession with counting the number of steps when I walked a stairs, obsessively having songs in my head, counting words in a sentence, etc.). But overall, I was feeling ok. Untill about 2 years ago, after I broke up with my gf.

At some moment later, I was walking with my mother and I remembered the eye contact obsession. Since then, it has never dissapeared anymore and became only worse. Currently, it stresses me out all day long. I even have it with characters on tv or when watching videos on my phone. Conversations can be really exhausting and stressful. I don't know where to look, eye contact causes very much anxiety and gives me a headache. I tried medication, I have had therapy which focussed on ERP (the shrink thought it was a body focussed obsession). But it did not help. Being tired makes it all even worse. I can't relax, apart from being on my own and reading a book for example. People in the same room cause stress and cause me to be hyperalert on where I am looking at. 

I have had a diagnostic test, but the test didn't indicate autism (which I still have some doubts about). In the past I never ever had any thoughts about eye contact. I made eye contact ( or did not) automatically. However, if I think about my past, I think that maybe I didn't really look at people's eyes (not sure). Sometimes I hear people saying thinks like: that guy/girl has beautiful eyes. I don't think I would ever notice such a thing in the past. But as I said, I'm not sure because I wasn't paying attention in the past. 

Sorry for the long story. Has anybody ever experienced anything like this? Does anybody have advice for how to deal with these issues or what therapy I could try? I still have no idea whether my issues are caused by ocd or ass, or even a combination. I sometimes feel quite desperate to be honest and it is taking its toll on my life... 

Thanks for reading,

Ocd_guy

 

[DRS1]

26 minutes ago, ocd_guy said:

Hi all,

About 5 years ago, I had been going through a couple of mental issues (anxiety and social anxiety related mostly). At the same time, I was really struggling with who I am and why I felt different than other people. I also wondered where these mental issues came from. In my search for answers I also read some information about autism. I read about the difficulty of eye contact which is typical for people with ass. I started paying attention to how I made eye contact, and guess what: since I was aware of eye contact, it was rather difficult. This situation lasted a couple of weeks (only in certain situations), and then faded away. 

I still had (social) anxiety issues and some ocd related issues which usually lasted a couple of months (obsession with counting the number of steps when I walked a stairs, obsessively having songs in my head, counting words in a sentence, etc.). But overall, I was feeling ok. Untill about 2 years ago, after I broke up with my gf.

At some moment later, I was walking with my mother and I remembered the eye contact obsession. Since then, it has never dissapeared anymore and became only worse. Currently, it stresses me out all day long. I even have it with characters on tv or when watching videos on my phone. Conversations can be really exhausting and stressful. I don't know where to look, eye contact causes very much anxiety and gives me a headache. I tried medication, I have had therapy which focussed on ERP (the shrink thought it was a body focussed obsession). But it did not help. Being tired makes it all even worse. I can't relax, apart from being on my own and reading a book for example. People in the same room cause stress and cause me to be hyperalert on where I am looking at. 

I have had a diagnostic test, but the test didn't indicate autism (which I still have some doubts about). In the past I never ever had any thoughts about eye contact. I made eye contact ( or did not) automatically. However, if I think about my past, I think that maybe I didn't really look at people's eyes (not sure). Sometimes I hear people saying thinks like: that guy/girl has beautiful eyes. I don't think I would ever notice such a thing in the past. But as I said, I'm not sure because I wasn't paying attention in the past. 

Sorry for the long story. Has anybody ever experienced anything like this? Does anybody have advice for how to deal with these issues or what therapy I could try? I still have no idea whether my issues are caused by ocd or ass, or even a combination. I sometimes feel quite desperate to be honest and it is taking its toll on my life... 

Thanks for reading,

Ocd_guy

 

Hi,

 

I was very late in being diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and was at the same time during the diagnostic interview for OCD. I hadn't realised all the things that I was or wasn't doing but was very much aware at the very least I had extreme anxiety in social situations. In the second day of the assessment, they had (psychiatrist and psychologist) asked if they knew why I was being asked these questions and revealed that they think I was autistic. The main reasons for me at least was that I was sitting in a strange posture and staring through them rather than at them (something I never realised I did).

