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Guest Paul92

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So I was sitting eating my tea last night and watching TV and I remembered an obsession I had a while ago. Probably the mother of all obsessions. Solipsism. How do I know that everything, including you and everyone else, isn't just a product of my mind, how do I know you're not conscious? I know I will never be able to tell.

I didn't sleep well last night. It just came out of nowhere. I'll never be able to say one way or another. How do I know my loved ones are real? I guess I won't ever know! This drives me crazy.

I'm trying to stay occupied. This morning I have painted the skirting boards in my bathroom and now I am trying to watch some videos on youtube but everytime I think of it my heart sinks.

Any advice? Can someone please swear to me they are conscious and real. I hate this, I could cry.

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We can't engage with your compulsions. Giving you an answer to your question is pointless. Doubt will surface, more obsessions will rise and off you'll go again.

What you need to do is stop trying to answer the question. You are under no obligstion yo gind an answer. Your mind will scream at you that you must find an answer but doing so is a trap. It only leads to a quagmire of doubt.

Stay away from all activities that include trying to figure out if life is real or not. It will be hard but it can be done.

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4 hours ago, PolarBear said:

We can't engage with your compulsions. Giving you an answer to your question is pointless. Doubt will surface, more obsessions will rise and off you'll go again.

What you need to do is stop trying to answer the question. You are under no obligstion yo gind an answer. Your mind will scream at you that you must find an answer but doing so is a trap. It only leads to a quagmire of doubt.

Stay away from all activities that include trying to figure out if life is real or not. It will be hard but it can be done.

My mind is screaming at me that I must find an asnwer. I've been down that rabbit hole before, Googling etc. So far today I havent Googled anything or really thought much about it. But it feels like it is lingering over me. Like I can't prove that anyone else is conscious and real. It might all be a dream or something.

If it is OCD then I hate this illness. I don't think anyone realises how debilitating it really is. It's one thing after another. Just when I thought I was getting better at dealing with certain things..

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6 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

Just when I thought I was getting better at dealing with certain things.

Relapses are frustrating but it’s also a mistake to assume that because you’ve had a setback that you haven’t been making progress.  Two steps forward, one step back is still moving forward. OCD recovery is almost certainly not going to be a path of constant progress forward, there will be setbacks along the way.  Yes those setbacks suck, but don’t give up when they happen. Use what you have learned to help deal with them, learn what you can and work at continuing forward. A championship winning team seldom gets there without losing at least a game or two along the way right?

 

9 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

My mind is screaming at me that I must find an asnwer.

Trust me, we understand. The thing it’s screaming about might be different for some of us but the feeling of NEEDING to answer is the same. Listen to PolarBear because he’s absolutely right, the reality is you don’t need to answer the question. Billions of people on earth live their lives everyday without answering it. You can too. 
 

11 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

Like I can't prove that anyone else is conscious and real. It might all be a dream or something.

You’re right, you can’t prove it. Maybe this IS all a dream. So what?  That’s what you have to say. So what?  You don’t have to answer. You can keep on going without ever knowing. The rest of us do it all the time. You can too. Your brain will stop screaming at you, it’ll get bored with this, unless you give it a reason to think the thought is important. The less compulsions you engage in, the quicker your brain gets bored and you stop having to deal with this intrusive thought. 

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@dksea As always, I am really grateful for your post. It means a lot. And once again, what you say makes complete sense. As you probably understand, however, it is much harder to put into practice. But I am really trying. Lately every time my mind tried to fixate on something I really forced myself to just not get involved and get on with whatever I am doing.

This one just seems extra tough haha. But I suppose whatever theme you have at that moment is always the hardest. I struggle to say 'so what?', because then I feel like I am accepting that my loved ones are not real. Like I am talking to nothing. I love nothing. It's a very scary thought.

Am I going mad? Can I actually recover from this just by not engaging with it? What if it just stays like this, I can barely function today.

