Saffron37

Handy, I don't think refraining from watching porn would solve the problem. For one thing, it's avoidance, and that just reinforces the fear. For another, the OCD would almost certainly refocus on something new...because again, it's not about the content of the obsession, it's about having a disorder that generates those obsessions. TriangleFace, I'm really glad you're realizing that OCD is what's going on here! That means you can start to treat it. How do you feel about going to a therapist?

It's okay, TriangleFace2. <hug> You're not a child or acting childish. The reassurance-seeking is a huge problem for almost every OCD sufferer, it seems. Myself included! I know you're really scared of this fetish, but think about all the other worries you've had in the past months. Are you actively afraid of the fatal condition you feared you had a little while ago? No? Why do you think that is? Answer: because your anxiety refocused on a new subject. OCD is never really about the content of the obsession. While in the moment it can feel impossible to believe, the power and magnitude of the anxiety is because it's OCD, not because the actual danger presented by the obsession is so extreme. That's what OCD does: radically exaggerates and magnifies fearful ideas. For me, my OCD has revolved around fears of different diseases. Could I theoretically be developing one of those diseases as I type? Sure. But my OCD doesn't say that, my OCD says "OH NO YOU'RE GOING TO GET SICK AND DIE AND EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE AHHHH", leading me to act out compulsions as if I were about be struck from above by stage 4 cancer! Similarly, in your case this fetish may very well be unappetizing or repellent to you, but the OCD isn't politely noting that, it's yelling "THIS IS THE WORST AND MOST DISGUSTING THING IMAGINABLE AND IF YOU LIKE IT, YOUR LIFE IS OVER." Complete distortion, one so extreme that from the outside it looks laughable. Are you getting any professional help for your OCD?

Hi Busy Fool, As you said, you know you're being silly. While the goal is to ultimately pay no attention to intrusive "what-ifs," I find it helpful for myself to initially challenge those scary thoughts with logic and reason. Can you come up with some reasons that your fear is not realistic?

I'm so sorry you're suffering so much, Mbkk. Generally speaking, reassurance is not a good thing to offer for sufferers of OCD, but as this is your first post, I'm going to offer a little bit of it. Please remember that you know that this is OCD. You know that fears of being a pedophile or sexual abuse are one of the most common, ordinary ways that OCD manifests. You are so not alone. And I hope you also know that because this is a mental disorder, a misfiring of the brain, the thoughts mean absolutely nothing about you whatsoever. In fact, as OCD tends to target the things we care most about, the fact that your OCD is targeting fears of hurting your children just proves the depth and commitment of your love for them. As you said, they are your pride and joy. OCD creates the worst, most nightmarish scenarios one can imagine, and for your brain, that means your daughters being hurt by you in a way you find particularly awful and disgusting. It's very similar to a devoutly religious person being tormented by blasphemous, uncontrollable thoughts, or a person who strongly identifies with being straight being tortured by intrusive, graphic images of them having gay sex. All are super common forms of OCD. Unfortunately, there's no way to give yourself 100% absolute certainty that you didn't touch your daughter in your sleep, because you can't time-travel back to watch yourself (and even if you could and saw that nothing happened, your OCD would just find something new to fixate on). But I believe that deep inside, beneath the OCD, you know that it didn't really happen. The emotions are so painful that they're driving you to consider objectively illogical ideas like going to the police, but I believe that rationally you know the truth. I'd recommend two really excellent books, Brain Lock by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz, and Break Free from OCD, by a number of docs. They will really help you understand where these thoughts and feelings are coming from neurologically, and understanding that those things aren't a real part of you is an enormous first step to getting better. Then, CBT/ERP treatment can effectively help you to change. Best of luck!!

I'm so sorry you're in so much pain, Nikola. That sounds absolutely horrible. But I hear some really good news--the really good news I hear is that you haven't tried ERP! And ERP, to be frank, works. So you haven't given the very best treatment a go, yet--that's tons of reasons to be hopeful. I think you'd probably also benefit a whole lot from a book called Brain Lock, which really walks you through how specific parts of the brain misfire to cause OCD symptoms, how ERP works in a very concrete way, etc. That makes ERP a whole lot easier because resisting obsessions and compulsions is way easier when you have a really specific understanding of where those things are coming from.

