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Today is a bad day. I was watching something on netflix and it had a sex scene, which caused an arousal in my body. As soon as I started feeling the arousal I had another memory pop back into my mind of about two years ago.

I've mentioned before that sometimes I would cross/press my thighs together both when I'm in a stressful situation and when I'm sexually aroused. I did it a lot of times while having intrusive thoughts and urges before but that's the not the bad thing. The bad thing is that I did it, without planning, twice, I believe, with my brother in the same room - and by that I mean he would enter my room while I was doing it. This is bad because doing this very weird thing leads to a sensation in my groinal area which feels nice. And now my brain is associating this with child abuse because I basically pleasures myself next to a child. I'm not sure whether this is indeed child abuse. It could be but I really hope it's not. 

I'm feeling very irritated and upset today and having another doubt again is just so much. 

I don't really know why I'm here. I mean, I really wanted to confess this but other than that I don't know what I want by posting this. 

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5 minutes ago, Cora said:

 

I don't really know why I'm here. I mean, I really wanted to confess this but other than that I don't know what I want by posting this. 

Don't you?  You wanted to carry out a compulsion to bring the anxiety down, a method that doesn't work ( as has been explained)

It's a sad thing to say but you're pretty much going to struggle and stay stuck with anxiety attacks until you decide to change the way you deal with things.  The ball's very much in your court, only you can make those changes and then begin to make progress.

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39 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

Don't you?  You wanted to carry out a compulsion to bring the anxiety down, a method that doesn't work ( as has been explained)

Well, it didn't help. Still feeling awful. 

@Caramoole, this is so hard. Every day there's something else. Every single day my brain tells me I'm awful and only deserve bad things. Every single day my brain tells me I'm disgusting. And how can I not agree with my it if there's so much "evidence"? I know I shouldn't complain because I've had the greatest help for the past 3 years but this is awful. 

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I wish I could give you a magic answer but this is going to happen, there is going to be something else every day because essentially you haven't made any changes.  If you apply the same faulty remedy every day, how can things change?  The bottom line is you have ZERO evidence, all you have is your faulty interpretation of thoughts you apply to innocent situations.  These interpretations are your muddled thoughts, they're what you tell yourself as fact.  Listen to your therapist and really start to apply the advice she's given you.  It's the way out but you have to start the process

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Hi there... I often wish I was guilt free, pure, innocent... But I'm not...

In this life, absolutely no one gets to their  sixties guilt free regardless of what those around us may say ... No one... Even Jesus got into trouble sometimes. We aren't perfect, but we are loveable rogues... A bit rough around the edges... I got up to stuff as a youngster, cos I was hungry...

I was hungry...

I leave it behind, I cannot change it, I'm human, faulty, and proud of being so... Faulty...

Do you of anyone in your life who is perfect? Ever stolen a car? Smoked? Ever made a mistake and learnt from it? Just let it go... It is long gone now...

David 

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Cora, I know moments like that: You're somehow forgetting about all the stuff that happened, feel better and then somehow get reminded. Now there is an initial shock or at least a feeling, which makes one very uncomfortable. The best way to get over them, is to NOT ruminate about them: Not even a second. Just ignore this bad feeling, it will go away. If you ruminate, it will IMMEDIATELY get worse. Don't do that. It's a trap. But I'm pretty sure you don't even get better, somehow. For me it's more like, as if you live constantly with guilt. Like, you can't even focus on OCD itself, because you're totally trapped in the rabbit hole already. And I really would have wanted to give up trying to help you…

…but there was a very interesting sentence in your post:

Quote

And how can I not agree with my it if there's so much "evidence"?

Now, I think I really identified the very core issue with you: You think all those many incidents, are basically a net of evidence against you. Furthermore, I also think, that you would normally not weight any of these incidents isolated that much, but because they happen so frequently, you happen to look at them from a much worse point of view.

In your logic, you're like:

One incident? Well, who cares. Everybody has moments like that.

But many incidents? That's a totally different story and I should really feel bad, that I in fact have a very pervert nature in myself.

