Stuck, again trying to figure out if me wanting things a certain way is OCD

[PolarBear]

OCD can only lock you into a course of action if you let it. See, you've made up your mind about how you want to respond in the future if you do a compulsion. And straight away it's driving you crazy. But move forward.

Personally, I went through CBT and we were not told about any undo functions. Actually, I never heard of it until you raised it. I recovered without doing it so why can't you?

[saddaniels]

So when you did a compulsion, you would leave it how you fixed it, and then just try not to check again?

I guess I could try and stick to my gut about I think I should proceed. Maybe it would help to look at my therapists and all of their techniques on how to beat OCD as merely recommendations not a strict policy. I'm taking them too far & its going to be up to me to pick one I think helps ME the most. Sometimes I forget I'm an individual & what may work for someone else's brain, may not work for me. And of course I find myself being self-negative in "well if they can do it so well, whats wrong with me? what am i not picking up on?"

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

So, a new thought came to my mind today. After setting my TV on the preference that I liked, I was fine, for about 10 seconds & then I get a thought that is loud & annoying saying "Would it make you anxious to put the TV on the setting that you didn't like deliberately?" I'm beginning to feel like this will never end. I know exactly where that thought came from. OCD has taken therapy & squashed it. And even though I know OCD isn't a live being, OCD is mocking my therapist and their words of "What would make you anxious?"

Let it be known that if the therapy were just RP (Response Prevention). I wouldn't have a problem. I was fine watching the TV on my preference. I wasn't trying to correct anything. I acknowledged that I set it once & that was good enough. But no, the stupid exposure thought of "But, would it make you anxious to put the TV on the setting that you don't like deliberately." comes to mind. And you know what, I think its ridiculous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think exposures should only be done if you're caught up in ritualistic behavior. NOT when you start to think to yourself "But, would this make me anxious?"

Yes, putting the TV on the setting I don't like would be uncomfortable, maybe even a bit anxiety provoking. However, if I wasn't engaging in compulsions in the first place & was fine with the way my TV was, I don't see why an exposure should be warranted. 

Maybe I'm avoiding putting the TV on the setting I don't like. Maybe I'm engaging in safety behavior by keeping it on the setting I do like. Maybe I have my likes/needs mixed up. What if I NEED it on the setting I like? Oh no, so many questions  

I'm sick of this intrusive exposure nonsense. Why was it ever named ERP & not just RP? Its much easier for me to stop compulsions on their own, but when I'm thrown in "which exposure would make you anxious?" thats where I fall. Why would anyone in their right mind look for something to make them anxious when they are fine with the way things are? It doesn't make sense. 

Are exposures done only when you are engaging in unhealthy ritualistic behavior , OR are they done when you think of "hmm, would this make me anxious" and so you do it. OR is it a combination of both?

Edited December 20, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

Look, OCD is what is causing you to have these thoughts like, "Would it make you anxious to put the TV on the setting that you didn't like deliberately?" OCD is sending you these intrusive thoughts. And what did you do? You ruminated over it, trying to figure out if the intrusive thought was true. That's where you fell down, right there. You should have left the intrusive thought alone. You should have gone on with your day without ruminating over the thought.

Right now your OCD has nothing to do with the setting on your TV. You choose your setting, that's it. It's over and done with. Move on. But then you get intrusive thoughts that you need to do an exposure. That's where OCD comes into play. And right now you fall for it every time. You instantly start ruminating over it, trying to figure out if the intrusive thought is true and if you should be doing an exposure or not. That's what you need to stop. It doesn't matter if setting your TV to the wrong setting would raise your anxiety level. It's a moot point because that isn't what your OCD is all about.

Put this out of your mind.

[saddaniels]

I will try to stop & put this out of my mind. Its all I can do now. The pestering thoughts of "Well, would it technically make you anxious? Yes? Do it." are going to be hard to fight, but I guess its worth a shot. I mean, what else do I have to lose? I'm already in a pit of anxiety with all of this rumination.

[saddaniels]

Four hours later and the ruminating is still strong. This hurts. It hurts because I was fine watching my TV the way I had it. I wasn't checking the settings. I was content. And then the "what if you set on a setting you didn't like" intrusive thought comes into play. I might actually be anxious setting the TV on the setting I don't like & I was taught over & over again in therapy to face what makes me anxious/whatever brings on discomfort until I habituate. To not put it on the setting I don't like feels strongly like avoidance to me, yet I can partially see as why it would be a compulsion as well, because I was content with the way things were until I got the intrusive thought of "Would it make you anxious to purposefully do this?"

This theme is extremely hard to wrap my head around. Whatever this theme is.

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

I don't believe you were told in therapy that you should blatantly do something just because it would make you anxious. That's ludicrous. 

You're already anxious. The only reason you are ruminating is because you are anxious. 

There is no valid reason to change your TV. Stay the course and get your mind onto other things.

[saddaniels]

I agree.

I get confused because I USED to check my TV settings all the time, but now, I'm able to set it once without the urge to keep checking. I think I've accomplished alot I'm not giving myself credit for. 

Perhaps the rule of thumb that I missed in therapy is that exposures should only be used when you are tiringly doing compulsions around something to get it just right, like I used to do with my TV. What do you think about this?

 

[PolarBear]

Yes, I agree basically. You do not seem to have a problem right now with the settings of things. You are able to choose what you want, implement it and leave it alone. That's normal behavior and does not require any kind of intervention. Why would you? You choose, you set, you go on with your day. You make choices all day long, what to have for breakfast, what to wear, when to brush your teeth, and on and on. They're just normal, everyday activities that have nothing to do with a mental disorder.