Hi Nikola! I'm sorry to hear you're struggling, that sounds really difficult and unpleasant. Are you getting any help for your OCD at present?

You go, girl! I'm proud of you! The hardest part 100% is getting up and going--once the momentum is on, it's much easier. Please be super kind to yourself today.

I love that analogy! Yes, just like thunderclaps! One suggestion: list all of your compulsions to get a sense of just how many there might be. For example, rumination (thinking obsessively, in loops) is a very common compulsion, but because it's all inside your head it can be tougher to identify as a compulsion than, say, something obviously behavioral like Googling images. Want to make that list and post it here, maybe? I'd be happy to talk it through with you! OCD is a tricky enemy--you want to get a sense of every weapon it's got.

Cora, have you looked into Brain Lock yet? It has so many answers. I’m so sorry you’re suffering, but you have to begin to take conscious action to help yourself. This is not going to go away by hoping, wishing or waiting.

My pleasure! It's always so much easier to see from the outside, right? You're doing amazing work and should be so proud of yourself. So remember, when you encounter an obsession, your OCD is going to want you to perform a compulsion that it convinces you, against all logic, will relieve your anxiety and prevent something bad from happening. This is your OCD lying to you. Luckily, we can override that lie by resisting the compulsions, just as you are doing by not googling images of violence to relieve your anxiety. The more you resist, the more your brain will understand that the fixations and compulsions of OCD are meaningless and disregard them, leading to a permanent reduction in your anxiety. This is how you get better. You can do it!!

Hey Alyssa, my pleasure! Believe it or not, there's no contradiction--for you, googling those images online is definitely a compulsion. Here's how these things seem to work: Trigger (in your case, intrusive thought about violence) -> unpleasant, painful feelings (disgust, distress) --> desire to get rid of those feelings through compulsive behavior -> performing compulsive behavior (in your case, Googling violent images to "face your fears") -> temporary relief of anxiety, feeling better --> feelings of guilt, disgust, shame, fear, etc at having performed the compulsive behavior --> new trigger, and the cycle starts all over again, only just a little bit stronger. So for you, I'd advise thinking about it like this: does thinking about Googling these images make you feel scared, anxious, upset? If that answer was yes, then I'd say it would be a good exposure. However, not doing the Googling is what makes you distressed, because you find relief in the compulsion. So in order to help yourself, you need to brave the discomfort of the awful distress you feel when refraining from your compulsion. Over time, with continued resistance, it'll get easier and easier.

Hi Alyssa! Searching for graphic images is definitely a compulsion. If seeing the graphic images was a trigger and increased your anxiety, looking at them could be a part of ERP; however, as you noted, viewing the images doing so makes you feel numb and temporarily relieved, so providing some respite from the obsession. This makes it a straightforward compulsive behavior. I’m guessing part of you wants to believe that it’s not a compulsion so you can engage in it for relief (nothing to be ashamed of, it’s the most natural thing to crave relief). Do your intrusive thoughts have any triggers? Specific situations, contexts, etc?

Cora, in Brain Lock, the author makes an interesting point about how both Parkinson's disease and OCD are caused by disturbances and misfiring of a part of the brain called the striatum. The difference is that the disturbance in Parkinson's causes uncontrollable movements (hence why a key symptom of Parkinson's is trembling muscles), and OCD caused uncontrollable thoughts. The other big different between the two is that Parkinson's currently can't be cured, but OCD is largely controllable with insight and CBT/ERP therapy. However, just like you wouldn't look at a Parkinson's patient and say "stop that trembling right now!", a person with OCD can't just expect to order their brain to "stop debating and looking for other answers." You need to understand how to make sense of all the things happening in your mind, and for that you need information. For that information, you need this book. By the way, I am very much not underestimating how hard it is. I have pretty high confidence that my intrusive thoughts and compulsive urges are just OCD, and yet it is SUPER hard not to give into them anyway. I'm definitely still struggling, but that's the point--we have to try to get better. We have to struggle against these urges, we have to try. It's hard enough doing so equipped with knowledge and insight that the obsessions and compulsions are just OCD--if I didn't have that understanding, I'd be entirely lost. Please give yourself the tools you need to get better.