That is, I really believe, the biggest issue for you. It's like with ants: Isolated, an ant is weak. With an army of ants, it gets strong. That's your logic. So the incident itself only is bad in your eyes, because you set it in relation to all these other incidents: A net of evidences that you're in fact a sexual deviant. And therefore each incident has to be seen way more critical, than from others, right? It's a very interesting approach from your OCD. And let me tell you, that OCD of yours is really a son of a…

To come back: I can take so many conclusions out of that. Because of that, you also believe that you potentially are in fact a sexual deviant, which also means, that every single incident need to be seen from a different point of view. Much more critical. Much worse. Not only that, but you also really believe, that if this had happened to someone else, they wouldn't need to worry, only because of the fact, that they're in fact just sexually normal people. It happened just once to them. It says nothing about them. The incident says nothing about them. You can't put them basically on the same line. Says your inner mind. Why? Often versus Once.

Really though, Cora. I want to ask you a very simple question: If the worst of all of your incidents would have happened to you, but just once and NOTHING else, would you be able to move on from it easily? I'm pretty sure, yes. Now, another question: Would be able to move on from the most innocent incident, if it would happen multiple times a day? I'm pretty sure, that this would be much tougher, right?

And this is exactly the very error in your thinking. The equations in your head “The more intrusive thoughts I have about a specific topic, the more it says about me” and “The more intrusive thoughts I have, the worse the incidents need to be valued” are utterly wrong and complete nonsense! Totally false! Absolutely not true at all! False logic at it's very best!

Why do you think people initially have intrusive thoughts at all, then? There is and always will be the factor of weird thoughts/moments in every single human that lives on earth, Cora. And they will happen more than once to anyone! And if they had OCD like you, it would happen as much as often, as it does happen to you! It's that easy! You're not the only one! And it doesn't matter what the reasons are, we do get weird thoughts here and then: I don't care if it's because everyone has a perverted nature very deep inside himself, because of curiosity, some random emotion or because of some relation to something else. It doesn't matter! Even if it will take years for an incident to happen again. They will happen, very similar to the past one of the very same theme. For example thoughts of murder: People will get multiple occurrences of murdering someone throughout their life. It doesn't matter if they in fact the most pacifist persons in their life: Multiple times! Just because you happen to get intrusive thoughts more frequently, it doesn't function as some kind of net of evidences, that you do in fact have a very disturbing personality! It also doesn't mean, that each new incident makes any other incidents worse! I call that logic totally ********! The pacifist guy isn't going to be a murderer, just because he had thoughts like that throughout his life! Stop this wrong logic!

Especially you, who happen to have OCD, should already know, that one of OCD's symptoms is, that you are getting MORE intrusive thoughts, the more you ruminate! And you're basically the Ruminating-Master-1000. This fact, is basically the first thing we AS sufferers are always told! Don't ruminate and let it go, otherwise you'll get more and more intrusive thoughts! And now your very wrong logic: Just because someone constantly has the fear, that his hand may be contaminated with bacteria, it doesn't mean that suddenly bacteria will pop out there and his hand is in fact contaminated. No! This logic is totally ********! And obviously you are able to understand that, as you don't have problems with contamination like others do have. But they don't. At the same moment, the very same applies to your problem! But then, you don't understand it. I think this even resembles magical thinking somehow, given how your logic works here. This is just some adventurous conclusion here, really.

This is your very core issue and that's why you can't move on. I'm 100% sure this is it and if not, I seriously don't know what the magic explanation would be, to get you back on track. I really HOPE that this was the one. Not only that, but I think so often about you and your problem. It just makes me sad, and I REALLY hate to see you suffer.

@Caramoole I'm really sorry, but I swear this is the last attempt. After that, I won't give any more explanations. I promise.

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51 minutes ago, discuccsant said:

@CaramooleI'm really sorry, but I swear this is the last attempt. After that, I won't give any more explanations. I promise.

I understand that this is done with the best intent but I really don't think this is helping at all.  I think that it has the opposite effect.  Cora does have all the facts in hand, described in hundreds of ways.  Now is a time for doing, for actioning the advice she has, particularly that from her therapist who I'm pretty certain would not be happy with this or her use of the forum.  It is holding her back rather than helping :(

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23 hours ago, discuccsant said:

Cora, I know moments like that: You're somehow forgetting about all the stuff that happened, feel better and then somehow get reminded. Now there is an initial shock or at least a feeling, which makes one very uncomfortable. The best way to get over them, is to NOT ruminate about them: Not even a second. Just ignore this bad feeling, it will go away. If you ruminate, it will IMMEDIATELY get worse. Don't do that. It's a trap. But I'm pretty sure you don't even get better, somehow. For me it's more like, as if you live constantly with guilt. Like, you can't even focus on OCD itself, because you're totally trapped in the rabbit hole already. And I really would have wanted to give up trying to help you…

…but there was a very interesting sentence in your post:

Now, I think I really identified the very core issue with you: You think all those many incidents, are basically a net of evidence against you. Furthermore, I also think, that you would normally not weight any of these incidents isolated that much, but because they happen so frequently, you happen to look at them from a much worse point of view.

