need help please

[bendylouise]

I always rinse my hands twice. This in my mind satisfies me that they have been done thoroughly. I don't do them meticulously each time, but instead do them twice. That is how I do it. Last night when I was rinsing my hands in the bathroom, as usual I did them twice but on the second time thought I didn't do them properly enough. I knew it was going to happen because I was feeling quite nervous. So i decided enough was enough and I wouldn't do it  the third time.

As a result the towel doesn't feel clean because I didn't make sure my hands are clean. This is what led to the restrictions being re-imposed. i have tried to make the towel clean by doing some compulsions with it and am trying to believe it and the chair it is on are now clean. i cannot bear to check things again or to change a towel again that has been there for only a very short time.

I've been re-reading my posts to try to see sense but I'm still suffering from restrictions and the thought that if only I had rinsed my hands again – things would be clean and I could do things again. I want to take a new approach to rinsing my hands,  or just accept without question that doing them twice, non-meticulously is enough. However, until things feel clean again and I start doing things again, I'm scared of trying to make changes because it feels like I'm letting myself off the hook.

It feels like I need to time to get thinking clearer, but in the meantime my life is disrupted, restricted and messed up and I'm not functioning properly. It's like I get a taste of some mental freedom for a while and then make a  decision on the spur of the moment  which backfires because it doesn't feel legitimate and just feels like I couldn't be bothered to make sure my hands are clean. After doing so well, this is horrendous. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by bendylouise

[snowbear]

6 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

I want to take a new approach to rinsing my hands,  or just accept without question that doing them twice, non-meticulously is enough

Or start from the belief that doing them once is enough, even if you're distracted and not meticulous about it.

That way you have lots of leeway without breaking any rule that would 'let you off the hook'. 

(And incidentally is the normal handwash you're ultimately aiming for.

[bendylouise]

2 minutes ago, snowbear said:

(And incidentally is the normal handwash you're ultimately aiming for.

So you're saying doing them once, non-meticulously is normal?

[snowbear]

Just now, bendylouise said:

So you're saying doing them once, non-meticulously is normal?

Yup.

Most people wash their hands (perfectly adequately) without any repetition or focus on the task. When washing your hands isn't an obsession it's such a routine thing to do that you can do it on autopilot while your mind wanders off to other matters.

It's only a problem because you have the obsessive thought 'My hands must be scrupulously cleaner-than-clean with no mistakes, no loss of focus, and done twice to be on the safe side or they won't feel right and I'll not be free to touch anything else.'

And then you do the compulsive double-rinse etc And hey-presto - you're locked into OCD without realising.

[bendylouise]

16 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

However, until things feel clean again and I start doing things again, I'm scared of trying to make changes because it feels like I'm letting myself off the hook.

 

and do you understand what i mean (above)?

[snowbear]

5 hours ago, bendylouise said:

and do you understand what i mean (above)?

Totally. Got that particular t-shirt ten times over.

It's all part of the 'When/Then' mind game. 'When I'm clean again, then I'll brave up and make changes.'

Handily postponing the moment when you have to pluck up the courage and ACTUALLY make changes rather than just planning to make them.

Subconsciously nobody ever wants to have to dig deep and face the fear. But we don't like to tell ourselves that uncomfortable truth, so we (subconsciously) find other ways of explaining things which sit better with the idea that 'I'm a brave person and I genuinely intend to do this   Just not now, not until...(when/ then) 

How do you overcome it? Decide you're going to dig deep and face the fear now/ today/ the very next time you get the urge not to face it. And then use that as your motivation,  'I've passed the when/then deadline so here goes...!'

 

[bendylouise]

4 hours ago, snowbear said:

How do you overcome it? Decide you're going to dig deep and face the fear now/ today/ the very next time you get the urge not to face it. And then use that as your motivation,  'I've passed the when/then deadline so here goes...!'

 

I'm not sure I know what you mean. My aim is to start anew once things feel clean enough and at the same time make a commitment to go against the thoughts/rules when something else occurs to make me feel i have to restrict myself again. Then it's out in the open, I have stated my intentions and I'm clear what I intend to do. Of course I might be kidding myself again and if i am i will admit it.