 

Eye contact for me is incredibly hard but only with people in social situations. What I would say is, do you find there is an urgency to find this out and work this out? For me, I don't have to try and work out if I have or don't have autistic traits, I notice them when I notice them and I don't get anxiety around the traits themselves. In your situation it sounds like you are ruminating over this and that sounds like a very OCD response to something you don't need to figure out. Why do you need to figure it out?

[ocd_guy]

22 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

Hi,

 

I was very late in being diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and was at the same time during the diagnostic interview for OCD. I hadn't realised all the things that I was or wasn't doing but was very much aware at the very least I had extreme anxiety in social situations. In the second day of the assessment, they had (psychiatrist and psychologist) asked if they knew why I was being asked these questions and revealed that they think I was autistic. The main reasons for me at least was that I was sitting in a strange posture and staring through them rather than at them (something I never realised I did).

 

Eye contact for me is incredibly hard but only with people in social situations. What I would say is, do you find there is an urgency to find this out and work this out? For me, I don't have to try and work out if I have or don't have autistic traits, I notice them when I notice them and I don't get anxiety around the traits themselves. In your situation it sounds like you are ruminating over this and that sounds like a very OCD response to something you don't need to figure out. Why do you need to figure it out?

Thanks for your reply. I only now realise that ASS is the Dutch abbreviation for autism and that it's ASD in English... 

Excellent question you ask and I feel like the "overthinking" is indeed a large contribution to the problem. However, it feels like I cannot stop it. It started two years ago with noticing the problem. At that time, it felt like I had to constantly check how other people make eye contact, to figure out whether I was abnormal or not. So I started paying attention to how people make eye contact and where people look, even in movies. But also people I cross at the street for example. I realised that people just make eye contact, while being difficult for me at that moment, and this even increased the focus on eye contact. This built up to the situation I am in currently, where being around people already makes me anxious. 

I don't really have to find the cause for this problem, but I can't let go of it either. I think, deep down, I still have the feeling that I have to make normal eye contact, otherwise people think I am weird. But also when I try to let go of it and just don't look people into their eyes, there is constant anxiety. As I said, even with movies. I just can't look wherever I want without overthinking.

Accepting that I am who I am and that I look wherever I look sounds like the way to go for me. But I don't know how to get to this point that I just accept it without overthinking. It seems so simple, but in reality is so hard. How did you come to the point of acception? And how do you deal with eye contact in social situations? Do you have a partner? And how do you deal with that? 

In the past, I didn't like being on my own. Now, being on my own is the only situation I can really calm down...

Edited November 26, 2022 by ocd_guy

[DRS1]

2 minutes ago, ocd_guy said:

Thanks for your reply. I only now realise that ASS is the Dutch abbreviation for autism and that it's ASD in English... 

Excellent question you ask and I feel like the "overthinking" is indeed a large contribution to the problem. However, it feels like I cannot stop it. It started two years ago with noticing the problem. At that time, it felt like I had to constantly check how other people make eye contact, to figure out whether I was abnormal or not. So I started paying attention to how people make eye contact and where people look, even in movies. But also people I cross at the street for example. I realises that people just make eye contact, while being difficult for me at that moment, and this even increased the focus on eye contact. This built up to the situation I am in currently, where being around people already makes me anxious. 

I don't really have to find the cause for this problem, but I can't let go of it either. I think, deep down, I still have the feeling that I have to make normal eye contact, otherwise people think I am weird. But also when I try to let go of it and just don't look people into their eyes, there is constant anxiety. As I said, even with movies. I just can't look wherever I want without overthinking.

Accepting that I am who I am and that I look wherever I look sounds like the way to go for me. But I don't know how to get to this point that I just accept it without overthinking. It seems so simple, but in reality is so hard. How did you come to the point of acception? And how do you deal with eye contact in social situations? Do you have a partner? And how do you deal with that? 

In the past, I didn't like being on my own. Now, being on my own is the only situation I can really calm down...

I would take issue with not looking into peoples eyes as abnormal or weird. Being autistic doesn't make anything less or abnormal, it's just a different way of doing things that society unfortunately can struggle to adapt to. You are doing a whole lot of checking here too, all compulsions. This just continues to seem like an OCD problem as you can't let go of it. I don't try to make eye contact if it's too difficult for me. I'll try my best for a period of time but if it feels too overwhelming then I stop and look around the person instead whilst still appearing like I am staring at them.