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Look on the bright side, even if there is nothing but you, at least you can keep your family and friends around forever!!!!! After all, if it was all imagined by you, you'd be the one dictating the terms and making the rules for how it all happens!!!! Therefore it stands to reason you'd use your powers to prevent your loved ones and friends from ever aging, suffering from disease or dying!!!!!! But I guarantee you that no matter how hard you try to stop it, they'll age!!!!! You could also potentially make yourself ridiculously rich if all this is just imagined, or a dream!!!

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2 minutes ago, STEJ said:

Look on the bright side, even if there is nothing but you, at least you can keep your family and friends around forever!!!!! After all, if it was all imagined by you, you'd be the one dictating the terms and making the rules for how it all happens!!!! Therefore it stands to reason you'd use your powers to prevent your loved ones and friends from ever aging, suffering from disease or dying!!!!!! But I guarantee you that no matter how hard you try to stop it, they'll age!!!!! You could also potentially make yourself ridiculously rich if all this is just imagined, or a dream!!!

That is a really good way of putting it! 

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@STEJ Yes, I see what you mean, it's just difficult to process. But it's not really a case of whether I am imagining everything, rather what if this is all a dream. When you dream at night, you don't dictate what happens, and characters come and go. It just scares me to think that my loved ones might not be real, rather just made up characters in a dream or something that I can't prove otherwise. I get occassional moments of clarity but my stomach just sinks every time it pops back into my head. It really is like my mind has already accepted that that is the case. Without debate, it's just gone to accepting nothing is real and I find it hugely depressing. I'm trying to stay occupied, it's just difficult to feel positive.

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3 hours ago, STEJ said:

Even if it is a dream, what if you wake up to something even better, whilst retaining all the good things you have now??/

The only good I have now is the wonderful people I have in my life. I'm very lucky in that regards. The possibility that they are an illusion or something breaks my heart and is very scary.

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20 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

The only good I have now is the wonderful people I have in my life. I'm very lucky in that regards. The possibility that they are an illusion or something breaks my heart and is very scary.

I suffered from this problem a lot too, particularly when I was younger. At the core of all this is doubt. OCD is a disorder that feeds on doubt and one thing you can never truly prove is that your reality truly exists, it is impossible. You need to understand that there will always be uncertainty and learn to accept it, not to dwell on it or ruminate. You have to allow yourself to think that perhaps the world isn't real and this is okay. I know it's hard to do, but at the moment this idea seems terrible to you, which is causing your mind to stay stuck on it. If you accept the possibility of it, you'll reduce its threat value and it'll stop bothering you as much.

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10 hours ago, malina said:

I suffered from this problem a lot too, particularly when I was younger. At the core of all this is doubt. OCD is a disorder that feeds on doubt and one thing you can never truly prove is that your reality truly exists, it is impossible. You need to understand that there will always be uncertainty and learn to accept it, not to dwell on it or ruminate. You have to allow yourself to think that perhaps the world isn't real and this is okay. I know it's hard to do, but at the moment this idea seems terrible to you, which is causing your mind to stay stuck on it. If you accept the possibility of it, you'll reduce its threat value and it'll stop bothering you as much.

Firstly, thank you for posting back to me. I always appreciate the help and support I get here. I try and return the favours sometimes, but sometimes I think how can anyone take me seriously when I am always posting about my own issues. It is like I know what to do but it is so difficult to apply it to myself. I'm sorry you had to go through the same thing. It really is awful. Just questioning absolutely everything. And it is so difficult to try and accept that people might be a simulation. I guess I just have to live like I normally would and not get into the debate it is just so hard!

The thing is, I had this worry around 6 months ago, but it wasn't as intense as this. And then it went away and I thought it was ridiculous. I remember posting to someone on here and telling them what to do. It didn't bother me. Now it is back though and I feel like I have a cloud hanging over my head constantly.

I'm back at work today so I will try and stay occupied and just live as normally as I can.

