how to define my contamination fears

[BelAnna]

1 hour ago, olb said:

Could it be possible that labelling the car as contaminated was mental contamination , but then subsequently anything inside/in contact with the car becomes contaminated via contact contamination?

If it was presently mental contamination then I would feel contaminated by just thinking of the car, but this doesn’t happen. I feel nothing anymore just thinking of that. It’s only when I’m near objects/items that were inside the car I get anxious.

on the other hand, the items look clean but few dirty which makes it sound like mental rather than contact contamination? 

Hi Olb,

It's all emotional/mental contamination because there's no substance involved. That is unless you are worried about germs on the carpet or something- then that would be contact contamination.

 

[olb]

Thanks belanna I just get confused sometimes as it sounded like mental contamination was just thinking about something and feeling contaminated , which could happen anywhere. Whereas my mental contamination is projected onto items my mind knows had contact with the car. 

[PolarBear]

Truth be told, I think you are spending far too much time and energy on trying to classify your OCD and thoroughly not enough time working on recovery.

It is common for newbies to want to talk about POCD, ROCD, contamination OCD, false memory OCD, real life OCD, mental contamination, semen contamination, cheating OCD and on and on, but the type/theme doesn't matter because it's all OCD. All types of OCD manifest in the same way and all types of OCD are treated the same way.

[olb]

Do you suggest ERP for all types? The mental contamination book says ERP is moderately successful but that mental contamination often requires cognitive therapy first.

[PolarBear]

I think all types of OCD require cognitive therapy first. Therapy for all types of OCD should include an exploration of the types of compulsions done. Therapy should include a component of slowing down and eliminating compulsions. And therapy should include ERP.

Edited July 16, 2021 by PolarBear

[olb]

What I find a little confusing is that my mental contamination isn’t like images in my mind it’s actual physical  objects that I label as contaminated. 
it’s not like I can sit in a neutral place and think about something and feel contaminated.

it’s only with proximity to some objects associated/were in the car that I sense contamination, then it operates like contact contamination. 
if I touch something contaminated with my hands then I can usually wash them once or twice and be ok.

however the object still remains contaminated and can’t be cleaned. 
I am wondering if it’s a fear of death I am dealing with. Or at least mental death/ death of the ego. Like if I give up on the compulsions and become contaminated then I die. Not physically of course but mentally. 
maybe I fear losing my sense of identity, my self. 
I can’t seem to process the history of me with ‘that’ car and put it to bed. I can’t seem to accept it. The only way I have managed to carry on is avoidance of anything associated with it. Thoughts don’t bother me but physical items associated with the car are the threat. 
But if the items aren’t actually dirty then where is the threat. Is it in my head? My minds only way to deal with the problem was to say ‘ you hated the car yet you didn’t do anything to escape the situation except moan about it to people and get annoyed. You could have left the job, got another, but you failed you were weak you kept your feelings in and didn’t express them, you suppressed your feelings, you stayed in that job until the company decided to change the car, you weren’t the one in control, you lost you failed, you got another car but it was too late because the contamination had begun. All the computers and parts you had to keep revisiting in the new car were contaminated by the old car. Because you didn’t take action you decided the way the car made you feel driving it then it must also infect anything else that was in it. The car made you feel angry depressed etc and That means it also contaminated inanimate objects that were inside it. ‘

[PolarBear]

The above is your OCD talking. It is wtitten evidence of what isbgoing on in your head. You are analyzing your thoughts and your overall OCD, trying to figure it out. This has been going on for a while. It is a compulsion and is not going to solve anything.

Put away the book on mental contamination. You don't need it. You have OCD and that's good enough. All types of OCD are treated the same way.  Concentrate on recovery, not pointlessly analyzing your version of the disorder.

[snowbear]

59 minutes ago, olb said:

I can’t seem to process the history of me with ‘that’ car and put it to bed. I can’t seem to accept it.