Hi Samantha! I'm based in the US too. I really like your painting! How was the ERP program? And Handy, psychotic and mood disorders are a pretty different beast from OCD! Not really one-size-fits-all.

Good for you Busy Fool!! Your getting up and going inspires me to do the same!

Thank you so much! My insight is good, but I've long struggled with learned helplessness (largely due to anxiety-fueled low self esteem, I suspect), so it's been a bit of a journey getting myself to a point where I trust myself to make change. I've made progress, however, and am feeling like now it's just a matter of time and will until I beat this thing. I actually just started reading Brain Lock myself, which I've already found super helpful in reframing my thoughts and properly attributing them to OCD. That's why I so urge Cora to read it--for me, at least (and I suspect for Cora as well), insight is everything in fighting this. How are you doing, Caramoole?

Thanks Caramoole, I really appreciate it! I've been dealing with health-related OCD for about a year. I've always been quite anxious, but didn't develop these symptoms until the double whammy of my Dad passing and COVID (I was in NYC in March 2020...it wasn't pretty). Reading through these threads (especially ones NOT about health anxiety) has been super helpful, and I've learned a whole lot from you, Caramoole. Please don't doubt your words are helping others even when you're not even aware of it!

Thanks for the reminder Caramoole. It's really tough to walk the line, especially when one wants to help so much! Cora, the last piece of reassurance I'll offer you is that discuccsant is completely right in what they say about arousal. It's a conditioned response--through your obsessing and ruminating, you've taught your brain to associated "sex" and "sexually taboo topics". Just like someone with a phobia of dogs conditions their brain to respond with terror at the sight, sound, or even thought of a dog, your brain reflexively (remember how you said that the arousal was like a reflex as soon as you saw the two words together?) sends an arousal response because of the association. It doesn't mean you like the topic; it's as simple as Pavlov's dogs salivating when they hear a bell. And yes, arousal feels nice, and so it's totally normal to instinctively want it to continue. But look, it's clear that you need to understand OCD better in order to have the motivation you need to resist this. Please read Brain Lock. It will give you answers. Best of luck.

Cora, I think you would really benefit from a book called Brain Lock, by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz! It's a fantastic book that explains exactly how and why, neurologically, OCD symptoms happen. It helps you to see your symptoms of OCD as exactly what they are--symptoms of OCD. The book even shows brain scans before and after OCD sufferers undergo treatment, and the amazing changes. Seriously, please read this book. You're suffering and it's horrible and you don't have to be. Please read it. You have nothing to lose.

30 seconds...maybe a minute? I'm going to guess you were barely even taking in the words you were reading, given how hyperfocused you were on your body. Think about that. How much of the details of the story were you actually taking in, versus knowing that you were reading about a taboo subject and feeling anxious because of that? And a minute isn't a very long time at all. This is something really important to understand, so please read carefully: the anxiety response can mimic the feeling of arousal. When the body is anxious, excited or in some way stressed, it floods the body with hormones and neurotransmitters like adrenalin and epinephrine. Your heart races, blood pumps to your extremities--yes, including between your legs. One of the most upsetting physical sensations I've ever experienced is when my Dad was dying from cancer, and a handful of times (when I was at my most anxious and bereft) I felt a pleasurable, tingling sensation in my genitals. It horrified me until I realized that my nervous system was hyperactive to the point of stimulating that part of the body, and it had nothing to do with my thoughts and feelings. Because my OCD doesn't revolve around fears of sexual deviance, I was able to dismiss the sensation very quickly and not let it bother me again. So now, think about your situation. You get extraordinarily intense anxiety when you encounter triggers like the articles you read. This stimulates your body (in a non-sexual manner) in many different ways. Next, consider that your obsession revolves around sexual taboos--you've conditioned your brain to pay a ton of attention to subjects you find sexually taboo, and to obsessively wonder whether you are aroused by them. Your part of your brain that controls arousal doesn't know that it's OCD, all it thinks is "huh, I guess these subjects have something to do with sex." It's not real desire. Finally, think about the nature of compulsions. A compulsion, in and of itself, is simply a behavior that you feel like you want to do, you have to do. Just like someone who is not suicidal feeling the compulsion to crash their car--which happens a whole lot in OCD! Or me returning again and again to my breast, despite how much it hurt. Now, put it all together. Massive anxiety response that can mimic arousal + obsessions that condition your brain to see sexually taboo topics as highly important + compulsions = your situation.