 

This isn't that far away from one of the (many) issues I have/had dealt with in OCD which was the fear of staring at people's body parts. Not really any different to your situation other than I constantly tried to avoid feeling like I would stare and you are constantly trying to avoid not staring. Same game, different content with OCD. For me I can't do anything about my sensory issues other than what I try to do (masking) to appear like everyone else. I've certainly noticed more autistic traits when I'm alone versus when I'm around others.

 

As for the last part. I do not have a partner. In fact, I've never had a relationship. Never went on a date or anything. There are a few reasons for that. I put that to the background whilst finishing my studies and equally I'm terrified of dating. I want relationships but its incredibly difficult especially when you suck at non-verbal cues. I worry about not knowing what to do in every situation. Also without a relationship, OCD still tries to plague it with intrusive thoughts of somehow getting someone pregnant and not wanting to do that which leaves me feeling like I just don't want a relationship or intimacy ever (even though I know this is just OCD being a nuisance as I value having relationships and intimacy). I'm looking forward to trying to start dating at some point next year but social communication is a great difficulty for me. Eye contact I can mask to an extent, but non-verbal cues is what is the worrying factor for me. 

 

Some autistic people don't want relationships. Some are asexual. Other autistic people do want relationships and are interested in being intimate with a partner. Communication wise NT/ASD relationships require more work as the Neurotypical person needs to understand the challenges of their ASD partner. Every autistic person is different. I fall into the ASD Level 1 side of things which I guess is more towards what they used to refer to as Aspergers but the levels themselves aren't necessarily a scale but a range of different things that we may struggle with.

 

Sorry for the long post here but what it comes down to is. I don't worry about eye contact, it's not something I actively think about as an autistic person although I am considerate to note from time to time when it pops up as an issue. I'm certainly not ruminating or doing compulsions around it though like you are. Put it this way, if I told you don't think of a train and told you to stop thinking of it, what do you think would happen? Do you think that you would just move on and not think of a train or do you think that you may actually then think about over and over again for every time I told you not to think about it?

[ocd_guy]

17 minutes ago, DRS1 said:

I would take issue with not looking into peoples eyes as abnormal or weird. Being autistic doesn't make anything less or abnormal, it's just a different way of doing things that society unfortunately can struggle to adapt to. You are doing a whole lot of checking here too, all compulsions. This just continues to seem like an OCD problem as you can't let go of it. I don't try to make eye contact if it's too difficult for me. I'll try my best for a period of time but if it feels too overwhelming then I stop and look around the person instead whilst still appearing like I am staring at them.

 

This isn't that far away from one of the (many) issues I have/had dealt with in OCD which was the fear of staring at people's body parts. Not really any different to your situation other than I constantly tried to avoid feeling like I would stare and you are constantly trying to avoid not staring. Same game, different content with OCD. For me I can't do anything about my sensory issues other than what I try to do (masking) to appear like everyone else. I've certainly noticed more autistic traits when I'm alone versus when I'm around others.

 

As for the last part. I do not have a partner. In fact, I've never had a relationship. Never went on a date or anything. There are a few reasons for that. I put that to the background whilst finishing my studies and equally I'm terrified of dating. I want relationships but its incredibly difficult especially when you suck at non-verbal cues. I worry about not knowing what to do in every situation. Also without a relationship, OCD still tries to plague it with intrusive thoughts of somehow getting someone pregnant and not wanting to do that which leaves me feeling like I just don't want a relationship or intimacy ever (even though I know this is just OCD being a nuisance as I value having relationships and intimacy). I'm looking forward to trying to start dating at some point next year but social communication is a great difficulty for me. Eye contact I can mask to an extent, but non-verbal cues is what is the worrying factor for me. 

 

Some autistic people don't want relationships. Some are asexual. Other autistic people do want relationships and are interested in being intimate with a partner. Communication wise NT/ASD relationships require more work as the Neurotypical person needs to understand the challenges of their ASD partner. Every autistic person is different. I fall into the ASD Level 1 side of things which I guess is more towards what they used to refer to as Aspergers but the levels themselves aren't necessarily a scale but a range of different things that we may struggle with.