Spot on. There's the root of your OCD. However,

Accept it

Forgive yourself (for not taking action at the time)

And let it go

is exactly what you have to do.

1 hour ago, olb said:

The car made you feel angry depressed etc and That means it also contaminated inanimate objects that were inside it.

The other thing you have to get your head around is

The car was never contaminated. Nor was anything that came in contact with it.

The contamination you feel is your emotion projected onto the car/objects.

To overcome it you have to

Accept this is the way you dealt with negative emotions in the past

Learn how to deal with your negative emotions without using ideas of 'contamination'

Change the way you think of the car, the past, and the contamination.

Let it go.

You'll probably struggle with the idea of letting it go until you forgive yourself.

Every time you beat yourself up with unforgiving thoughts (about what you should have done, what you didn't do, how that makes you weak/ a failure etc) you're strengthening and maintaining your belief that the contamination is real.

Forgive. Forgive. Forgive.

It's the only way forward.

 

[PolarBear]

I fully agree with snowbear. As I wrote in my book, forgiving myself was a crucial turning point in my recovery.

[olb]

Thanks again for the posts and i am grateful for all your help.

the one thing I don’t know if I can really accept in the past of present is the car itself. 
I never liked it in the first place , it was just the idea of a new car that was appealing for a brief moment.

its just such a awful looking thing in my eyes, old fashioned, big, monstrosity of a design, old mans car. 
not the car of a young person doing a job of IT technician.

in the present day if I still see one of the same cars still going around I often look away as the longer I look I still can’t consolidate the fact I drove one all those years ago. It really is a strong revulsion I feel. 
I sometimes try to imagine I was somebody who didn’t care much about what car I drove.

But that isn’t really me, I’m not so concerned now I just drive a run of the mill small car, but I still care a little about how things look and are designed.

anyway the car is long gone and I can cope with seeing the occasional one on the road or parked as I’m not forced to touch or get in one.

It would really help if I could change my view on the objects that had been in the car. If I could de contaminate the floor. But every time I think of the floor I see the car as well. Can I break the link to the car or does that only work if I de contaminate the car too ( which I find highly unlikely)?

ive tried to apply new thoughts to the floor and other items such as other people walking on it without a second thought. Or how the floor was only in the car briefly whereas I as a person was in there for days weeks months on end. The fact our bodies re generate fully every 7 years I think helped me and the fact it was my last defence and the body being a living thing made me let go of it being contaminated. 
With the barefoot thing it may or may not help that skin rebuilds itself every 4-6 weeks so I hope that idea will help the contamination disappear. 
anyway thanks for listening i know my mind is a confusing place but I still live in hope I guess .

[PolarBear]

You have distorted thinking. You talk about decontaminating the car and the flooring. What we have been trying to tell you is none of them were ever contaminated in the first place.

You have illogically connected a negative feeling to an inanimate object. That's what you need yo work on.

[olb]

Thanks so it’s like thought object fusion , do you know the process to work on it? 

[olb]

Just an example today I’m struggling with the heat , the fact I have a property to sell which needs a lot of work, still living at parents at nearly 40 and having to go to work which has drained me doing 6 days a week. Then on top thoughts that one of my feet is contaminated, that I won’t enjoy running again, that I’ve failed/lost by stepping on that floor. 
And competing thoughts saying my foot is clean it’s been washed and also my mother has walked on the floor a lot barefoot yesterday but she doesn’t have the contaminating thoughts as she didn’t get infected by the car.

then I try and draw a line under the past and let the mind do what it wants and ignore it.

[PolarBear]

Start saying to yourself, the car never was contaminated. My reaction to the car was overblown. It was just a car.

Then you can start walking across that floor (exposure) and not doing compulsions like washing your feet or socks (response prevention).