[DRS1]

10 hours ago, bendylouise said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean. My aim is to start anew once things feel clean enough and at the same time make a commitment to go against the thoughts/rules when something else occurs to make me feel i have to restrict myself again. Then it's out in the open, I have stated my intentions and I'm clear what I intend to do. Of course I might be kidding myself again and if i am i will admit it.

I think (and I could be wrong) what @snowbear was saying is that you don't want to wait until you feel clean because your not going to get to that stage. OCD will just keep telling you that you aren't clean no matter how many times you wash your hands.

 

The idea of I have to wait for X so that I can do Y doesn't work unfortunately. It just keeps you in that cycle, I know from experience for that one.

 

Make the choice now despite feeling unclean that you aren't going to do the compulsions and you are going to start trying today, not tommorow, or next week or next month.

 

A good comparison here is that of new years resolutions. So many people wait for January to come round only to fail at their new years resolutions. They put their goals off until that time. People that start making changes now will be more likely to succeed.

 

Your current logic is that you will do just one last compulsion and then you will stop but you'll end up finding that last compulsion isn't the last compulsion there will be another last compulsion and another and another. It never ends when you do that as it's a very slippery slope.

[bendylouise]

22 hours ago, snowbear said:

How do you overcome it? Decide you're going to dig deep and face the fear now/ today/ the very next time you get the urge not to face it. And then use that as your motivation,  'I've passed the when/then deadline so here goes...!'

 

I want to do above but i am aiming to start anew once things feel clean enough and at the same time make the required commitment to go against the thoughts/rules when something next occurs to make me feel i have to restrict myself again - which Snowbear talks about above. Then it's out in the open, I have stated my intentions and I'm clear what I intend to do. 

The problem now is - because i feels so important for everything to feel clean, i dont know how to make it so.  Usually i can within a few days. Then sooner or later another OC issue occurs, and i think i have to restrict things again, either because some action/thought has made me feel unclean and i feel my skin is in danger of getting disgusting and damaged (which is probably the worst thing) or I've done something else which i need to punish myself for.

6 hours ago, DRS1 said:

Your current logic is that you will do just one last compulsion and then you will stop but you'll end up finding that last compulsion isn't the last compulsion there will be another last compulsion and another and another. It never ends when you do that as it's a very slippery slope.

Yes, i get you totally. i have done so for years on end,  but i want to make a private and public (on here) commitment to change things next time. I have managed quite a lot of improvement and put better practices in place but when i think ive done something wrong and i cant cope with myself, it always comes down to me applying restricting rules and it's that that I can't stand and that affects my life so badly. It's so difficult with my physical restrictions and that's why I can't be busy and just go ahead and keep busy a lot of the time to be usefully occupied and when I won't even let myself do useful/enjoyable things, it's even worse.

 

[snowbear]

 

2 hours ago, bendylouise said:

Then it's out in the open, I have stated my intentions and I'm clear what I intend to do. 

Brave and honest - good.

2 hours ago, bendylouise said:

The problem now is - because i feels so important for everything to feel clean, i dont know how to make it so.  Usually i can within a few days. Then sooner or later another OC issue occurs, and i think i have to restrict things again, either because some action/thought has made me feel unclean and i feel my skin is in danger of getting disgusting and damaged (which is probably the worst thing) or I've done something else which i need to punish myself for.

Intentions  have to be turned into actions.

The problem is if you only intend to change when things feel clean enough and you don't know how to reach that point then your brave and honest intentions never turn into actions.  (Playing the when /then game with good intentions as the subject matter.) 

As DRS1 says, it's like putting off change with the intention of making a New Year Resolution and then either not feeling up to the change when January arrives or giving up on it by February.

The choice therefore is either to get rid of conditions altogether (start making changes without feeling clean first)  OR

if that feel's like too much in one go, make a definite plan on what you're going to do to make things feel clean enough, stick to it, and once it's done go ahead with the changes as planned even if it feels like the plan you made and followed didn't achieve sufficient cleanliness.

Put another way, what DRS1 and I are both trying to say is no matter how much or how often you clean, there will never be a time when everythings feels clean enough to break free of OCD and it's rules and make a fresh start.

