Confused as to what the exposure should be here

[saddaniels]

On October 13, 2016 at 15:45, snowbear said:

Hi saddaniels, 

Whenever anyone finds themselves going round in circles it's usually because they've got so deeply embroiled in the detailed content of their thoughts they can't see there's a simple pattern behind their seemingly complex behaviour.

You asked for my input, so let's step back from the details and look at the underlying beliefs and thinking which drives your compulsions.

This is a compulsion to 'get it right'. Doesn't matter what it is you feel you 'need to get right' , whether it's the TV frequency, or how your body is as you watch the TV, or therapy options, or any topic. 

It's clear you have a compulsion to achieve 'rightness', or perfection.

Cognitive therapy may reveal an unconscious (core) belief which is driving your compulsions, for example a general fear of underachievement. This unrealistic standard you've set yourself that everything has to be 'perfect' can then be addressed with some realism that 'good enough' is the ideal to aim for and that dismissing the multiple 'good enough' options as somehow being wrong is faulty thinking. It's this faulty thinking that makes you believe there's a 'right' way to watch TV,  a right frequency, a right therapy...

The cognitive side of CBT therapy will show you the whole concept of 'right way' is just an idea in your head, an imaginary standard you set yourself to achieve. Once you understand you are not bound by any universal rule on what IS right, it becomes a lot easier to tolerate the uncomfortable feelings when you do an exposure.

There is absolutely no need to 'undo' reassurance seeking, or any other kind of compulsive behaviour. NOT EVER.  

Attempting to do so is a neutralising compulsion. You can't 'undo' something by neutralising it. All you're doing is compounding the original compulsion with another compulsion. 

The faulty belief there's a 'right way' to be achieved also leads to the compulsion to neutralise when you get it 'wrong'. It's this underlying false belief you need to challenge. 

 

I think you're getting confused about what exposure is. (Several other forum users  share your confusion, you're not alone!) 

Put very simply,  'exposure' means not giving in to a compulsion. 

If your compulsion is to avoid touching a door knob (because you believe it's unclean) then touching it is the exposure. 

If your compulsion is to 'get it right' (because you believe there is a 'right' way for things to be) then your exposure is to tolerate the feeling that something's wrong, to resist the compulsion to adjust things, to accept 'right' is an idea, not a reality. 

So you stop seeking answers to the compulsion to find out what frequency to set the TV, you resist the compulsion to adjust your vision or your seating arrangements and instead relax and watch the film. 

If your mind starts telling you 'something doesn't feel right'  then your exposure is not to give in to the compulsion to work out what might be 'wrong', not to ruminate on it.

If you feel 'something's not right' your exposure is to sit with that feeling and remind yourself the feeling is only there because you've adopted a faulty belief in everything having a right and a wrong way to be, and that it is your core belief that you must achieve the 'perfect' with everything which drives the compulsion to 'fix' something. 

Accept there is nothing to fix. Nothing is wrong. There is nothing to think about, worry about  or ruminate over.

Hope that helps.  

I feel like I just did a physical compulsion because I rebooted and restored my laptop to its factory settings today. The reason I did this is because I got an intrusive thought that a critical system file on my computer might have been deleted when I emptied my recycle bin today. I feel so bad for restoring my computer that I feel I now must do something to compensate for my mistake of doing a compulsion. Apparently, I had a faulty belief that my computer was ruined (even though everything was working fine) so I restored it. Now, I feel I must expose myself to actually deleting a critical system file on my computer to show myself that there is nothing to fear. But, I don't want to ruin my computer by actually getting rid of an important system file. I want to be able to accept that yea, I did a compulsion, it was most likely useless and unnecessary to restore my computer, but I did it. I made a mistake. Time to move on. Why can't I let myself move on? I feel the need to fix the faulty belief that I needed to restore my computer in the first place.

 

[saddaniels]

I keep applying this thinking:

If someone washes their hands as a compulsion because they believe to be dirty, they would be asked to confront germs on purpose as an exposure, whether that be touching a toilet, laying on the floor, etc.

to

If I restore my computer as a compulsion because I believe something is wrong with my computer, I should confront wrongness on my computer, such as deleting a critical file or messing with settings on my computer.

 

If it doesn't matter the theme for OCD, I can't wrap my head around how treatment/exposures would be any different for a particular theme. Isn't all OCD the same?? Examples help me to see clearer, so if anyone can think of other times where you wouldn't necessarily confront your fear directly, that might be of assistance. 

I'd really like to calm this down with realistic, rational logic before it all spreads like wildfire again with this theme revolving around my computer.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by saddaniels

[kaheath80]

Well surely- people with harm OCD would not confront their fears by harming someone... is that a good example?

[kaheath80]

You confront the compulsions. You didn't have a compulsion to delete the file, therefore you don't do it. 