[olb]

Thanks that sounds so straightforward, I’ll start saying it’s not contaminated and see how it goes. 
I wasn’t doing too bad before the ‘slip up’ of stepping on the floor barefoot when I was called into the room. Ever since I haven’t been able to shake the thoughts that my foots now contaminated and I’ve failed after many years of avoidance. This is accompanied by a sinking feeling which totally makes me feel my life is ruined. it’s like I’ve dug up thoughts I’d buried, like they were hidden away and not bothering me but now I’ve disturbed them.

when the thoughts come up on and off throughout the day sometimes I ignore them and almost laugh at the persistence. Other times I try to question them and re appraise them but I can never come up with a good enough appraisal as I just can’t accept the thought of the car. So maybe the best way is ignoring them but that doesn’t really solve the contamination problem and what happens when I come in contact with the floor or other items in future.

[snowbear]

3 minutes ago, olb said:

Other times I try to question them and re appraise them

Questioning and reappraising is the way to go.

Quote

but I can never come up with a good enough appraisal as I just can’t accept the thought of the car.

No.   What you're struggling to accept is your self-image.

You're basing how you see yourself now on how you behaved over one incident many years ago.

What is it you can't accept exactly? Put it into words. You might find it helpful to write it down so you can read it over.

Whether you're aware of it or not you're telling yourself some story about this over and over. 'I can't accept the car because that would mean...' and then you give a reason.

Whatever meaning you're giving it is what's keeping you stuck.

 

Quote

maybe the best way is ignoring them but that doesn’t really solve the contamination problem and what happens when I come in contact with the floor or other items in future.

 No.   You've buried and ignored your feelings over this for years. It hasn't worked. It will never work.

The only thing that will work is to confront your feelings and change the meaning you give to your action/ non-action in the past.

Notice, in that sentence I didn't mention your feelings towards the car. Only your feelings about how you acted.

This is about you, your self-image, and the self-worth you've tied up in that image. It has nothing to do with the car.

What you have to accept is

1. How you acted in the past doesn't define your present self in any way. You can safely just let it go.

2. How you define yourself now is entirely up to you. Whether you're conscious of it or not, the car/ contamination is acting as a comforting excuse not to have to make that self-appraisal.

Avoidance of self-examination is always based on fear of what you might find.

Avoidance of choosing how you want to redefine yourself in the present is always based on a fear you might not be able to live up to your self-image.

The barriers to change are underpinned by fear.

Not by what you did or didn't do in the past. Not by what type of car it was. Not by the feeling the car and everything to do with it is contaminated.

So another thing you have to accept..

3. It's ok to be afraid.

But if you allow that fear to control you then you'll stay forever stuck and your life will never improve.

For things to change you have to face your fear.

Only when you're ready to do that will the problem of contaminated floor/objects go away.

[olb]

What if my fear is fear of death? Or at least fear of my sense of self/identity dying? What is the point of life if I’m not allowed to express myself in terms of tastes, what I like and don’t like? It would just be existing. Not sure that’s enough for me.
What if by driving that car for so long my self expression was blocked. the whole time I couldn’t be myself?  Especially at a young age where self image is important.

I used to tell people like customers that the company car was not my choice just so they knew it’s not my taste.

At my age now I realise it’s not that important, or to a lesser extent, but it was back then and I felt violated.

When I get the sinking feeling it’s horrible, like nothing matters, like there’s no future, just an existence. 

I am a naturally curious person and like to learn and apply things I learn in life. I care about what I eat and like to run. I like music and nature. basically I have a survival instinct and want to live. 
My mind though appears to have another side with the ocd stuff and to survive and avoid the sinking feelings I have to do the avoidance. If I make contact with contaminated objects then the anxiety and despair is back instantly.
So yeah it’s definitely related to self image, my identity was damaged and decided the only way to carry on was to disown the car and deny its existence in my past and create contamination so that I keep as far away from it (maybe too far) as possible in the future.

[snowbear]

5 minutes ago, olb said:

What if my fear is fear of death? Or at least fear of my sense of self/identity dying? What is the point of life if I’m not allowed to express myself in terms of tastes, what I like and don’t like? It would just be existing. Not sure that’s enough for me.