Trust us on this. Speaking for myself I've lost decades to the belief/ hope that some day somehow I'd overcome the 'not quite clean enough to move on from this yet' feeling. I genuinely had the best of good intentions. I genuinely tried my hardest within the rules OCD had set for me.

Year after year, after year...decade after decade, I failed to reach that point of, 'OK, I've cleaned everything enough now and I feel ready to let it go and make the necessary changes to overcome OCD.'

Eventually it dawned on me that I had to start doing my best by breaking the rules OCD set for me.

Anything less wasn't my best, no matter how good the intention, or how honest and genuinely I gave it my all.

Whatever I believed 'my all' and 'my best' was I was going to have to dig deeper and find the courage to make changes without waiting for OCD to feel satisfied.

Scary? You bet! Feels impossible? Absolutely! But it is possible and it is what each and every one of us eventually has to do if we want to break free from our OCD-restricted lives.

There are no exceptions. In the 17 years I've been on these forums and in all the stories of recovery ever published or talked about, not one single person has ever successfully recovered from OCD by any other route.

We have to make changes before the OCD will release its grip. Trying to satisfy OCD first is what keeps us locked in the OCD cycle.

[bendylouise]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

if that feel's like too much in one go, make a definite plan on what you're going to do to make things feel clean enough, stick to it, and once it's done go ahead with the changes as planned

That is exactly what i intend to do. Thats what i was saying.

 

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Put another way, what DRS1 and I are both trying to say is no matter how much or how often yo u clean, there will never be a time when everythings feels clean enough to break free of OCD and it's rules and make a fresh start.

 

Yes, i get you.  I dont really clean much, i check and look till it feels right and its just something that i feel needs to be done.

At the moment I've been living with this "unclean" situation for a day or 2 and I'm still using the unclean items as if they  are clean and I don't feel I'm unclean myself, but I just have to do another compulsion to make sure things are clean before I lift the restrictions. Do you see?

It is sometimes a being unclean thing and sometimes another issue, usually some sort of standard or rule or the compulsion to punish myself, like i've said, that makes me default to the restrictions and misery. It's like unless I get everything right, the restrictions are always  the go-to answer. Its almost like a relief sometimes, like i cant handle life with the brakes off and need to stop things but then of course I'm miserable and can't do things because of the self-imposed restrictions. 

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Eventually it dawned on me that I had to start doing my best by breaking the rules OCD set for me.

Thats what i want to do.

 

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Anything less wasn't my best, no matter how good the intention, or how honest and genuinely I gave it my all.

 

Ok, this is what i will try to do too.

Its the punishment and restrictions that i always end up going to ultimately, as ive tried to explain, that kills me again and again. They take the place of  just experiencing normal panic, fear, disappointment, frustration etc etc. Black and white.

I hear you Snowbear, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honesty and detailed brilliant explanations of it all. I will do what i said i would do at the top of this post and let you know how it goes after that. 

BTW i also absolutely dont believe in NY resolutions! They're just a silly fad.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by bendylouise

[DRS1]

3 minutes ago, bendylouise said:

That is exactly what i intend to do. Thats what i was saying.

 

Yes, i get you.  I dont really clean much, i check and look till it feels right and its just something that i feel needs to be done.

At the moment I've been living with this "unclean" situation for a day or 2 and I'm still using the unclean items as if they  are clean and I don't feel I'm unclean myself, but I just have to do another compulsion to make sure things are clean before I lift the restrictions. Do you see?

It is sometimes a being unclean thing and sometimes another issue, usually some sort of standard or rule or the compulsion to punish myself, like i've said, that makes me default to the restrictions and misery. It's like unless I get everything right, the restrictions are always  the go-to answer. Its almost like a relief sometimes, like i cant handle life with the brakes off and need to stop things but then of course I'm miserable and can't do things because of the self-imposed restrictions. 

Thats what i want to do.

 

Ok, this is what i will try to do too.

Its the punishment and restrictions that i always end up going to ultimately, as ive tried to explain, that kills me again and again. They take the place of  just experiencing normal panic, fear, disappointment, frustration etc etc. Black and white.

I hear you Snowbear, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honesty and detailed brilliant explanations of it all. I will do what i said i would do at the top of this post and let you know how it goes after that. 