 

Sorry for the long post here but what it comes down to is. I don't worry about eye contact, it's not something I actively think about as an autistic person although I am considerate to note from time to time when it pops up as an issue. I'm certainly not ruminating or doing compulsions around it though like you are. Put it this way, if I told you don't think of a train and told you to stop thinking of it, what do you think would happen? Do you think that you would just move on and not think of a train or do you think that you may actually then think about over and over again for every time I told you not to think about it?

Hi,

Thanks your your reply and for taking time to respond so extensively

I'm sorry to hear about your issues. Must be a real struggle too! Do you live on your own and do you have a day job? 

About the first part, you are right. I am doing a lot of compulsions and checking. If I don't look people in their eyes, it feels like weird and I don't get any non-verbal signals. I wouldn't say that I have (or actually, had) difficulty reading non-verbal cues. However, when I look people in their eyes, I feel overwhelmed and completely stressed out. I feel like I am just staring in their eyes and I don't know when to look away. I just stare, feel overwhelmed, and don't get the content of the conversation. When not looking in their eyes, I don't know where to look and I feel stressed too. I can't focus on the content of the conversation. How is that for you? Can you just look into the surroundings and still focus on the conversation without being distracted by thoughts?

I have had 1 relationship. I think I am (somewhat) asexual. I am at least not the same as most NT people on this aspect for sure. This relationship also gave me some stress and anxiety. In new situations (being among family, friends etc of my partner) I initally had quite a lot of stress. This improved over time. However, social situations in which I felt I had to be the best version of myself to be accepted or to be liked, caused me stress. On the other hand, I also really liked the intamicy and love a relationship can bring. 

I'm not sure whether I have autism. When I have it, I think I would also fall into the Asperger's classification. Although, I don't think they still make a differentiation. I can at least mask my issues very well and nobody has ever made any comment about it. 

About your last part, my shrink typically gave the example of a white bear. If you tell me not to think of a train, obviously I would think about a train. However, over time it would go away, since I don't associate a train with any danger or stress. I can be obsessive over other body functions too. If I now think about it and write this, I am aware of my breathing and blinking for example. Actually, now I type this, I can feel my stress level rising. But I know that it will go away over time. I can be present for a couple of minutes or even a couple of days (in the past). But the eye contact won't go away. It's just too deep rooted I guess, I don't know. Or it is just a combination of ASD and OCD which makes it so difficult to overcome this issue. Really no idea. I also really don't know how to accept these thoughts without overthinking it. Without feeling stressful when I get invasive eye contact thoughts. I feel like my tension level is so high, that just any trigger immediately triggers the ocd and causes a headache. 

[DRS1]

3 minutes ago, ocd_guy said:

Hi,

Thanks your your reply and for taking time to respond so extensively

I'm sorry to hear about your issues. Must be a real struggle too! Do you live on your own and do you have a day job? 

About the first part, you are right. I am doing a lot of compulsions and checking. If I don't look people in their eyes, it feels like weird and I don't get any non-verbal signals. I wouldn't say that I have (or actually, had) difficulty reading non-verbal cues. However, when I look people in their eyes, I feel overwhelmed and completely stressed out. I feel like I am just staring in their eyes and I don't know when to look away. I just stare, feel overwhelmed, and don't get the content of the conversation. When not looking in their eyes, I don't know where to look and I feel stressed too. I can't focus on the content of the conversation. How is that for you? Can you just look into the surroundings and still focus on the conversation without being distracted by thoughts?

I have had 1 relationship. I think I am (somewhat) asexual. I am at least not the same as most NT people on this aspect for sure. This relationship also gave me some stress and anxiety. In new situations (being among family, friends etc of my partner) I initally had quite a lot of stress. This improved over time. However, social situations in which I felt I had to be the best version of myself to be accepted or to be liked, caused me stress. On the other hand, I also really liked the intamicy and love a relationship can bring. 

I'm not sure whether I have autism. When I have it, I think I would also fall into the Asperger's classification. Although, I don't think they still make a differentiation. I can at least mask my issues very well and nobody has ever made any comment about it. 