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Really struggling tonight. Just sat here feeling very sick. My head is trying to get me to work it out. I'm actually shaking with anxiety. Trying to stay calm and just do things to take my mind off it. Is this normal for an OCD sufferer? I really don't know. Sometimes I just can't be bothered with this. I won't ever know whether my life is just a simulation and whether people are real, how will I ever get past it?>

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1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

Trying to stay calm and just do things to take my mind off it. Is this normal for an OCD sufferer?

Yes, it's normal. Sometimes in the past, I've hoped it'd cure my OCD if I just tried to take everything slowly, and eliminate all feelings of urgency online. This led to a period of doing almost nothing each day except watching youtube videos, and my anxiety levels gradually crept up to the point where even watching the videos got hard, and I knew something had to change!!!!

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9 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I won't ever know whether my life is just a simulation and whether people are real, how will I ever get past it?

You go on living your life and not responding to the compulsions. You give yourself permission to not try and solve this question (which is good because you can't).  Take it one step at a time and do your best to move in the right direction. 

 

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11 hours ago, dksea said:

You go on living your life and not responding to the compulsions. You give yourself permission to not try and solve this question (which is good because you can't).  Take it one step at a time and do your best to move in the right direction. 

 

I'm trying my best to just carry on as I normally would. I just seem to have a constant uneasiness in my stomach and a darkness lingering over my head like something isn't right. Is that normal with OCD issues? Can it really get better, or to a point where I don't believe it? Why does my head immediately go to "it must be true!".

It really seems that as soon as things start going right in my life, my mind decides that happiness is not allowed.

And the thing is, I really have nobody to talk to. The times I have in the past, people just think I am crazy.

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6 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Why does my head immediately go to "it must be true!".

It sounds like you might be trying too hard to find evidence to confirm your suspicions that everything around you isn't real!!!! Maybe it'll bring more of a sense of happiness and ease in your life if you search really hard for proof that everything around you IS REAL instead!!!! After all, if you're TRULY DETERMINED, your mind will find evidence to support, or attack any theory, won't it???? Think of all the outrageous stories in courtrooms that lawyers concoct in order to try and win their cases and make themselves rich!!!!!

 

6 hours ago, Paul92 said:

It really seems that as soon as things start going right in my life, my mind decides that happiness is not allowed.

I know exactly how you feel. Back when I used to play online Chess, sometimes I'd be ABSOLUTELY THRILLED TO BITS after beating an opponent ranked at a level I'd never won against before, but IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD, I'd be stricken with panic, and rushing to thank God before I could accidentally have a bad thought towards Him, or accidentally thank the evil angel who betrayed God instead!!!!! My fear was that if I accidentally thought the latter two things first, instead of thanking God first, then it'd hurt God's feelings, and that I'd come off as a HUGE INGRATE for it!!!!!! It's the same panic whenever I get an extra subscriber on youtube, or even when I get extra views or likes to my videos!!!! As you can imagine, this makes it INCREDIBLY HARD for me to grow my channel, and make anything out of myself in life!!!!!! That's why sometimes I feel like I'm just destined for a life of mediocrity and failure, what with how Christianity alludes to the fact that it's often evil, unscrupulous people who end up succeeding massively in life these days!!!! You only have to look at the celebrity scene, and all these elite rich paedophiles in Hollywood to see this!!!!!!! And yet, people in my life have always perpetrated the idea that if you don't have a good job and a good car, YOU'RE A NOBODY!!!!! And so that's why I still always feel bad about being a failure. ;*(

 

6 hours ago, Paul92 said:

And the thing is, I really have nobody to talk to. The times I have in the past, people just think I am crazy.

Personally, I feel like that's a BIG PART of the problem. YOU FEEL TOO ALONE AND ISOLATED, and therefore you're more apprehensive about truly expressing yourself and your fears!! Believe me, sometimes I think people will probably see me as a raving loony from some of the things I say online, but I've gotten to the point where I'm too depressed to care!!!!

Edited by STEJ
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15 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I just seem to have a constant uneasiness in my stomach and a darkness lingering over my head like something isn't right. Is that normal with OCD issues?