 

I'll just take one thing you've said there. "but I just have to do another compulsion to make sure...". That is a classic OCD trick. I'll do this just in case, or I have to make sure. Try and look out for the little tricks because this is exactly why we get caught in the cycle. It's great that you are trying to use things that aren't necessarily clean by OCD's definition but what you are doing by doing those compulsions "to make sure" is essentially like a mental cleansing instead. This unfortunately goes back to the same thing, it's like clickbait on a YouTube video. It's just trying to suck you back into the compulsions. I like to separate OCD as separate from myself so this may sound weird but its almost as if OCD knows that you are choosing not to listen to it, and its getting desperate for attention and has decided that the best way to keep you doing compulsions is to go along with your goal of getting rid of it but then throwing these little tricks it does like "to make sure" or "but this time it's different". I imagine the relief you feel if you can't get things right are because you've engaged in the compulsions and that reduces your anxiety around it and any feelings of uncertainty too.

[bendylouise]

1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

I imagine the relief you feel if you can't get things right are because you've engaged in the compulsions and that reduces your anxiety around it and any feelings of uncertainty too.

I'm sorry DRS1 but you've misunderstood. I dont feel relief when i can't get things right. I'm saying that when i've had no self-appointed restrictions for quite a while, which has happened a few times recently – it gets more and more stressful and more of a strain to keep it up and therefore I can't go on any longer without things going wrong again. 

Therefore I know that I haven't got the right approach, or I need more help.

1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

Try and look out for the little tricks because this is exactly why we get caught in the cycle. It's great that you are trying to use things that aren't necessarily clean by OCD's definition but what you are doing by doing those compulsions "to make sure" is essentially like a mental cleansing instead. 

Yes, I get that. But for me it is better simply because I suffer from chronic upper back pain which is severely aggravated by cleaning. 

 

1 hour ago, DRS1 said:

I like to separate OCD as separate from myself so this may sound weird but its almost as if OCD knows that you are choosing not to listen to it, and its getting desperate for attention and has decided that the best way to keep you doing compulsions is to go along with your goal of getting rid of it but then throwing these little tricks it does like "to make sure" or "but this time it's different".

Thanks DRS1, that's good insight, and helpful. I imagine that by separating OCD into a another entity or being separate from you, shows that it's an unwanted intruder rather than truth. 

[snowbear]

2 hours ago, bendylouise said:

Ok, this is what i will try to do too.

I believe you've now got the insight and understanding you need, Louise.  

You've got this! Your OCD days are numbered...

Give it your best shot and if you feel like things are getting sticky or confused again, remember we're here for you.

[bendylouise]

thank you Snowbear, i will do.

[DRS1]

8 hours ago, bendylouise said:

I'm sorry DRS1 but you've misunderstood. I dont feel relief when i can't get things right. I'm saying that when i've had no self-appointed restrictions for quite a while, which has happened a few times recently – it gets more and more stressful and more of a strain to keep it up and therefore I can't go on any longer without things going wrong again. 

Therefore I know that I haven't got the right approach, or I need more help.

Yes, I get that. But for me it is better simply because I suffer from chronic upper back pain which is severely aggravated by cleaning. 

 

Thanks DRS1, that's good insight, and helpful. I imagine that by separating OCD into a another entity or being separate from you, shows that it's an unwanted intruder rather than truth. 

Sorry for misunderstanding, I do that sometimes.

[bendylouise]

4 hours ago, DRS1 said:

Sorry for misunderstanding, I do that sometimes.

It s ok. 

[bendylouise]

Well, i've managed to satisfy myself that all is clean and now all restrictions are lifted. It was very difficult and involved lots of compulsions unfortunately. However, i have immediately bought some shoes that i wanted and now resolve to face the OCD with all the strength i possess. I am terrified i'll trick myself into bad ways but know that i've got to do it.

[bendylouise]

Hello, thought i'd pop in to update things. I've been doing good and only really gave in a bit to the obsession yesterday and today where i sort of said i couldnt do certain things one day and then had to make it 2 days. I'm not sure why i said it, i just felt a bit nervous and gave in to the thoughts. I wasn't really bothered about doing said thing for a couple of days  and i didnt stop other things that i usually would, but am not sure how to treat it. I'm definitely not going to punish myself for it, because that's part of my skewed thinking, but it does concern me that I didn't just banish the thought as nonsense but bought into it. 