[kaheath80]

You seem to be trying to confront the obsessions instead of the compulsions. 

With the hand washing example- the obsession is they will catch a disease. The compulsion is to wash their hands a lot and avoid dirt. So as part of ERP they touch dirt or avoid washing their hands. If we followed your logic, you would fight the obsession instead and urge the person to catch a disease to confront it.

[PolarBear]

You should know by now that all of this is OCD at work. Once again you are considering doing domething abnormal. You're sitting there ruminating over it and trying to come up with reasons why you should do it. Once again you're fixated on exposure therapy when you shouldn't be.

It's OCD. Do nothing. Carry on with your day and work hard to stop the ruminating.

[saddaniels]

1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

Once again you are considering doing domething abnormal.

This is where I continue to be stumped, confused, and outright mind-boggled because exposures are supposed to be abnormal according to therapists who treat OCD. 

Throw a bible on the floor ... abnormal?

Eat gummy bears off a toilet seat ... abnormal?

Hold a knife to your stomach ... abnormal?

All of these, and prob. more that I'm not thinking of right now are considered abnormal, yet therapists urge patients to do these in order to confront their fears & even more so to get better.

I am in complete anxiety because I keep thinking of a therapist saying to "Would it make you anxious to delete a critical computer file?" The answer is yes, yes it would. Would it make them anxious? Maybe not, so maybe I should do that exposure. 

The politics of OCD treatment make zero sense to me and its disheartening and anxiety producing because I'm not doing the therapy right by just "sitting and doing nothing." 

I never thought I would suffer more after intense ERP treatment (I had four months of it) than before when I was suffering with OCD...but this is over-the-top dread and fear that I have never felt in all my years of experiencing OCD. This is the worst and its all revolving around therapy, the very thing that is supposed to bring peace to someone suffering from a mental illness. 

I do not know what to do right now. I have no idea what to do. 

And to some posters who say it sounds like I'm teaching instead of trying to comprehend advice. Its the opposite. I'm trying MY BEST to comprehend the advice, but so many things are conflicting in my brain related to treatment. I don't know how I can hang on much longer to this all of this pain in my body and mind. This is torture. I regret ever trying to participate in ERP therapy. I regret it so much and I hate myself for it.

Edited November 11, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

Unfortunately you've developed a twisted view of what ERP is. It's been explained to you numerous times. You have intrusive thoughts that you need to do ERP in situations that do not require ERP. it's as simple as that. And you listen to those intrusive thoughts and sit there and ruminate over them endlessly.

You never should have reset your computer. That was a compulsion. Now, as always, you're contemplating doing another compulsion (deleting a critical file). Why would you want to create more anxiety over this? You're already anxious. The only exposure you need to do is leave your computer alone and stop ruminating over the whole situation.

[saddaniels]

6 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

You never should have reset your computer. That was a compulsion. Now, as always, you're contemplating doing another compulsion (deleting a critical file). Why would you want to create more anxiety over this?

The thing is, I recognize reseting my computer as a compulsion. Therefore, my faulty belief must be that something terrible would happen if I deleted a critical file on my computer system, therefore, I should expose myself to deleting that critical file.

[saddaniels]

I believe I must correct that compulsion by facing a fear or else I'm not going to be able to focus on my computer, or even worse, get on with my life and not ruminate.

Edited November 11, 2016 by saddaniels

[kaheath80]

You're supposed to do the opposite of your compulsions I.e. If you want to reset your computer, don't. 

[kaheath80]

You don't do what you feared.

using your example- I have an obsession that if my wife and I don't have sex once a week, we will break up. I know I am supposed to confront that by not worrying about sex and seeing we don't break up. I don't confront it by breaking up with her to make myself anxious.

[PolarBear]

You're wrong. You're looking at this completely backwards.

A man has intrusive thoughts about germs. One of his compulsions is to not touch things that he perceives as dirty, like garbage cans. For ERP, he does the exact opposite, he touches a garbage can.

You are having intrusive thoughts that you must delete a critical file to somehow make things right. For ERP you do the exact opposite and leave the computer alone.

That's the most simple way I can explain it. Deleting the file would be unnecessary and a compulsion... Something we don't want you to do.

Edited November 11, 2016 by PolarBear

[kaheath80]

That's just what I said.

[saddaniels]

But when people don't want to eat gummy bears off a toilet, why are they sometimes asked to do this bizarre exposure? Its not like they were avoiding eating gummy bears off of a toilet. Its safe to say most everyone would avoid THAT. Same with computer file, most people would avoid deleting an important critical computer file, but exposures apparently can be completely out of the norm based on the gummy bear exposure and exposures don't necessarily have to be something you are avoiding, but rather something that would make you anxious. I'm still confused and this is my OCD now, and maybe something is wrong with me, but I still don't get it. My best bet would be to stop ruminating over this, but apparently my cognitive side is messed up. Until I get my cognitive side fixed, I'm genuinely afraid my ruminating will only get worse.

