Crass OCD Comments

[Guest orange socks]

mmm total respect to gordon - he does deserve praise - i totally agree (whether he has a problem or not- respect anyway )

absolute respect to anyone holding down even a simple job - let alone one as stressful as his must be - complete respect

i couldnt even hold down a job screwing lids on tooth paste - let alone running the country

i think people with ocd specifically - (not the other disorders mentioned in the article) but people with ocd specifically are capable in most cases of making sound decisions - its just that they doubt their ability to

just going back to say the jury duty illustration ....if i was ever called to serve on the jury , i would probably be ok at it ....i'm not racist , predudice, sexist etc - i have an open mind .....i kinda have a lot of common sense - so i would probably be ok at it

but........and its a big but .....for the rest of my life i would worry about the decision i made and whether it was the right one, and i know it would make me ill

so therefore i claim that i am incapable of making any decisions and choices

its not that i cant make decisions etc - its that i cant live with the consequence of having made them

for its consequence would be severley detrimental to me - thus rendering me incapable

ohh i'm just waffeling - over tired - please ignore me :blushing:

i do agree with what you have said ashley - gorden does deserve respect

Edited March 1, 2010 by orange socks

[Ashley]

Hayley Martin, shame on you.. I never said he deserved praise per se ... just if he did have an anxiety disorder for getting where he is You give the impression I am supporting him lol.. might do, depending what he replies to my letter. Not sure on his politics, I think he deserves praise for some things, less so for other things. I digress, the editor of the Sunday Times features section called me today, it seems the piece did receive a fair bit of negative criticism and they are running some of those comments in this weeks Times including mine. I hope they leave in the part about Churchill having Depression, that is one of my better media comments :lol:

[Guest orange socks]

:lol: sorry :doh:

i dont know what i write half the time :lol:

[Ashley]

Nice one, I wouldn't expect a reply though and definately not an apology. As well as lacking the knowledge and research of mental health disorders, these people are usually extremely ignorant.

I actually did get a reply, but she simply tried to justify herself, so not an apology. Then later in the week the Times features editor called me and said they had a lot of feedback about the piece and could they use my email as one of those replies in the following Sunday's follow up. The online piece can be read here but more about the politics than anything.

This was her email reply to me.

Dear Ashley Fulwood,

The statement of mine that you quote is, I firmly believe, just a statement of fact, or to be more precise, a statement of the conventional view of medical science today. I have taken an interest in mental illness all my adult life, and spoken frequently to experts in the field and well as reading about the subject over decades. In the last couple of weeks alone I have spoken to a leading psychiatrist and a leading neurologist on such matters, as part of my continuing interest in them.

Of course it is true that mental disorders, when serious, can and do affect people's judgment and behaviour - that is why they are called disorders or illnesses and why sufferers rightly treatment for them, when they are aware of them. MY sentence did not imply that such disorders always affect all people's judgment and behaviour, just that they can and do. Fortunately many people have successful outcomes from treatment, but - extremely sadly - not all. MY sentence did not imply that such disorders always affect all people's judgment and behaviour, just that they can and do. There is such an extensive literature on this that I am very surprised by your email.

Yours sincerely

Minette Marrin

[Ashley]

This complaint was sent to the BBC by one of our members.

>{Summary:} OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, was used in the broadcase as

>a matter of mirth/joke/fun

>

>{Complaint:} I have listened to Just a Minute for many years and always

>smile with pleasure when it starts as I am driving home from work on Monday

>nights. However, tonight I was very concerned that one of the panellists -

>Sue Perkins when speaking on the subject of lodgers, said she would pick a

>lodger with ocd - obsessive compulsive disorder, later going on to say

>because they would clean. As the mother of a sufferer of extreme ocd, I

>consider this in very poor taste. Unless a sufferer or family of a

>sufferer, people have no idea of the

>suffering/anguish/depression/despondency etc that ocd causes. It is one of

>the World Health Organisations 10 most debilitating diseases, for some

>sufferers (extreme) it means they cannot leave the house, listen to the

>radio, watch tv, have friends, have holidays, study or have a job, it

>affects their health through obsessions with eating. Knowing what ocd is

>like, it made me very sad and angry to hear it joked of on a normally

>reputable programme.

This was the BBC response.

Dear BBC Listener

Thanks for your e-mail regarding 'Just A Minute'.

I understand that you found some of the content of the programme recently to be offensive. I acknowledge that the references made by Sue Perkins with regards to OCD have upset you and note that you have a child who has this condition. I do appreciate it can be very debilitating.