In your logic, you're like:

One incident? Well, who cares. Everybody has moments like that.

But many incidents? That's a totally different story and I should really feel bad, that I in fact have a very pervert nature in myself.

That is, I really believe, the biggest issue for you. It's like with ants: Isolated, an ant is weak. With an army of ants, it gets strong. That's your logic. So the incident itself only is bad in your eyes, because you set it in relation to all these other incidents: A net of evidences that you're in fact a sexual deviant. And therefore each incident has to be seen way more critical, than from others, right? It's a very interesting approach from your OCD. And let me tell you, that OCD of yours is really a son of a…

To come back: I can take so many conclusions out of that. Because of that, you also believe that you potentially are in fact a sexual deviant, which also means, that every single incident need to be seen from a different point of view. Much more critical. Much worse. Not only that, but you also really believe, that if this had happened to someone else, they wouldn't need to worry, only because of the fact, that they're in fact just sexually normal people. It happened just once to them. It says nothing about them. The incident says nothing about them. You can't put them basically on the same line. Says your inner mind. Why? Often versus Once.

Really though, Cora. I want to ask you a very simple question: If the worst of all of your incidents would have happened to you, but just once and NOTHING else, would you be able to move on from it easily? I'm pretty sure, yes. Now, another question: Would be able to move on from the most innocent incident, if it would happen multiple times a day? I'm pretty sure, that this would be much tougher, right?

And this is exactly the very error in your thinking. The equations in your head “The more intrusive thoughts I have about a specific topic, the more it says about me” and “The more intrusive thoughts I have, the worse the incidents need to be valued” are utterly wrong and complete nonsense! Totally false! Absolutely not true at all! False logic at it's very best!

Why do you think people initially have intrusive thoughts at all, then? There is and always will be the factor of weird thoughts/moments in every single human that lives on earth, Cora. And they will happen more than once to anyone! And if they had OCD like you, it would happen as much as often, as it does happen to you! It's that easy! You're not the only one! And it doesn't matter what the reasons are, we do get weird thoughts here and then: I don't care if it's because everyone has a perverted nature very deep inside himself, because of curiosity, some random emotion or because of some relation to something else. It doesn't matter! Even if it will take years for an incident to happen again. They will happen, very similar to the past one of the very same theme. For example thoughts of murder: People will get multiple occurrences of murdering someone throughout their life. It doesn't matter if they in fact the most pacifist persons in their life: Multiple times! Just because you happen to get intrusive thoughts more frequently, it doesn't function as some kind of net of evidences, that you do in fact have a very disturbing personality! It also doesn't mean, that each new incident makes any other incidents worse! I call that logic totally ********! The pacifist guy isn't going to be a murderer, just because he had thoughts like that throughout his life! Stop this wrong logic!

Especially you, who happen to have OCD, should already know, that one of OCD's symptoms is, that you are getting MORE intrusive thoughts, the more you ruminate! And you're basically the Ruminating-Master-1000. This fact, is basically the first thing we AS sufferers are always told! Don't ruminate and let it go, otherwise you'll get more and more intrusive thoughts! And now your very wrong logic: Just because someone constantly has the fear, that his hand may be contaminated with bacteria, it doesn't mean that suddenly bacteria will pop out there and his hand is in fact contaminated. No! This logic is totally ********! And obviously you are able to understand that, as you don't have problems with contamination like others do have. But they don't. At the same moment, the very same applies to your problem! But then, you don't understand it. I think this even resembles magical thinking somehow, given how your logic works here. This is just some adventurous conclusion here, really.

This is your very core issue and that's why you can't move on. I'm 100% sure this is it and if not, I seriously don't know what the magic explanation would be, to get you back on track. I really HOPE that this was the one. Not only that, but I think so often about you and your problem. It just makes me sad, and I REALLY hate to see you suffer.

@Caramoole I'm really sorry, but I swear this is the last attempt. After that, I won't give any more explanations. I promise.

Thank you so very much for this amazing explanation, @discuccsant

And thank you, @Caramoole

I've tried to do better today but I failed yet again. It's very hard. 