Yep, totally normal for OCD.  I get the same way.  The temptation is to try and dwell on this feeling and "solve" it.  I totally understand that urge.  But in my experience, the less work you put in to solving it, and when you just accept "ok, I feel crummy right now", you feel better faster.  Its hard at first, because you are working against your previous learned behavior, but like any habit you can unbreak it.
 

15 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Can it really get better, or to a point where I don't believe it?

It has for me, and millions of other OCD sufferers.  We don't recommend things like CBT because it worked for one or two of us, but because the clinical evidence is there to show it works broadly.  For example,  I went through a period in my early 20s where I worried about being gay.  I'm in my late 30's now, its been ages since I worried about that.  Even if the thought pops up these days I think "so what" and move on.  Same with throwing up (especially in public).  I barely think about it anymore, and when I do, its a minor annoyance at best.  I still get some of the same intrusive "what if thoughts" but I don't dwell on them anymore. Even the times where they might make me feel a little anxiety, I can shrug it off pretty easily and go on about my day.  It took time and effort, therapy and medication, for me to get to this point, but I got there.

 

16 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Why does my head immediately go to "it must be true!".

Two factors are at play here, your brain's response to the lack of an "OK" signal, and your compulsive behavior reinforcing a fear.

In the first case, your brain normally expects that if it has a "bad" feeling, that you'll do something about it to get to the "OK" signal.  If you don't get the "OK" signal then that means you are still in danger and you should remain anxious/afraid/distressed.  Thats how the brain is supposed to work, to keep us out of danger right?  Well the problem with OCD is that it makes that "OK" signal process kinda buggy. Even when the conditions of being "OK" are there, the OCD prevents the signal from happening.  So you aren't getting the "OK" signal you are expecting, even though everything OK, so your brain keeps thinking something must be wrong.  Because thats how its SUPPOSED to work (but thanks to OCD, doesn't always).  So your brain is looking for a problem, looking for something to be wrong to explain why its still in "not OK" mode. So when you come up with a "what if" scenario your brain is ready to accept it, because that would explain why its feeling "not ok".

So why do you keep having the same particular thought/fear come up?  Because your compulsions have taught you that THIS fear is important and worth worrying about, so you are more likely to think about it.  Every time you do the compulsion, your adding one point to your brains virtual tally board of which things to think about most.  The more you do something, the more you think about it.  The more important it becomes.  Thats true for both good AND bad things.  The less you pay attention to something, the less important it becomes, the more likely you are to forget about it.  Imagine the following two scenarios.  I give you a poem.  I let you read it once.  Then I wait a month.  Then I ask you to write down the poem.  You probably won't remember it.  You've probably forgotten all about it.  It wasn't important, so why would you remember it.  Ok, now imagine I give you the poem and make you read it once every day for a whole year.  Then I wait a month.  Then I ask you to write it down.  You'll probably be able to do it without any trouble.  You've seen it over, and over, and over.  Compulsions are like reading the poem again and again and again.  They reinforce the thought, they reinforce the worry.  

So you've got your brain primed to look for an explanation why you are feeling bad and you've also primed it to think a certain thought is very VERY important.  Your brain puts A and B together and so you think that your fear "must be true" because thats what you have taught your brain to think. 

You know your brain is malfunctioning because of the OCD.  So you have to start treating these messages as faulty, as false alarms.  You have to CHOOSE to react differently than how youf feel like you are supposed to.  A smoker doesn't stop smoking because they stop wanting a cigarette, they have to force themselves not to respond to the desire to have a cigarette, THEN the desire goes away over time.  Similarly an OCD sufferer doesn't stop ruminating or worrying because they stop having intrusive thoughts, they have to force themselves not to respond to the desire to do compulsions, THEN the intrusive thoughts importance and their anxiety goes away over time.

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@dksea As always, thank you for taking the time to post that. You've explained it pretty well. I've had OCD for almost 10 years (well, it's 10 years or so since I started recognising the behaviour and it got worse), and I still feel like I am learning new things all the time.