About your last part, my shrink typically gave the example of a white bear. If you tell me not to think of a train, obviously I would think about a train. However, over time it would go away, since I don't associate a train with any danger or stress. I can be obsessive over other body functions too. If I now think about it and write this, I am aware of my breathing and blinking for example. Actually, now I type this, I can feel my stress level rising. But I know that it will go away over time. I can be present for a couple of minutes or even a couple of days (in the past). But the eye contact won't go away. It's just too deep rooted I guess, I don't know. Or it is just a combination of ASD and OCD which makes it so difficult to overcome this issue. Really no idea. I also really don't know how to accept these thoughts without overthinking it. Without feeling stressful when I get invasive eye contact thoughts. I feel like my tension level is so high, that just any trigger immediately triggers the ocd and causes a headache. 

I live with my family but I do indeed have a good job that basically plays to some of the benefits of being autistic. I can focus on the conversation to an extent but it depends on the volume of other surroundings in the process. A lot of the time I will kind of zone out as I'm thinking of the next thing I want to say which can seem rude but it's because I want to prepare to continue the conversation and for me knowing when to start and stop a conversation is really not that obvious.

 

Thing is too, to be clear, being asexual isn't a ASD thing. It's just statistically more common in the ASD population. So is the number of LGBT people. I'm heterosexual so I don't really fit into those statistics as do a lot a lot of other people with autism. These are all statistics, they don't really mean anything significant though. There is way more to unpack/learn about ASD and sexuality and relationships than I could ever list on here without making an almighty megathread and it's really unnecessary for this context but its just to say sexuality is complex anyways and for autistic people navigating sexuality and relationships is difficult and then couple that with OCD and you have a not very good time.

 

They no longer use aspergers as a term and have grouped it all under Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) or as some people who are autistic refer to it as Autism Spectrum Condition (ASC) as it's not really a disorder like OCD is. OCD is flat out a big problem. Being autistic comes with its difficulties primarily socially for me but also has its benefits. 

 

Being autistic and having OCD is quite challenging at times. Aspects of being autistic feed into OCD and sometimes the line can be blurred as to whether something falls into being an autistic related thing or an OCD related thing. It wouldn't surprise me that OCD would go after social challenges for autistic people since that's something we want to do well at. At the end of the day, if you feel like you may need to go through the assessment process then it could be worth doing it again just to get a second opinion. In the UK, I was given the AQ and when initially filling it out was barely on the spectrum. When I gave the form back though, the psychiatrist and psychologist thought that maybe some of it wasn't quite right and they were correct. I just hadn't really understood the questions correctly. I also wasn't aware of anything I had been doing that was autistic behaviour at that point.

 

There is a fine line here and I honestly think that rather than attempt to figure this out any further what could be of more use is to get in touch with people who can medically look at this (i.e. psychologists, psychiatrists). I know I got lucky with how good the psychologist and psychiatrist that diagnosed and treated me were and how unlikely it is to have ASD picked up on for an OCD diagnosis at adulthood but there are hopefully others elsewhere in the world (and also specifically hopefully where you are in the Netherlands) that are able to pick up on both and at least let you know if you are or are not autistic.

 

If you aren't, and OCD still continues to question it, you know at that point it's OCD. 

 

 

 

[ocd_guy]

1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

I live with my family but I do indeed have a good job that basically plays to some of the benefits of being autistic. I can focus on the conversation to an extent but it depends on the volume of other surroundings in the process. A lot of the time I will kind of zone out as I'm thinking of the next thing I want to say which can seem rude but it's because I want to prepare to continue the conversation and for me knowing when to start and stop a conversation is really not that obvious.

 

Thing is too, to be clear, being asexual isn't a ASD thing. It's just statistically more common in the ASD population. So is the number of LGBT people. I'm heterosexual so I don't really fit into those statistics as do a lot a lot of other people with autism. These are all statistics, they don't really mean anything significant though. There is way more to unpack/learn about ASD and sexuality and relationships than I could ever list on here without making an almighty megathread and it's really unnecessary for this context but its just to say sexuality is complex anyways and for autistic people navigating sexuality and relationships is difficult and then couple that with OCD and you have a not very good time.

 

They no longer use aspergers as a term and have grouped it all under Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) or as some people who are autistic refer to it as Autism Spectrum Condition (ASC) as it's not really a disorder like OCD is. OCD is flat out a big problem. Being autistic comes with its difficulties primarily socially for me but also has its benefits. 