Regular listeners of 'Just a Minute' will realise that it's not necessarily the content, but the contestant's ability to talk continuously without hesitation, deviation or repetition which listener's find enjoyable. The programme content is never intended to offend or ridicule any group of people, and I regret you felt unhappy with this particular broadcast.

As a public service financed by the Licence Fee, we must provide programmes which cater for the whole range of legitimate tastes in humour today. We believe that there is no single set of standards in this area on which the whole of society can agree, and it's inevitable that programmes which are acceptable to some will occasionally strike others as distasteful. The only realistic and fair approach for us is to ensure that the range of comedy is broad enough for all viewers to feel that they are catered for at least some of the time.

I'd like to assure you that I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also their senior management at Radio 4. It ensures that your points, and all other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact the BBC.

Regards

Sarah Wilson

BBC Complaints

Our member as asked me to take it up, so this was my response.

Dear Sarah,

Just to clarify your comment, you say " we must provide programmes which cater for the whole range of legitimate tastes in humour today". Just to clarify for you OCD is debilitating and disabling as any physical disability, or in some cases people with OCD have taken their own life because the illness cause such distress, so would you make such a flippant excuse of a comment if someone was to ridicule someone with a physical disability or cancer for example? I suspect this is a standard cut and paste reply apart from the first line, but whilst you allow so called comediennes to make such flippant comments about the illness then society will continue to think of OCD as a quirky illness, rather than the life changing illness that we know it is.

Before I proceed with further action I would like your feedback on this comment of yours.

Kind regards,

Ashley Fulwood

Chief-Executive of OCD-UK

Charity Registration Number: 1103210

[Ashley]

In my mind its political correctness gone mad to get huffy about a joke.

Tell that to the mother whose daughter threw herself in front of a train because her OCD got too much Paranoid! I had the mother and family in tears at our last conference, so yes I think it is ok to be a tad sensitive about our OCD. I do laugh and joke about my OCD, but I am allowed to, if someone else laughed about my OCD, that is different.

And as pointed out, why is it not ok to laugh joke about cancer or physical disability but ok to laugh at OCD?

[Guest legend]

Perhaps they could make a joke about myself standing on the edge of a cliff, contemplating jumping

because of the irrational thoughts i was suffering from.

Im sure the listening public would be in stitches.

legend

[Guest legend]

laughing at ocd isnt really that funny is it ? or maybe you feel that its ok to mock an illness

that has cost peoples lives.

So saying that youd have a lodger who has ocd so they kept the place clean isnt really taking the

pee out of the illness, and is really hilarious...... perhaps it is to you, but it isnt to me

or the person who complained.

legend.

[Guest legend]

I think the problem is paranoid is that if you have a corporation as big as the bbc which goes

out around the world, and is allowed to stigmatise and mock ocd then you do have a problem which

needs adressing because its giving out the impression that ocd is all about cleaning and thats

it.. it doesnt really give the full kaboodle of the illness and how it can effect the sufferer.

How would you feel if the bbc started taking the pee out of ms sufferers or a person who is disfigured?

attack the discussion not the person mate

[Guest legend]

So if the bbc took the pee out of people who lose there limbs through a road accident, that would

still not be classed as non malicious and a off the cuff remark, because " its only a joke"

No malicous intent my ass !! if it was said about any other illness, the poop would of hit the fan

legend

[Ashley]

I don't see the problem with jokes about OCD as long as they are no malicious and not aimed at any one person and I agree that educating people if they misquote OCD is fine but at the end of the day a joke is a joke.

Like you I personally am not offended by such jokes, (I think the person making such jokes are pathetic, but that is another issue) but unlike you, I am able to see the distress and anguish OCD causes others and understand why for them such jokes belittling the impact of OCD can cause upset and anguish.

Fine you are not upset, but try and understand how OCD impacts on others, much like the library thread you seem to forget that sometimes.

[Rachie]

I don't find jokes upsetting very often. I don't find jokes about blondes or racial stereotypes funny, either.

I do find bit tiresome when people make lame jokes about OCD. I think someone like Frankie Boyle - who I find hilarious at times - would make a joke about anything, lost limbs, cancer, you name it, nothing would be out of bounds for him. I think I find jokes offensive which are to do with a person's appearance or personality, something more personal. I hate it when people make jokes about someone's size or appearance.

Sometimes intent matters but sometimes I think it's just laziness and not bothering to thing something through.

[Guest legend]

if it wasnt offensive paranoid, why do you think the person complained.

I can see youre point about jokes fully, but i believe that it is wrong for a corporation like the

bbc to mock ocd, whether its lighthearted without intent or not.