When I get the sinking feeling it’s horrible, like nothing matters, like there’s no future, just an existence. 

Nobody is stopping you from expressing yourself or your tastes.

In your explanation to yourself about why you can't let this go you've omitted a time frame. The present is NOT the past. Don't treat it as if it is.

The car wasn't your taste and you're angry that you didn't express yourself back then.

None of us can change the past. But staying angry in the present isn't helping.

So what can you do in the present?

You can express your tastes (what they were then and what they are now)

You can express your anger about the past.

You can choose how you want to be, how you see yourself, what matters to you, what to spend your energy on.

You can choose to live in the present.

Or, if you want, you can choose to exist in the present, or (in efect) continue to live in the past.

You can't change the past, but you can choose how you want to see yourself and how you want to live in the present time.

24 minutes ago, olb said:

So yeah it’s definitely related to self image, my identity was damaged and I decided the only way to carry on was to disown the car and deny its existence in my past and create contamination so that I keep as far away from it (maybe too far) as possible in the future.

You decided...

so it's not inevitable. It's not unchangeable.

What you decided/ concluded in the past doesn't have to determine how you live for the rest of your life.

Having a damaged self-identity doesn't mean it has to stay damaged for the whole of your life. You can fix it, bring it up to date, reinvent it for the present day.

You're looking at this with blinkers on. As if there's only one possible way to see it, only one possible conclusion to reach.

Cognitive therapy is about helping you realise there are literally hundreds of ways to look at anything in life. It's a free choice. The way you choose to look at things will affect the conclusion you reach and the feelings you experience about those things.

You're not compelled to choose the way you chose in the past.

31 minutes ago, olb said:

I am a naturally curious person and like to learn and apply things I learn in life.

 Great! If that's true then you should be curious about trying new things. Trying new ways of looking at the past. Experimenting with your feelings.

So...  

 Why is your approach to the car incident so rigid? You seem unwilling to apply a different approach even though you've now you've learned about how OCD works and how it's possible to change.

Forgive me, but that's like saying 'I'm an outgoing, bubbly extrovert ...except at parties '

 

[olb]

Well the mind really doesn’t want to let go, it is torturing me, eating away at me. 
after years of avoiding direct contact with the ‘contaminated’ floor, as I mentioned in the post I stepped on it barefoot with my right foot after being called in the room.

now it’s like I’ve reactivated old buried feelings from the past, as a contact was made via the contaminated floor to the car I reviled.

my mood has lowered and hope for the future has lessened. I have tried to console myself that other people step on the floor , but as they never had a problem with the car it doesn’t enter their awareness.

also how I’ve had a few baths and many showers since this event that physically my foot I know should be clean , but my mind keeps bringing my awareness to the foot and that it’s been contaminated.

is there any way to mentally uncontaminate my foot? Any way to break the contamination link between the car and items that had been in it? 
id been doing ok until recently. Forgot just how strong the pain inside is relating to the car. 
I am hoping I will feel better in future. Time usually heals. I am going swimming tomorrow so will be barefoot amongst other people and in the water . Maybe this will help neutralise the feelings. 
a lot of it feels personal to me like I’m the only one who’s had the pain relating to the car. It’s not like a spider fear where many people have had it. It’s unique to me which is why I think I can’t get resolution.

the only resolution appears to be time and waiting for the acute thoughts to die away and be less in my awareness.

my other time related hope is the thought that skin rebuilds itself every 4-6 weeks so in a couple of weeks the skin that touched the floor would have been replaced.

I am aware that all I am saying is still avoidance and not resolving the contact with contamination but I just can’t see a resolution to the thoughts , I can’t see me ever seeing the objects as not contaminated. The feelings are too embedded.

[PolarBear]

A good therapist can help you. No doubt you are doing loads of compulsions around this, which are not alleviating your symptoms but are causing you to become even more stuck.