 

Being autistic and having OCD is quite challenging at times. Aspects of being autistic feed into OCD and sometimes the line can be blurred as to whether something falls into being an autistic related thing or an OCD related thing. It wouldn't surprise me that OCD would go after social challenges for autistic people since that's something we want to do well at. At the end of the day, if you feel like you may need to go through the assessment process then it could be worth doing it again just to get a second opinion. In the UK, I was given the AQ and when initially filling it out was barely on the spectrum. When I gave the form back though, the psychiatrist and psychologist thought that maybe some of it wasn't quite right and they were correct. I just hadn't really understood the questions correctly. I also wasn't aware of anything I had been doing that was autistic behaviour at that point.

 

There is a fine line here and I honestly think that rather than attempt to figure this out any further what could be of more use is to get in touch with people who can medically look at this (i.e. psychologists, psychiatrists). I know I got lucky with how good the psychologist and psychiatrist that diagnosed and treated me were and how unlikely it is to have ASD picked up on for an OCD diagnosis at adulthood but there are hopefully others elsewhere in the world (and also specifically hopefully where you are in the Netherlands) that are able to pick up on both and at least let you know if you are or are not autistic.

 

If you aren't, and OCD still continues to question it, you know at that point it's OCD. 

 

 

 

Hi DSR1,

I think you touch on some really relevant aspects here. First, good to hear that you found the help you needed and that the psychologists did notice you had ASD. I think it's still often misdiagnosed. Especially for women. How is it for you to have OCD and ASD? What are your main struggles and how do you cope with these? How do you look towards the future? Maybe a somewhat bold question: how old are you and in what sector are you working? I am 26 years old myself and work as a scientist/physicist. In my job, I have to discuss a lot with collegues. I don't have an office, but we work in large rooms with about 40 people in 1 room. So, that is quite noise and also doesn't really help with my OCD unfortunately. I often judge myself and feel inferior to other people, seeing them having fun with each other, which all seems so eays and natural for them. The future scares me to be honest. 

Sexuality isn't something which really bothers me now. If I could go back to the situation as it was: being relaxed while watching tv and having a conversation without feeling tension, that would mean the world to me. 

I think you're right about the thin line between certain mental issues. A couple of years ago, I was treated for anxiety. Then, about 2.5 years ago, I asked my GP for referral to a GGZ institute which also does autism diagnostics, since I still had anxiety issues and I felt like, there must be an explanation. I had to fill out a large amount of questionairies, had to do some tasks and my mother was involved in the whole process. The outcome was that I have some characteristics which are typical for ASD. But not enough to diagnose ASD. 

My psychiatrist thought it would be OCD. And to some extent, I agree. I mean, that I even have this issue with watching tv is more related to OCD than to ASD I guess. But as I said, it could also be both. So, I reached out to an institute which is (as they say) specialised in treating OCD. But this also didn't help. So, I have no idea how to proceed now. A second opinion is one of the options I am also still considering. 

But I don't know how much it would help. I mean, ASD is not a term that describes the cause. ASD can still not be demonstrated objectively, based on someones brain function for example. It is merely used to describe certain behaviour. I can have eye contact issues, without having autism. The opposite is also well possible: having ASD, but no eye contact issues. So, I don't know if ASD would help to find a way to deal with the anxiety I experience. But maybe it could help to accept, or the ASD psychologists could help to accept, the difficulties I encounter with eye contact. 

Thanks for your replies btw, I appreciate it

[DRS1]

1 hour ago, ocd_guy said:

Hi DSR1,

I think you touch on some really relevant aspects here. First, good to hear that you found the help you needed and that the psychologists did notice you had ASD. I think it's still often misdiagnosed. Especially for women. How is it for you to have OCD and ASD? What are your main struggles and how do you cope with these? How do you look towards the future? Maybe a somewhat bold question: how old are you and in what sector are you working? I am 26 years old myself and work as a scientist/physicist. In my job, I have to discuss a lot with collegues. I don't have an office, but we work in large rooms with about 40 people in 1 room. So, that is quite noise and also doesn't really help with my OCD unfortunately. I often judge myself and feel inferior to other people, seeing them having fun with each other, which all seems so eays and natural for them. The future scares me to be honest. 

Sexuality isn't something which really bothers me now. If I could go back to the situation as it was: being relaxed while watching tv and having a conversation without feeling tension, that would mean the world to me. 

