Uncertain about how to be uncertain & recovery is becoming confusing

[PolarBear]

Do you think someone with contamination OCD should screw up their TV settings just because it would make them anxious? Does that make sense?

[saddaniels]

No, I think they should be allowed to have their settings however they want without question. Also though, I think someone with contamination OCD should be allowed to keep clean  (in whatever way they want) as long as they aren't overdoing it & as long as it isn't ruining their day. Basically bringing me back to living the life you want, having things set how you want, etc. just not overdoing compulsions. 

Exposures, in my eyes, throw the whole living life the way you want out the window though, because exposures aren't living life the way you want, a lot of exposures involve doing things backwards in order to move forward & I guess its this bit that really confuses me. Because why wouldn't you just move forward the best you can?

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

So you agree that setting your TV wrong is ridiculous. You agree that someone with contamination OCD shouldn't screw up their TV settings. You agree that your OCD theme has nothing to do with TV settings and doing exposures that involve screwy TV settings is silly. So why don't you set your TV the way it's supposed to be set and leave it alone?

[saddaniels]

I don't know why. I don't know. I think its because if my OCD does come back around to checking TV settings, that would mean I'd have to get used to screwy TV settings again.

 

 

[saddaniels]

The thing is, even if my OCD was centered on TV settings, I still wouldn't be able to get used to screwy TV settings. And basically, I've failed at that exposure & I feel like it all should fall on my shoulders to make myself habituate to wrong settings. But even in the past, I wasn't able to do that. So in my eyes, I've failed. And that really hits hard to the gut.

[saddaniels]

Yes, I was able to stop checking my settings all day, every day. It still doesn't change the fact that those settings I was supposed to be habituating to would still probably cause me the same amount of anxiety if I went back & set them off again.

[PolarBear]

But you shouldn't be habituating to wrong TV settings. We just went through that tonight. You agreed it's ridiculous. You agreed your theme is not about TV settings and therefore no exposures about TV settings need to be done. Go back and read. You have agreed that you shouldn't be doing TV setting exposures. So why would you do them?

[saddaniels]

Because I never habituated to wrong TV settings, even in the past for my exposure. The compulsions died down around my TV settings, yes, but that doesn't change that I'd be anxious to set them off again, right now for example. I never habituated to them, so I was never doing the therapy correctly. It was my fault. I know we aren't getting anywhere, but I feel like unless I master my exposures, like getting used to wrong settings, I'll never get better & I don't deserve to get better. My therapists said that if I wanted to get better I would become comfortable with wrong settings. Well, I'm not comfortable with wrong settings & I don't think I ever will be, so why even try to move forward? According to science, if I can't habituate to wrong settings, I may be a lost cause & I'm starting to believe I am.

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

You're calling an electrician to fix a plumbing problem. You already fully admitted that your problem right now is not TV settings. So why are you trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist?

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist while completely ignoring the big problem that does exist. First you have to stop trying to fix the nonexistent TV setting problem. Then maybe you can concentrate of fixing your real problem.

Amd you're so worried about screwing up your therapy but you ARE screwing up proper therapy every time you change the settings on your TV. Doing so is a compulsion.

[saddaniels]

5 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

So why are you trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist?

 

Because when intrusive thoughts about my TV come back & they will, I'd still have to habituate to wrong settings. Habituating to wrong settings isn't possible. OCD or not. But according to ERP, it is. Its like if you're a normal human being, you can do whatever you want. But if you have OCD, you are required to get used to wrong settings or else you won't get better, based on science. I don't understand ERP. I don't get it. I try and I try and I try, day in, day out but it doen't make sense. ERP is extremely flawed from my research on it, but according to doctors, if you want to get better from OCD, you will do it.

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

Once again, you are trying to fix a problem that DOES NOT EXIST. Fix the problem that does exist.

Time to end this for the night. Take a break. Tomorrow come back and read my replies. Maybe they'll sink in tomorrow.

[saddaniels]

4 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Once again, you are trying to fix a problem that DOES NOT EXIST. Fix the problem that does exist.

Time to end this for the night. Take a break. Tomorrow come back and read my replies. Maybe they'll sink in tomorrow.

I acknowledge that it doesn't exist. But IF it did, I'd be asked to habituate to wrong settings, correct? I don't understand that. Who habituates to their settings being wrong? Who does that? What human being does that?

This isn't a jab at you PolarBear, but at the therapy in general. And I can't let it go because according to science, this is what I would need to do. Get used to having my settings wrong. ERP seems really backwards to me, but I've been diagnosed with severe OCD, so this therapy works for me according to science. It isn't fair. This therapy is torture. I don't want to participate in it at all, but according to science if I want to get better, I will. 