And thats why people who do not have a understanding of the illness, for 1. should not make crass

comments on the illness, and i believe its ocduk duty to educate people like the bbc. in realising

what a debilitating illness it is, and it isnt really something you should joke over.

You do offer good advice, and if you feel that the jokes are lighthearted then thats a personal

choice, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

sometimes you have to agree to disagree mate

legend

[Ashley]

Am I not allowed an opinion on this Ashley?

Of course you are, and you have aired your opinion which I actually agree with you in the respect jokes about OCD don't bother me, but the lady who made the BBC complaint is also entitled to her opinion and if a member of our community finds a joke about OCD offensive and asks us to make the complaint on her behalf and I can see her reasoning and understand why she is upset, so we have acted on her behalf.

But, the fact remains it seems ok to joke about OCD, but not about other illness like cancer or HIV, people would be up in arms about such jokes, so I will push this complaint all the way.

[Ashley]

I understand your role in this but would you not agree that OCDUK would be better of teaching the 'letting go' aspect towards jokes in a similar way to the intrusive thoughts?

Which we already do, but do you not think that all the teaching and awareness work our volunteers carry out can be instantly destroyed by ill advised and stereotypical quips in the media like this. Ms Perkins I believe is a very educated woman, so that makes it even more galling.

Do you not think that by comediennes making ill informed stereotypical jokes about OCD then makes some even more afraid and scared to come forward for help for fear of being ridiculed.

I repeat, why is it OK to joke about OCD when we would never ever dream of joking about HIV or Cancer on Radio 4?

[BristolChris]

Hello

Its a tough one for me

I mean if people make jokes about ocd some people may find it offensive.

But probably a lot of jokes someone could find offensive if we say you can't make jokes about ocd then people start to say well you cant make jokes about that.

It's hard to say for me where you draw the line.

Chris

[lucy :)]

After reading a few of the comments on here, I can see that some people are clearly very strong minded about this topic. So, i'll try not to offend anyone further in my response.

Firstly, jokes about OCD are largely due to a huge misconception of the illness. The comments are made by those ignorant enough not to care whether they offend anyone. I'm sure if these said people knew how it felt to be a sufferer, they would stop making such brash comments.

Also, most of the comments made are not with malicious intent. They're probably just to make a 'funny anecdote', or something.

Somebody said before that if the bbc mocked people who'd lost limbs there would be hell on. But i'm sure Heather Mills gets plently of stick and jokes poked at her for having a wooden leg.

Anyway, the point i wanted to make was, that if you take the illness as seriously as this, it'll only seem worse for yourself. I mean, i used to be terrible, really really ill with OCD, but after overcoming that, i can see that if you're strong enough then there's nothing stopping you from beating it. You've got to laugh, to some extent, else you'll make a bigger deal out of it than it is. If you say to yourself "they're right this is a stupid illness and i'm not going to let it get the better of me" then that's half the battle.

I find some OCD jokes funny, mainly because they're so terribly wrong and uneducated that it's just ridiculous. But i do agree, a line should be drawn somewhere. It is a horrible illness nonetheless, and should not be tackled any differently to cancer of HIV.

Sorry if i have caused any offence, i didn't mean to, these are just my opinions (:

lots of love (:

xxxxx

[BristolChris]

Hello

Also these people are not morons for making such comments.

They simply are uneducated.

Chris

[Ashley]

As mentioned before I personally am rarely offended by OCD jokes, but I fully understand why many are, and it is my job with the charity to challenge such offensive material. It would not be accepted with physical disability so why should we accept it with OCD? I am frankly amazed that some feel it is not the role of the Charity to challenge and educate.

And to illustrate the point this was carried by the BBC News website today.

The mother of a five-year-old girl with Down's syndrome has criticised comedian Frankie Boyle for poking fun at people with the condition during a live show. Sharon and Keiron Smith, of Hampshire, were sitting in the front row of the star's sold-out gig in Reading's Hexagon theatre when he made the jokes.

Mrs Smith said she told the comic she was upset but he told her she should have known what to expect at his show. The former Mock The Week panellist refused to comment.

Mrs Smith, who has a daughter called Tanzie, said she was a fan of the comedian's "dry, cutting, sense of humour" during his appearances on the BBC2 show. She told BBC Radio 5 live's Victoria Derbyshire she had been enjoying the live show before Boyle joked about people with Down's syndrome. She said: "He made fun of their parents being old and out of touch, he made fun of the way people with Down's syndrome speak. "He made a number of references to people with Down's syndrome dying early."