I comprehend what you guys are advising me to do, and I thank you for that. Individually though, I still see things on a technical level and that is eating me up.

I'm going to try and not post anymore today because I agree its part of a reassurance compulsion. There is just so much I can take until I need to let it out on the forums.

Again, thank you for being here, and I don't know what I would do with an OCD support forum right now. I truly don't. No one in my life right now really comprehends how severe OCD can be, but I know at least you guys can empathize with that. So <3 and thank you.

Edited November 11, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

I'm a liar, I'm back. I truly do not comprehend how a person exposed to eating gummy bears off a toilet is ever just supposed to come out and say "I'm okay with eating gummy bears off of a toilet!" I have this voice in my head telling me "Expose yourself to deleting a file off your computer. Eventually, your anxiety will decrease and you'll be okay with this file being deleted, just like someone exposed to eating gummy bears off a toilet will be okay with eating gummy bears off of a toilet." Technically, by this logic, I feel this makes sense.

[saddaniels]

Exposures SHOULD NOT consist of something that a regular person wouldn't do. A regular person would not eat gummy bears off a toilet. A regular person would not intentionally delete a critical computer file. A regular person would not hold a knife to their stomach. Yet, as people who suffer with OCD, we are told to do these things in order to expose ourselves and make our anxiety come down.  This treatment teaches you that doing these things are the norm, when I believe these are mental torture. If we are not our illness, why are treated like our illness through exposure therapy? I could scream at the top of my lungs right now because I feel like absolutely no one understands the point i'm making right now. i'm alone, squandered, with a feeling of complete dread and hopelessness at the moment.

Edited November 11, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

I understand the point you're trying to make. It just happens to be completely and utterly wrong.

What's happening right now, and it's happened quite a few times in the past, is you got an intrusive thought about how to do your own therapy. You are contemplating doing a compulsion. We don't want you to do compulsions so you should not be deleting that file. In any event, instead of leaving the whole matter alone you are sitting there ruminating over it, getting yourself more and more anxious.

Leave the computer the way it is and go do something else that you can focus your mind on. You are not doing yourself any favors by sitting there and thinking about this.

Edited November 11, 2016 by PolarBear

[saddaniels]

If someone who was washing their hands realized they had washed their hands one too many times, would it then be a compulsion to eat gummy bears off of a toilet seat in order to expose themselves to germs?

[saddaniels]

Because I'm thinking since I DID the compulsion of resetting my computer, that I should be exposed to my fear of the file being deleted, just as someone who did the compulsion of washing their hands too many times would be exposed to the fear of eating gummy bears off a toilet.

Confused is an understatement. 

[snowbear]

7 minutes ago, saddaniels said:

Confused is an understatement. 

The confusion comes from over-thinking it. You won't become less confused by doing even more thinking. 

Just like you can't 'undo' a compulsion by doing another compulsion.

Take a break from thinking about it all. Go do something enjoyable for a few hours (preferably nothing to do with computers) and take your mind off thinking about it completely.

[saddaniels]

Below is my thinking process explained to the best of my ability. Perhaps if I could pick pieces out to see where they don't make sense, that would help me cognitively. 

 

Intrusive thought: Because I may have just accidentally deleted a critical file, I'm going to have a hard time using my computer now, even though everything seems to be working okay right now.

Compulsion: Reset computer

Exposure: Delete important file

 

to 

 

Intrusive thought: Because my hands may have just gotten dirty, now, I'm going to get sick and die, even though everything seems okay right now.

Compulsion: Wash hands

Exposure: Get hands dirty

[kaheath80]

In the second example, the exposure is the opposite to the compulsion. In the first, deleting a file is not the opposite to resetting the computer, surely.

[PolarBear]

Explaining it to us the tenth time is not going to fix anything. You have completely warped and twisted the meaning of ERP. This is due to OCD. You make matters so much worse by doing compulsions, notably ruminating.

You did a compulsion by resetting your computer and now you want to fix that by doing another compulsion, deleting a critical system file. That's not how OCD recovery works. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You do not need to expose yourself in this situation. In fact, not every situation requires an exposure. What you need to do is work to stop your compulsions. Right now that means not deleting the file and ruminating.

Edited November 11, 2016 by PolarBear

[PolarBear]

You don't understand what your intrusive thoughts are. In this case your intrusive thought is you need to delete the file in order to do proper therapy. The compulsion would be to delete the file. So you do the opposite and do NOT touch the file.

Edited November 11, 2016 by PolarBear