Basically, I'm doomed. I should have never gotten help for my OCD. I should have never listened to my therapists when they said "ERP will make you better if you do it correctly." I should have never admitted to having OCD. I should have kept it a secret from everyone. Living silently with it was better than all of this confusion over ERP. And that's sad, that is really sad. To come forward that you're hurting internally just to be criticized by therapists saying that if I'm not getting used to having settings wrong, something is wrong with ME.

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

I thought behavioral therapy was about learning to manage compulsions. Why do exposures even exist? What is the purpose of exposures? It makes zero sense. Get used to having settings wrong so that in the future, you will choose to have your settings wrong & not have a problem with it? 

My ruminating is out of control & its because this therapy makes zero sense to me. BUT, its apparently the therapy that will save my life if done correctly.

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[taurean]

What will save your experience is to stop ruminating about the therapy. 

You don't need to know, you simply don't. 

All you need do is learn to watch /listen to the settings you like, and resist the compulsion to ruminate. 

Learn to do that and this issue will resolve itself slowly but surely I think. 

Separate issues - Park your OCD bus someplace else away from this issue. 

And when you have cracked this one, boy will it encourage you for dealing with any other themes. 

Forget ruminating about the therapy, exposure and what it is supposed to do. Until you do, stuck you will remain and this thread will no doubt be locked. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by taurean
typo

[saddaniels]

 Get used to having settings wrong so that in the future, you will choose to have your settings wrong & not have a problem with it. 

This is the definition of exposure. 

And since now, currently, I'm anxious to put my settings off, I failed my exposure in the past. The exposure never worked. I did something wrong. If ERP is universal to all OCD themes, I've done something wrong according to the definition of exposure, which is to desensitize & habituate to whatever you are exposed to.

Until I understand what exposures are for, I'm afraid I won't be able to get out of this cycle of rumination.

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[taurean]

9 minutes ago, saddaniels said:

Until I understand what exposures are for, I'm afraid I won't be able to get out of this cycle of rumination 

Not so at all. You do not need to understand it at all and ruminating cannot help you because it never reaches resolution. 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by taurean
typo

[saddaniels]

if the main objective of therapy is to accept uncertainty, why then for exposures are you supposed to set things off & become comfortable with that. That sounds like torture. I understand uncertainty & that checking repeatedly won't change my settings/there is only so much I can control. Exposures though...why am I supposed to become comfortable with wrong settings? I don't understand this. I don't get it. I can't wrap my head around it. I've tried over and over again, but I don't understand. To me, exposures just sound like they are meant to move you backwards 

[saddaniels]

If I don't need to understand ERP at all, how am I supposed to use the therapy to get better when I don't even know what it's for? 

[taurean]

You only need to do what we here have been telling you. 

Agonising over the therapy a propos this obsession is stopping you beating it. 

Do what we say and you can beat this obsession.

Forget therapy, ERP, how's and whys at this time. 

 

[Franklin12]

You are basically saying you wont try to stop your compulsions (ruminating about the meaning of exposures and whether you are doing exposures right) until you fully understand the way exposures work. Using your example of contamination theme, this seems to me like standing at the sink washing your hands, saying that you will only stop washing your hands and start resisting the compulsion to do so once you are sure your hands are 100% clean. 

 

[saddaniels]

Ok, all I want to do is keep my settings the way I like them & resist compulsions. I'm tired of thinking "would a zoom bother someone else?", "should I habituate to this setting?" "Would this make someone else as anxious as it would make me, etc."

 

what therapy style is just resisting compulsions without exposures? What behavior therapy is that?

Edited February 18, 2017 by saddaniels

[Franklin12]

Life is exposure. You could try just living as you want to live, and deal with the spikes in anxiety as and when they come.

[taurean]

5 minutes ago, saddaniels said:

what therapy style is just resisting compulsions without exposures? What behavior therapy is that?

Edited just now by saddaniels

The therapy that I used for years before I even knew I had OCD. A simple acknowledgement that my thoughts were irrational, and refocusing back to the rational and refusing to listen to any nagging that the irrational was true. 

I learned subsequently that this is the cognitive part of therapy. 

[saddaniels]

Seems like that is the only part you would need to get over OCD. So what is the behavior part? Why do exposures exist?

[taurean]

Daniels, let's leave those answers for later eh?

You now know what to do re the settings obsession, so remember that and off you go.