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On 18/10/2021 at 20:15, discuccsant said:

Now, I think I really identified the very core issue with you: You think all those many incidents, are basically a net of evidence against you. Furthermore, I also think, that you would normally not weight any of these incidents isolated that much, but because they happen so frequently, you happen to look at them from a much worse point of view.

In your logic, you're like:

One incident? Well, who cares. Everybody has moments like that.

It's like you were in my head, @discuccsant - you described absolutely perfectly how my mind works. 

I really, really wish I didn't have to deal with so, so many incidents. As you say, I'm sure I would be able to move on from one big incident much easier than a thousand of tiny ones that happen frequently. 

It makes me so mad and angry that I have all these incidents to worry about. It's the worst burden. It's like carrying rocks on your shoulders from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, and only get some sort of relief when you are deeply involved in some activity or spend time with someone else, such as friends and family. 

I just want some relief and peace. 

Once again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me - I really appreciate it! 

Edited by Cora
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And then guess what, today I got another memory of when I had a very, very, very strong sexual urge towards my boyfriend's dog and then immediately after I gave him a stroke.

It's crazy. Every single day is like this.

I'm really sorry. I'm trying to use the advice but it's so, so difficult when the memories are about such awful incidents. 

Edited by Cora
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Cora, have you looked into Brain Lock yet? It has so many answers.  

I’m so sorry you’re suffering, but you have to begin to take conscious action to help yourself. This is not going to go away by hoping, wishing or waiting. 

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1 hour ago, Cora said:

I really, really wish I didn't have to deal with so, so many incidents. As you say, I'm sure I would be able to move on from one big incident much easier than a thousand of tiny ones that happen frequently. 

I'm sure most sufferers feel the same.......but I still don't think you understand OCD properly.  What you've mentioned is assuming that your OCD is somehow different or more complex than others.  It's almost as naive as thinking that someone with contamination issues just worries about one area being contaminated, like the kitchen work top.  They don't, they may have dozens of issues every day.......clothing, dog poo, people brushing past them, discarded needles, toilets, crockery, etc etc etc.....they don't have "one big incident"  Their "umbrella" obsession is contamination.    You have various incidents associated with your Brother, Mother, animals, Cousin but your "umbrella" obsession is doing something sexually inappropriate.  Until you get this core knowledge & understanding in place it's going to be difficult for you to make improvement.

You say you've tried to do better, that you're trying to take the advice but what does that mean Cora?  What are the specific things that you've tried to do.  I suspect that it means that you've just tried to put up with it.  What plans have you in place to deal with the urge to carry out a compulsion?  What are you trying to do when your mind wanders off into rumination?

I know it's really hard and scary but you need the basic building blocks in place, you need to understand and accept how OCD affects us

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Caramoole is absolutely right.

You seem to lack how OCD even works or how it feels for others. No one here, who writes in this forum, does it just because of one random intrusive thought. No. They are constantly bombarded by it. So you really need to understand this, before you can even continue to work on getting better. Knowledge is the key. That goes with everything and that goes with OCD as well.

Everyone here is basically in the same boat as you. You're not different to anyone!

I was also in your shoes. I always had and still have those intrusive thoughts. The more I'm frightened by them, the more frequently they come. It's very unfair, if you really think about it. Like, our biology doesn't care about the emotions we have regarding certain things in our minds. No. It just cares if we happen to think about it, no matter how we think about it. So we basically get intrusive thoughts about stuff, which we really fear and are frightened off. Not because we're somehow weird wired individuals. Nah. It's just that we are basically trapped in a never-ending cycle of: Fear -> Thinking about it -> Random intrusive thoughts -> Fear -> Thinking about it.....

And Cora. Please. You really need to stop posting your incidents. They're all laughable. Like really laughable. Objectively speaking, even though subjectively, you really seem to suffer by them. Every single one here is very laughable. Like, really: every, single one.

Trapped in OCD's rabbit hole, you're obviously not able to see it. So you need to somehow “step out” of this rabbit hole: Like normally, that happens after some kind of assurance from somebody else. You get this short relief, and then you're okay again for some short time. But regarding you, I'm not even sure if you can climb out of that rabbit hole for some moment at all. I don't know, that's really hard. I think OCD can't be beaten, if you can't get yourself to a mindset, where you're like “Oh, that's so OCD”, even if you suffer from it from in the very moment. You need to have this distanced view of yourself. It's very hard to explain, but in this mindset, you're basically spectating yourself from the outside and are also able to analyze yourself and OCD's impact on you.