She added: "I have to say I had never heard him on Mock the Week poking fun of people with disabilities, it was not something I was aware of he did. "We had obviously heard him making fun of other people, but quite often his humour appears to be clever humour or making a point about something. "OK, he can be cutting, but he will often be using his humour to make a point, whereas the type of jokes he was making about people with Down's syndrome I don't see there was any point being made."

Mrs Smith said that during the whole segment her heart was racing and she wanted to cry but that most of the audience were laughing as far as she was aware. She said Boyle noticed her talking to her husband and asked them what they were saying. She wrote on her blog: "I told him that my five-year-old daughter has Downs syndrome and that I was simply upset at some of his jokes. "He tried to laugh it off - 'Ah, but it's all true isn't it? Everything I have said is true isn't it?' To which I replied 'No, it wasn't'.

"He then went on to say that it was the most excruciating moment of his career but then tried to claw the humour back by saying we had paid to come and see him and what should we expect? "To which I replied that I understood that and that it was my personal problem/upset."

She said Boyle then embarked on an explanation to the audience of his background and why he was "so nasty".

Sheila Heslam, from the Down's Syndrome Association, said: "Clever comedy should challenge the stereotypes and preconceptions that people hold of minority groups.

"Sadly Frankie Boyle's recent routine about people with Down's syndrome was neither clever nor intellectually challenging. "In the year that the Down's Syndrome Association is marking its 40th anniversary we have had cause to reflect on the remarkable achievements of people with Down's syndrome and the positive societal shift in attitudes towards them. "In 1985 we had a very successful nationwide poster campaign, with the strap line 'You say Mongo - We say Down's syndrome - His mates call him David'.

"It is a shame that Frankie Boyle, 25 years later, has not understood this message."

This is a no brainer, why would any comic choose to make fun of someone with Down's? I could use a much stronger word to describe Boyle, but the point is this, the family were right to complain, the BBC was right to run the story but would the BBC or anyone show any interest if we made such a complaint about a comic mocking OCD? No, and why, because our own community can not even get behind such complaints and until we do comics like Boyle and others will continue to mock OCD and other disability.

[Guest legend]

Carry on taking the pee out of ocd, its really ok its just a joke thats all.....im laughing my nuts off

Not so funny when a person feels ashamed to seek help, and finds that people laugh at

something that is very debilitating.....and makes it even more difficult for them to seek help

as its known as the secret illness.

Did i tell you the one about the man who could stop checking doors >> i threw his keys away ...

yep real funny... hahahaha.

Funny being suicidal and losing ya house family and ya life.

stigma stigma stigma

legend

[BristolChris]

Hello

MM But where do we draw the line in what is acceptable to say and what isn't

I don't like jokes about dumb people maybe others don't do we then say those are unacceptable?

Chris

[Guest legend]

Hi chris.

I recently spoke to a guy who has been suffering for over 8 years and was too ashamed to seek

treatment, but after reading my article in the paper it gave him the courage and belief that

he could get better, and he took the leap of faith and has started treatment for his ocd.

When you have an illness that is often known as the secret illness, the last thing you need

is a big corporation allowing fun to be taken out of one of the top 10 most debilitating illness.

It could cause massive implications for those who are afraid to seek help.

Where do you draw the line??? thats a personal opinion i suppose,but i personally feel that in

this case there shouldnt have been a line drawn, it shouldnt have been mocked in the first place.

legend

[BristolChris]

Hello

Part of the problem is that as you say when ocd is trivialized some people don't take it as seriously as it can be.

It that sense it can be worse to make fun of ocd as opposed to a lost limb because that won't become trivialized.

The hard thing is though as I have said where do we draw the line where do we say you can make fun of that but not that.

Chris

[Guest legend]

People find jokes funny about things that don't affect them, when it affects themselves people gett annoyed about it

Thats very true para. but i think the point ashley and myself are trying to make is, that if a person is

offended by a joke about ocd then the charity must have a duty to follow through with the complaint.

And as i said previously, imagine if the guy i talked about had heard this on the radio, do you think that maybe

it could of prolonged him seeking treatment?

since my article was in the paper, funnily enough(not!!) ive had jokey comments made towards

me by friends and customers, just shows you how much we need to do make more awareness

of ocd.

Legend

Edited April 10, 2010 by legend

[BristolChris]

Hello

Yes if you buy a dvd from a comedian like jimmy Carr given all the things he says you can hardly complain about him making an ocd comment.

Some comedy is offensive' don't watch it if it offends you.

For me the problem is the stigma.

Making certain comments may give the impression ocd is not as serous as it is.

Chris