I think you're right about the thin line between certain mental issues. A couple of years ago, I was treated for anxiety. Then, about 2.5 years ago, I asked my GP for referral to a GGZ institute which also does autism diagnostics, since I still had anxiety issues and I felt like, there must be an explanation. I had to fill out a large amount of questionairies, had to do some tasks and my mother was involved in the whole process. The outcome was that I have some characteristics which are typical for ASD. But not enough to diagnose ASD. 

My psychiatrist thought it would be OCD. And to some extent, I agree. I mean, that I even have this issue with watching tv is more related to OCD than to ASD I guess. But as I said, it could also be both. So, I reached out to an institute which is (as they say) specialised in treating OCD. But this also didn't help. So, I have no idea how to proceed now. A second opinion is one of the options I am also still considering. 

But I don't know how much it would help. I mean, ASD is not a term that describes the cause. ASD can still not be demonstrated objectively, based on someones brain function for example. It is merely used to describe certain behaviour. I can have eye contact issues, without having autism. The opposite is also well possible: having ASD, but no eye contact issues. So, I don't know if ASD would help to find a way to deal with the anxiety I experience. But maybe it could help to accept, or the ASD psychologists could help to accept, the difficulties I encounter with eye contact. 

Thanks for your replies btw, I appreciate it

The only main issues I have is around being pre-disposed to black and white thinking which feeds into OCD, deciphering which are which between sensory issues and just right/perfectionism issues in OCD (that one is a challenge and a half) and I think that's mainly it. To be honest the black and white thinking I just have to be aware of. The sensory issues/just right/perfectionism stuff is still a struggle now. My issue is mainly with sweat. At this point I'm no longer sure whether or not it is a sensory issue with the sensation of sweat or a perfectionistic/just right compulsion to basically rid myself of sweat. I live day to day at this point

 

I'm a software developer which works out for most autistic people as STEM has the largest amount of autistic people job wise.

[Angst]

Hi OCD guy

Did you have problems with eye contact before you started paying attention to it? Anxiety is generated when we pay particular attention to a thing.

Social interaction involves a lot of things including gaze. It is best not to monitor your own social performance.

I remember my first social psychology lecture where we were told we could be enmeshed in monitoring our behaviour or just go ahead and interact and leave the analysis to the lab and recordings.

The more you interact the less conscious you will be. Go with the flow of the interaction. Don’t monitor.

[ocd_guy]

2 hours ago, Angst said:

Hi OCD guy

Did you have problems with eye contact before you started paying attention to it? Anxiety is generated when we pay particular attention to a thing.

Social interaction involves a lot of things including gaze. It is best not to monitor your own social performance.

I remember my first social psychology lecture where we were told we could be enmeshed in monitoring our behaviour or just go ahead and interact and leave the analysis to the lab and recordings.

The more you interact the less conscious you will be. Go with the flow of the interaction. Don’t monitor.

Hi Angst,

Thanks for your reply. Based on your name, I suppose you're a Dutchie as well? Do you have OCD problems or are you a psychologist?

I didn't have eye contact issues before I started paying attention. I never was aware of it, not even for a second. I don't know how I did it to be honest. I just did it naturally, or at least, in a way that felt natural for me. 

You're right: the problem is being conscious and monitoring my behaviour, more or less. But I don't know how to stop this. You say: the more you interact, the less conscious you will be. What do you mean exactly? How can I interact, connect with people, take part of conversations, while leaving out the analysing and monitoring of my own behaviour. It's quite a struggle. 

Monitoring in OCD can be about any body function. It can also be about breathing as an example. I can have this from time to time as well, but much less disturbing and this will fade away over time. Which brings me to the question: why does the eye contact anxiety not fade away? There must be a more deep rooted cause, which keeps the anxiety present. Idk if that makes sense. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by ocd_guy

[ocd_guy]

Maybe a short addition:

In the past, I never was aware of how I did or did not make and maintain eye contact. Maybe I didn't make "normal" eye contact in the past as well. Maybe I just gazed in the direction of somebody's face, which gave me enough cues to read somebody's expressions. But I don't know, bc I didn't pay attention. 