At some point, with this very rational view, I, for example, was like having this “normal me” again, where I was like “Well, that's weird. Why am I not in this constant state of fear, doubt, and anxiety anymore? Ah okay, really seems like as if there is really this OCD mode and right now I'm in this normal mode and that at some point, the anxiety takes over and slowly but surely, the OCD mode fully takes it place again!”. And yeah, that's how it is for me, really. And I think it's crucial to get at this step, to really begin the REAL battle against your OCD.

I'm also constantly falling into the rabbit hole again, but with time, the anxiety I feel just happen to be much less impactful on me. I remember the very first time, I was like in a very, very bad psychological state, to be completely honest. Then at some point, it “just” felt like, as if I just need to function for my family. Then at later stages, I was like “Okay, OCD, you really annoy me. How was life before OCD again?”. And today — and I'm still not over OCD —  I'm just constantly “switching” from this very “normal me” mode to this “slightly anxiety driven OCD mode, where I feel basically bad, yet somehow know, that it's just my OCD in all of this and where I can still function. But yeah, still sucks to be in this mode.  And then, I just happen to get out of it again. And it happens frequently to me. There are days, where I'm like “Nah, that's over” just to be crushed by the anxiety again, because of whatever. But the good in all of this: I know, that I'll get out of this. Intrusive thoughts don't bother me at all. Like, I had tons of intrusive thoughts today. And yeah, they frighten me. But I don't argue with them. And the very moment they came, the very next moment I forget about them. And the good thing is: With this approach, intrusive thoughts of a very specific nature can't happen to scare me twice. So yeah, they are also getting less with that approach. I already endured it, so stop throwing your useless ammunition at me, OCD! And it gets better, day by day. That's how I'm right now — pretty sure it's almost over, yet still ****** me off here and then, but yeah. Patience is the key.

So yeah, it's hard. Yet It's also very easy theoretically, even though it's very hard practically: But in the end, it just gets better. Like I'm not constantly battling with my mind anymore. I don't try to argue with my OCD driven thoughts. No. I just let them there, no matter how ****** I feel and how strong the urge in me is to argue with them. And at some point I'll get back to this “normal mode” again, where I do see things clearly again without anxiety. And that's why I know, that I don't need to argue with OCD at all. No. I don't care. My hope, is that I'll be in this “normal mode” forever. And the more I break the patterns, the harder it gets for my OCD to get me again.

I would really suggest to you, after finding your core issue, that you talk with your therapist about that. I think she is already too much ahead in treating you? Likewise, I can't treat some guy with chemo, if I haven't removed his tumor yet — if you get what I mean. So you should really try to talk with your therapist again, as if you began your therapy from new. And be open with your therapist. Like really open. Your therapist needs to 100% understand what's going on in your mind, and PLEASE don't confuse that with telling her about incidents. No. You need to explain how YOU are feeling and what your inner world is like. Maybe you have some kind of PTSD, before it makes any sense to treat your OCD? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist, but I just don't think you are really ready for the more advanced stuff. And OCD is for everyone very different and just because things work for this or that person, it doesn't mean that it also has to work for you or me.

I would be very happy to see you doing that, Cora and I really hope, that among the next times you're going to write here, we are not seeing some irrelevant “incident”, but about how you are progressing or how to deal with certain situations.

You also seem to be still very young. That's the most precious time of your life. Don't throw it away like that. When I was studying, I had much better things to do, than overthinking unnecessary stuff: Beautiful time, which formed me and my character for the rest of my life. Being in the 20s. Studying at a university. Getting interested in philosophy, the meaning of life and politics. Get to know new, very interesting people, which contribute in the development of your personality. You lack that, I really think. But I want to see you ruminating about ideas like Neoplatonism, Aristotle, and general Metaphysics. Being curious about religious ideas like Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Atheism, Deism, Dualism and Monism. I want to see you debating with other people what's the best ideology for humans: Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, or Anarchism. I want to see you active as an activist for the environment or against wars. Likewise, I want to see you young, dynamic and open, with a love letter to life in your mind — that's what I was like at your age.

You really need to use this time this way. I think almost every adult had this time, especially if you have an academic background. And OCD is basically destroying this awesome time in your life, if you don't handle it early enough the right and only way.

I wish you the very best, Cora, really. You can do it.

Edited by discuccsant
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