This is the second day and earlier on I took chance on something which I'm now feel very anxious about. It involves a towel again and not rinsing my hands with clean water after they were in water that was not terribly clean. I don't usually do that but I had something in the sink in the bathroom with the plug-in and was washing some plastic things (legitimately).

Usually I don't touch the plug or water round the plug without rinsing my hands after because I think the plug isn't clean. I'm very worried I've now made the towel dirty and something needs to be done to correct it. I don't know if this is faulty thinking, I just couldn't be bothered to rinse my hands because there was soap in the water. Usually I'd never touch this plug without rinsing my hands in freshwater.

I want to reduce hand rinsing et cetera but have only done so a little bit this week and maybe I should make a bigger effort for that – if I had maybe I wouldn't feel like this now - I don't know. Any insights on above two issues would be very welcome. I don't want to change the towel, I've had enough of that and the towels only been there a couple of days. Is wanting to do so skewed thinking? 

[snowbear]

1 hour ago, bendylouise said:

Is wanting to do so skewed thinking? 

What do you think? Do you suppose an 'ordinary person' would change their towel just because they had touched the plug in their sink?

 

1 hour ago, bendylouise said:

I'm definitely not going to punish myself for it, because that's part of my skewed thinking

Good   This is progress.

1 hour ago, bendylouise said:

it does concern me that I didn't just banish the thought as nonsense but bought into it. 

Don't be so hard on yourself. You recognise now that you didn't have to buy into it, so next time you won't. Nobody gets it perfect first time/ all the time. Just notice your reaction for next time without judgement and then let it go.

[bendylouise]

11 hours ago, snowbear said:

What do you think? Do you suppose an 'ordinary person' would change their towel just because they had touched the plug in their sink?

 

No, i dont think they would. It would not even occur to them. I suppose its hard cos i'm breaking my habit. It is not "hard because its wrong". Obviously! - but its clarity which is so important to hold on to.

12 hours ago, snowbear said:

Don't be so hard on yourself. You recognise now that you didn't have to buy into it, so next time you won't. Nobody gets it perfect first time/ all the time. Just notice your reaction for next time without judgement and then let it go.

Yes.  I suppose im scared of it escalating, but i guess thats understandable, given my history, but now things (I - my thinking) is different. I'm terrified i'll loose clarity though and slip into old ways. Life is tough and i am always trying to think of ways to be engaged more to change my outlook. I feel very close to the edge generally, but am trying.

Hope you are well Snowbear and thanks.

 

[snowbear]

On 15/10/2022 at 14:51, bendylouise said:

I'm terrified i'll loose clarity though and slip into old ways.

Once you've gained insight into how your thinking process can be flawed you won't slip back to where you were before. You can't unlearn something you've learned.

You might - from time to time  - say to yourself 'I'm reacting to this with my skewed thinking again and go on to behave accordingly, doing compulsions, falling back into old habits, BUT you will do it knowing that you don't have to.

As time goes by and you gain more and more experience of 'This is how I feel after I use my skewed thinking' Vs 'This is how I feel when I use rational or openminded thinking' you will find it easier to willingly make the choice to use your rational thinking. 

What's changed is you now have insight of 'this is skewy' and 'this is rational' which you didn't fully have before. So you won't go back to old habits because there'll always be that insight acting like a gatekeeper on your behaviour.

Actually it gets kinda funny when you sometimes realise in the moment that you're choosing to behave according to the skewy thinking,   knowing full well it's skewed and unnecessary and 'the wrong thing to do' and yet you knowingly choose to behave that way on that occassion - just because you're angry at the universe or yourself or whatever, or too stubborn to use your rational thinking process even though you know you could if you wanted too. And inside you'll be kinda bewildered that you can act so and laughing at your own foolishness   and that's great! It's all part of the healing process and becoming skillful at choosing how to think about and interpret what is going on in your life.  So all good in the end.