As you appreciate it is very difficult to label something as faulty or just OCD when the fear is so powerful.

I've taken steps for sure. I no longer Google things looking for answers. I would honestly sit for days/weeks/months even, every single day looking around on the internet trying to find the right answers to my concerns and doubts. I realise with this one, there is simply not an answer. I haven't Googled it once, or sought any reassurance from the internet. Only posting on here and other forums online that I have used before. Maybe, to an extent, this is reassurance seeking, but I will just stick to this forum now.

Everything what you say makes complete sense, it always does. But my brain just thinks, yes, but I can't prove that even this is not a part of the dream/simulation. And my stomach sinks. It just lingers over me constantly and really is gut wrenching at times.

I guess it is like a leap of faith. To live like people are conscious and real. But it really fills me with anxiety doing that. I know it is my OCD.

I think the hardest thing at the moment is trying to believe that it will get better. Currently I cannot see any way in which I will ever get to a point where I think the whole idea is ridiculous or something. Or that I will ever get back to how I was before.

I was watching a video with Dr Stephen Phillipson about existential OCD. He recommended carrying your fears around on a piece of paper and reading them and reminding yourself you will never get an answer every hour or so. Is that a good thing to do?

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12 hours ago, Paul92 said:

Everything what you say makes complete sense, it always does. But my brain just thinks, yes, but I can't prove that even this is not a part of the dream/simulation. And my stomach sinks. It just lingers over me constantly and really is gut wrenching at times.

I guess it is like a leap of faith. To live like people are conscious and real. But it really fills me with anxiety doing that. I know it is my OCD.

Yep, I completely understand that, I've been there before and its awful.  You definitely don't want to feel the anxiety the doubt the sadness, but you have to keep in mind, you have to remind yourself, that giving in to the compulsions is only going to prolong that anxiety, doubt, sadness, etc.  You have to practice delayed gratification in a sense.  You have to accept that you will feel crappy NOW in order to not feel more crappy later. You have to accept that doubt is part of life. 

 

12 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I was watching a video with Dr Stephen Phillipson about existential OCD. He recommended carrying your fears around on a piece of paper and reading them and reminding yourself you will never get an answer every hour or so. Is that a good thing to do?

I haven't tried that particular therapy technique before, but if Dr. Phillipson is well versed in OCD and CBT and he recommends it as a kind of CBT therapy, it sounds reasonable to me. So long as you avoid using it as a compulsion, turning to the paper constantly any time you have a bad thought.  If you do it on a schedule, and ONLY on a schedule I can see how it might be a useful technique to help re-train your brain not to treat these thoughts as knowable.  It sounds to me like this is a kind of ERP, exposing yourself to the thoughts on a scheduled basis and pushing back on the idea of certainty.

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I have battled the solipsism for a while too it’s hard to deal with but I tell myself that if life was only about one person why does punishment exist and why can’t we do what we want and be rich? Often this helps me if I think of this and think how it takes more to believe life isn’t real than it takes to believe it is 

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14 hours ago, Phil19 said:

I have battled the solipsism for a while too it’s hard to deal with but I tell myself that if life was only about one person why does punishment exist and why can’t we do what we want and be rich? Often this helps me if I think of this and think how it takes more to believe life isn’t real than it takes to believe it is 

I see what you're saying but does seem like reassurance seeking. 

 

@dkseaHave you had a theme similar to mine before then?

Thanks you again for your post. I really appreciate it as always. 

I've done everything I can to avoid seeking assurance. I've actually gotten better at it when it comes to things that seem to attack the girl I am seeing. I don't confess and I force myself immediately to just carry on as normal. Then I end up just forgetting about stuff. 

This one is much harder. I haven't Googled anything or looked around on the Internet. And if I catch myself ruminating I try and just focus on something else. I don't say oh it's OCD or anything, I just try and keep busy. Sometimes I might say "could be true". But my main technique seems to be just avoiding getting into thinking about it. 

Can't say as though I feel any better though. God knows how long this might go on for. 

 

Thanks again everyone 

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