Also, I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. You said it took you "several seconds" to realize what you had done when you kept reading the stories about child sex abuse. How long did you actually experience this "arousal" before you "realized what you had done"?

By the way Cora, I know what you're thinking, most likely: "Saffron doesn't get it! I wanted to keep thinking about that disgusting thing, and I kept doing it! If I could have stopped myself but didn't, that must mean that it's not OCD, it's just me. I must be a monster!" Nope! I remember how I felt when I was digging in my breast: "God, I must be such a freak. Who does this? Who leaves welts on their body? I know I could stop if I wanted to, so it must mean I don't want to. That must mean I'm just messed up beyond repair!" But I'm not a freak or broken or whatever other mean words I hurled at myself. I'm a person who was experiencing a compulsion and giving into it because I didn't know what else to do. You're not a sexual deviant or a monster. You're a person in the grip of a compulsion who is giving in to it because you don't know what else to do.

You're definitely checking, Cora. You're checking to see if you're feeling any arousal. Feeling like you want it to continue is the very definition of a compulsion--just like I completely felt that I wanted to keep digging into my breast, despite the fact that it was so painful. Because my compulsive behavior involved such an explicitly unpleasant sensation (pain), it's easier for me to see the compulsion for what it is. That's literally the only difference between us.

Cora, what you're experiencing is super common and one of the most vexing parts of OCD for a lot of people: that morally abhorrent (to the OCD sufferer) compulsions FEEL so genuine and desired. They're not. At all. Here's why. Two things are going on: 1) You're experiencing a compulsion, and mistaking the compelling feeling for genuine desire and 2) You've conditioned your brain to associate morally repugnant (to you, the sufferer) topics with sex, leading to automatic, involuntary feelings of arousal. This is also not real desire and does not mean you genuinely want anything at all to do with such scenarios. I'll break each point down. Point 1: My OCD has revolved around an ever-changing carousel of health anxiety. I remember spending an entire day alone in my apartment, entirely neglecting what I had planned for the day, desperately and compulsively feeling my right breast for lumps. I dug so hard into my breast that I left welts that were visible months later. I hated doing it. It hurt so much. I so badly wanted to stop. But at the same exact time, the only thing I could think about doing was continuing. I needed to, I couldn't restrain myself. I went back again and again. I wanted to even as I hated every moment. That is the cruel nature of a compulsion. Your compulsions happen to revolve around the anxiety that you're a sexual deviant, just as mine revolved around the obsessive fear that I had a deadly disease. It's doesn't matter: compulsions are all the same. They feel utterly and terrifyingly real to the sufferer, no matter what they surround. But, this is the important point: They are not in any way representative of who we really are. They feel real because "feeling real but being false" is the essence of OCD. You clearly value family and acting in a morally correct way, so your OCD targets that which you care most about. My Dad died, which shattered any sense of invulnerability I might have felt otherwise, and so my OCD targeted this new, huge fear. That's why parents who love their kids more than life have intrusive thoughts of hurting them, or people who highly identify as straight fear that they are gay. OCD is attracted most to the things we care about the deepest. If you find this helpful, I'll explain point number 2.