I hope you can see how you're thinking processes and the way you interpret the universe has been changing lately, Louise. I can- clear as day. And it thrills me to know you're on your way to recovery via this route.

The change in you has been HUGE. And is hugely significant, even if as yet you can't see that for yourself. Gaining insight to 'how I think' is the key to change. The rest is just time, practice and more practice until you perfect the skill of making better choices on how you want to think and behave.

[bendylouise]

Thanks Snowbear. I've really wanted to reply for the last couple of days but I have not been able to. I'm feeling in a mess right now due to an upset (not ocd related) which has managed to shake me up and as a result confused my thinking again. It's made me nervous and i've slipped back a bit and I'm so upset about it.

At the moment I feel very panicky and my clarity has had a big knock. It's just life I guess but at the moment I can't see how I can get strong again. The upset that I suffered caused me to behave in a way I wouldn't normally (I told a friend some things that I didn't really want to),  making these bad decisions because she just happened to be here just after I'd had the upset and I now feel extremely vulnerable and disempowered. It's been a really horrible couple of days and i can't see how I can get over what's happened let alone pull myself back to my progress. 

i cant stop worrying about original upset and what  I'd revealed to a friend as a result. Then somehow put the skewy OCD thinking (which im currently really struggling with again) behind me.  I'm back to not sleeping and panicking and feeling miserable. I feel really pathetic. I'm so disappointed that a real life occurrence has done this. 

You made many good points in your post snowbear and I hope I can recover in time so that I can once more engage with it all. After making progress I'm now hating myself and feel out of control. God im hard work, im sorry.

Edited October 19, 2022 by bendylouise

[snowbear]

Don't apologise. 'Life happens' and it can knock you off-balance sometimes.

It sounds like you're ruminating on the event/ what you confided rather than letting it be. Stop trying to fix the past! Accept without judgement (forgive yourself if necessary) and put it behind you. What's done is done. All you have control over is where you go from here.

Remember going over stuff you can't change is just another type of skewy thinking (rumination.)

Tell yourself confidently that you're getting back in the saddle and starting over, and then give it your best shot. When you quit the negative self-talk its amazing what you can achieve - you might surprise yourself.

[bendylouise]

On 19/10/2022 at 16:53, snowbear said:

Tell yourself confidently that you're getting back in the saddle and starting over, and then give it your best shot. When you quit the negative self-talk its amazing what you can achieve - you might surprise yourself.

I've tried this, again and again but my goal of lifting all restrictions is yet to be lifted. My mind keeps saying things it used to, Some things (progresses) have remained but other even quite old thoughts/thinking routines have returned.  I am being threatened and seem to have lost my new mind set.

I think its cos a friend really upset me and then, as explained, i said things i wouldnt normally to another pal who had come round. I have been thinking for a few days of what I said and what it means and feel a bit easier about it now though still a bit worried. If i could get on with things i could forget it sooner i think. 

But the original upset I think has affected me deeper than I thought and although we are communicating and prob planning to see each other soon, my OCD problems have got bad, as explained. I always knew this person wasn't the most understanding of me but after years of knowing her, we misunderstood each other when i needed her. And weeks later  she practically issued me with an ultimatum which led to my problems.

I feel absolutely furious that i could allow someone else to affect my progress but it is an unusual situation that i couldnt just brush aside, though i tried. Its made me feel weak and vulnerable. I'm not worried about losing the friendship and hope we've both learned from this situation, though i still feel angry and quite incredulous of her words. I am however worried about my current state of mind. Is it all understandable?

I think I'm going to have to start reading and digging really deep again so soon after the last time and quite frankly it's exhausting and infuriatind because I feel like I can't do things again and though Snowbear you say you can't unlearn things - you know that my changes (progress) are pretty new and fledgling and my habits are old and ingrained. Its like im in a sort of panic or disturbedand my old coping mechanisms have returned. I suppose this is understandable? 

I wont allow myself to lose all my progress but, as explained, i have not been allowing myself to do some things again which is infuriating, inconveient and worrying. I'm not meant to be punishing myself for anything and someone else's behaviour has caused me (even if only temporarily) to do so. I cant let it continue and do I need to do something different, or is it just unfortunate luck, as i ask in para above?