There are things you can do to reverse this.

[BelAnna]

1 hour ago, olb said:

Well the mind really doesn’t want to let go, it is torturing me, eating away at me. 
after years of avoiding direct contact with the ‘contaminated’ floor, as I mentioned in the post I stepped on it barefoot with my right foot after being called in the room.

now it’s like I’ve reactivated old buried feelings from the past, as a contact was made via the contaminated floor to the car I reviled.

my mood has lowered and hope for the future has lessened. I have tried to console myself that other people step on the floor , but as they never had a problem with the car it doesn’t enter their awareness.

also how I’ve had a few baths and many showers since this event that physically my foot I know should be clean , but my mind keeps bringing my awareness to the foot and that it’s been contaminated.

is there any way to mentally uncontaminate my foot? Any way to break the contamination link between the car and items that had been in it? 
id been doing ok until recently. Forgot just how strong the pain inside is relating to the car. 
I am hoping I will feel better in future. Time usually heals. I am going swimming tomorrow so will be barefoot amongst other people and in the water . Maybe this will help neutralise the feelings. 
a lot of it feels personal to me like I’m the only one who’s had the pain relating to the car. It’s not like a spider fear where many people have had it. It’s unique to me which is why I think I can’t get resolution.

the only resolution appears to be time and waiting for the acute thoughts to die away and be less in my awareness.

my other time related hope is the thought that skin rebuilds itself every 4-6 weeks so in a couple of weeks the skin that touched the floor would have been replaced.

I am aware that all I am saying is still avoidance and not resolving the contact with contamination but I just can’t see a resolution to the thoughts , I can’t see me ever seeing the objects as not contaminated. The feelings are too embedded.

Well done for stepping on the floor! that's a great first step.

The more you expose yourself to these situations, the easier it will become and the less distressed you will feel.

[olb]

Polar, I’m not really doing any extra compulsions, just washing my feet the same way as before in the shower. And continuing the avoidance which I was so used to before the slip up. 
I just am hyper aware of the contact that was made with my foot and how the awful feelings have come flooding back. 
belanna, thanks but I wish I hadn’t. I didn’t realise I’d feel like this, it’s really affected my mood. Sometimes I have the thought of going in the room stepping on the floor and crying but I worry I’ll regret it. As I won’t be able to deal with the contamination. But part of me thinks crying might help. 
this is why I can’t drink alcohol as I need to be in control and vigilant. 
I am trying to be the observer of my mind and not let thoughts take over . I walked for hours today and tried to resolve some issues but there doesn’t seem to be a solution. 
it wasn’t long ago I would go running but now I feel like I won’t enjoy it until I can feel better about my foot. 
it wasn’t long ago I was researching into pensions/investments , but now none of that seems important as the last few weeks has made me think none of that matters . 
 

[PolarBear]

So, you just listed a bunch of compulsions you do.

Avoiding the floor.

Not drinking alcohol so you won't lose control and do something normal like walk on the floor.

Walked for hours trying to resolve issues. What thiscreally means is ruminating, a big compulsion.

Avoiding running.

Avoiding investments. 

Continuing to say there is contamination.

All of the above are compulsions and they are all keeping you stuck.

[snowbear]

5 hours ago, olb said:

is there any way to mentally uncontaminate my foot? Any way to break the contamination link between the car and items that had been in it? 

Yes.   Happily there is.

But before I tell you how... first let's look at what won't work.

5 hours ago, olb said:

 I am hoping I will feel better in future. Time usually heals.

I am going swimming tomorrow so will be barefoot amongst other people and in the water . Maybe this will help neutralise the feelings.

the only resolution appears to be time and waiting for the acute thoughts to die away and be less in my awareness.

my other time related hope is the thought that skin rebuilds itself every 4-6 weeks so in a couple of weeks the skin that touched the floor would have been replaced.