I do know, that I would never have made a comment about somebody's eyes. Sometimes, I hear people say: ooh, he/she has beautiful eyes. I never made such a comment, I'm pretty sure. If you had asked me 2.5 years ago about the eye color of my friends, or familly members, I couldn't tell you. From my parents and brother, I knew. But other people, no idea. I don't know if this tells me that I didn't make "normal" eye contact in the last as well.

My psychologist told me that she also couldn't tell me the eye color of her parents. Just because she doesn't pay attention. Maybe I just don't remember, because I did not pay attention in the past as well. 

Idk if I should see this as an indication that in the last I also didn't make "normal" eye contact. Or if this doesn't tell me anything. 

[Angst]

I don’t remember eye colour as your psychologist. It is incredible how fast the mind works when interacting. We listen and respond in micro seconds using our mind and manipulating parts of our oral body and breathing to produce speech. It is too much to monitor in the here and now and is subconscious. In general, people do not monitor how they produce an interaction. We our socialised or conditioned from birth. There are social rules about eye contact. In some societies people deemed to be superior should not be looked at directly in the eye

[ocd_guy]

51 minutes ago, Angst said:

I don’t remember eye colour as your psychologist. It is incredible how fast the mind works when interacting. We listen and respond in micro seconds using our mind and manipulating parts of our oral body and breathing to produce speech. It is too much to monitor in the here and now and is subconscious. In general, people do not monitor how they produce an interaction. We our socialised or conditioned from birth. There are social rules about eye contact. In some societies people deemed to be superior should not be looked at directly in the eye

Indeed, that's how it should be. And how it was it the past. So this leaves me at... having absolutely no idea why I can't get over this issue. Having no idea what truggers it and how to get over it. It feels like I'm out of options to recover from this issue. I tried meds, I tried OCD treatment and anxiety treatment. All based on CBT. All of this didn't help. Time, only time, helps somewhat. I get used to the anxiety and I accept it more than I did in the beginning. But workdays are exhausting. Social interaction is exhausting and very stressful. Life is just so much more difficult and less satisfying than it was before. Workdays feel more like surviving than like living and my mind is alert and working at 200% all the time. I'm afraid that eventually, this will result in a burn-out or depression. Although I can at the moment still handle the situation pretty well. 

I have no idea if there are people with this same type of ocd. I mean, I know that there are people with sensorimotor OCD. Although, being not very common. I have read a couple of topics from people with gazing/staring/peripheral vision issues. But most of these topics are like 10 years old. Leaves me at: the specific issue I have is rather rare I think. According to the internet, sensorimotor OCD can be treated fairly well. Well, I have no idea what to do. What kind of help should I seek for? Should I just go on with my life and accept that this will be my life? Is there a specific type of therapy for these kind of issues? Adjust my life to live with this mental condition? Idk what to do to be honest.

I was hoping anybody here has maybe gone through similar (sensorimotor like) issues, has questions or comments which bring me closer to understanding the cause of my issue or have advice for what to do. Thankss for reading btw. 

[Angst]

Good that you can handle the situation well. Could it be that you have become too self conscious about your behaviour? Remember that in the past it wasn’t a problem. You say it is a problem at the workplace. So is it not a problem in other social contexts?

[ocd_guy]

48 minutes ago, Angst said:

Good that you can handle the situation well. Could it be that you have become too self conscious about your behaviour? Remember that in the past it wasn’t a problem. You say it is a problem at the workplace. So is it not a problem in other social contexts?

Hmm ok, I shouldn't have said "pretty well". I can still handle the situation. But it's exhausting.

Hahah yess, I absolutely have. Idk if ASD also plays a role, but the self-consciousness and the monitoring of my own behaviour and thoughts is the worst and feeds the OCD. This is the main problem I think. 

It is a problem in all social situations. One time more than another time. One-on-one conversations are absolutely the worst. 1 conversation of 30 minutes, and my head feels like exploding. Group conversations are difficult in the beginning (high tension level, hyperfocus, stressed). However, the tension usually reduces somewhat during the meeting/social event. Also events with many sensort stimuli are difficult. Since the surroundings keep changing, my brain keeps hyperalert.

It is a problem everywhere where faces appear. On tv, in a magazine, during crossing people on the street, during social events. You name it. Even if a person would cover their eyes, my brain would feel anxiety/tension when looking at that person.