I am aware that all I am saying is still avoidance and not resolving the contact with contamination but I just can’t see a resolution to the thoughts , I can’t see me ever seeing the objects as not contaminated. The feelings are too embedded.

As you're aware, avoidance and neutralising compulsions don't work.   Neither does wishful thinking that time will heal if you ignore the problem.

5 hours ago, olb said:

other people step on the floor , but as they never had a problem with the car it doesn’t enter their awareness.

my mood has lowered and hope for the future has lessened.

 

These aspects are open to change with cognitive therapy. Tackling these will work.

The most important change you need to make is the meaning you give to the car/ floor and

the meaning you give to your feelings.

At the moment the meaning you've given the car is  ' It says I'm a particular kind of person' and you don't want to be (or be seen as) that kind of person.

Fact: The car says nothing at all about you as a person.

What you're doing is making a personal interpretation and treating that as if it was fact. It's not. Interpretastion is always open to change.

We constantly update our image of the world (our interpretation) minute to minute and day to day as we gather new experiences and new information.

With the car you've developed a blind spot. Your interpretation has got stuck exactly where it was however many years ago. Instead of allowing hindsight to clarify your view, you're rigidly sticking to your original idea, blindfold on, ear plugs rammed in hard.

If you want to make progress you need to adjust  and update your interpretation to something closer to reality and accept the type of car you drove says nothing about you. It never did. It's ok that you didn't realise that back then, but now you're older and wiser and can allow yourself to review the past with an open mind.

An open mind is able to distinguish past from present.

You're not still driving the car. It's gone, out of your life. Let it go. Shift the feelings you have towards the car from 'present' (important in the here and now) to 'past' (was once important to you but is no longer relevant to your day to day life.)

You already realise other people don't see the floor as contaminated, you've just not made the connection that the reason it's safe to them is because they have a different interpretation.

The interpretation you put on things defines the consequences that follow.

Other people interpret the car as irrelevant to the floor and the consequence of that is they are free to get on with normal life.

You interpret the floor and car as linked and the consequence of that is years of avoidance, cleaning and misery.

So change your interpretation. File away your thoughts and feelings about the car as 'past' instead of interpreting them as relevant in the present.

 

The second adjustment you need to make is how you interpret your feelings.

Currently you're telling yourself 'My feelings towards the car mean it is contaminated.'

Fact:  your contamination fears are just an expression of your feelings.

You don't have to stick with that interpretation. You're free to update it any time you like. Find a different way to express yourself.

Still hate the idea of the car? Fine. Verbalise it. Swear! Write down in words how much you hated it. Get a punch bag and take out your hatred on that. Whatever you like. Anything is an improvement on the old method of 'it feels contaminated' and all the avoidance, cleaning and misery that follows as a consequence of choosing that way of dealing with your feelings.

Quote

my mood has lowered and hope for the future has lessened.

Because you've chosen the interpretation 'I feel contaminated and that is sad/ demoralising. Planning for the future is pointless.'

Fact: The car / floor do not have the power to make you feel sad or hopeless.

You get to choose why you feel as you do. Change the 'why' and you change your feelings.

'I feel angry, sad, demoralised because of what happened all those years ago.

Result :

'I recognise the past is gone and my feelings about the car aren't relevant in the present. I choose to feel good about myself. I allow myself to feel hopeful in spite of having this experience in my past.'

Result:

The meaning you put on things defines the outcome. You choose the meaning, you control the result.

[olb]

Thanks I have read through all the posts , it just feels almost impossible to change any of my interpretations/ appraisals which are so hard wired.

as mentalchecker suggested on another post I am wondering if the only way for me is stop engaging with the thoughts. Like just laugh at myself for having the same repetitive thoughts, like saying ‘oh no not another thought about the car or anything contaminated from it’ then just not let it proceed. 
every time I try to reason, work on, resolve the instructive thoughts it seems like I just hit a wall. And by allowing the debate, I keep the problem In my awareness and it keeps coming back.