[saddaniels]

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if setting the TV on the setting I don't like would still be a trigger for me. Im trying to look at it this way: maybe it'll always be a trigger, but the important part is when I am triggered to practice response prevention, which I'm actually handling well to near perfect around the TV settings. I'm not handling it well around the therapy and trying to get it just right, go figure.

Edited December 22, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

I'm looking at it this way: Say a person with contamination has become able to only wash their hands once after using the bathroom. They technically checked once BUT would they still be anxious to touch the floor if asked to do so on the spot?

This is how I'm feeling about my TV. I'm able to only check once BUT would I be anxious if asked to put the TV on the setting I didn't like? The answer is yes.

 

[PolarBear]

So what if it would make you anxious? That's not cause to do some useless exposure.

Look, you are constantly ruminating over this. You keep coming back to topics that have been discussed repeatedly. It's that ruminating you have to get control over. It's not doing you any good. 

[saddaniels]

2 hours ago, PolarBear said:

So what if it would make you anxious? That's not cause to do some useless exposure.

Can we talk about this, because this is something I cannot wrap my head around? Before, when my OCD was centered around checking the settings endlessly, my therapist had me put my laptop/TV on settings I didn't prefer. We made the screen blurry, we put it on settings I didn't like, etc. I'm confused as to why I did that then, but I shouldn't do that now.  Because, it would still make me anxious to do those things. Wasn't I supposed to habituate to not caring how my TV was set?

I know my view of ERP has been warped & squashed, I'm just trying to find out where so I can get back on track to living my life without OCD taking it over. I'm deeply confused about when an exposure would be useful & then pointless, using the TV settings as an example. When it was useful & then when it just becomes ludicrous, but where does that happen?

Edited December 22, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

I believe it would be nearly pointless to go over this again. We've done so a number times, you say you understand, but then shortly you revert back to the default position and you're back to asking exactly the same questions again. It's the nature of OCD. You're not helping yourself by constantly ruminating over this subject. You need to learn to let it go and not dwell on this. You're stuck and you will remain stuck so long as you keep doing the same compulsions.

You do not understand the nature of your OCD as it presents right now. Maybe I don't either. I'm basing my advice on what you've written here on the forum. You may well have had a problem in the past with the settings of things, wanting things to be set exactly right. In that case, exposures of setting things wrong and dealing with the resulting anxiety would be appropriate. But you have said yourself that that is no longer the problem. You are no longer having repetitive intrusive thoughts about the settings of things. Because of that, there is no reason for you to expose yourself to wring settings. It's pointless. It's like telling a person with contamination obsessions to expose himself to thoughts he is a pedophile. It's useless.

What you are having intrusive thoughts about is in relation to how to properly treat your OCD. It's unusual but it is what it is. You need to treat this form of OCD, not settings of things. So how do you treat it? Look at what compulsions you are performing. You constantly ruminate about what you should do. You come here with tons of questions and asking for reassurance that you don't have to do exposures. These are your compulsions and they need to stop. That's what you need to do... Work on stopping your compulsions and not doing exposures for nonexistent obsessions.

Now I want you to read this several times and try to understand it. I don't want you to come back with some example of exposures from therapy. That's a compulsion and will only keep you stuck.

[saddaniels]

I'm really trying not to ruminate, but its hard, especially when sitting down in front of my TV to try and watch something. I just ruminate more & more over "I'm not doing the therapy right." You say you were in a bad place ruminating & that ruminating is a hard compulsion to stop, but doable. What helped you to break the ruminative cycle when you were at your worst, doubting, anxious, trying to figure out what you should or shouldn't do to control the moment?

[PolarBear]

The basics of stopping ruminating are fairly straightforward but not easy to put into practice.

You first have to recognize that you are ruminating. You then stop yourself. Then you shift your focus onto something else. You keep doing that every time you catch yourself ruminating.

It is also imperative that you have the right mindset. You must agree that you don't need to have all the answers. You need to realize that ruminating never gets you anywhere.Its like spinning your wheels on ice... You expend a lot of energy but don't go anywhere. Fir you in particular, you need to be okay with the fact you may not be doing therapy exactly right. It's okay. So long as you follow the basics, you can get better.

[HedgehogAtNight]

Hi saddaniels,

Im not sure if this helps but Because i cut the compulsions off after a relatively shorter period of time in the past, it seemed like the shorter the episode, the least psychological duress and the least embedded the obsessional belief became. This is just a theory-- but it seems the more attention you give ocd the bigger state you get yourself into... its as though your brain becomes habituated to the idea and decides it MUST be true.

I am also realizing that not following the obsessions can give you an opportunity to sit with your emotions and see how life may unfold without following compulsions...

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Annonymous123

[taurean]

12 hours ago, PolarBear said:

exactly right.

It seems to me that these words are at the heart of daniel's problem. 

When the disorder demands "exactly right"  it can turn into a devastating rule. 

Exactly right can lead to vast amounts of lost, wasted time,agonising, pointless and distressing - as here for daniel. 

I was told in therapy to watch out for my thinking determining "shoulds and oughts" which lead to problems, and get flexible. Rigidity plays into the hands of the disorder. 

 

[HedgehogAtNight]

7 hours ago, taurean said:

It seems to me that these words are at the heart of daniel's problem. 

When the disorder demands "exactly right"  it can turn into a devastating rule. 

Exactly right can lead to vast amounts of lost, wasted time,agonising, pointless and distressing - as here for daniel. 

I was told in therapy to watch out for my thinking determining "shoulds and oughts" which lead to problems, and get flexible. Rigidity plays into the hands of the disorder. 

 

Hi Taurean,

I am very much struggling with this exactly right rule and would agree with everything you have said here -  I see how this exactly right rule has made a seemingly trivial matter into a situation where it becomes escalated in my mind.

However one of the issues im struggling with causes me such intense fear - i.e. I am perceiving it as a life or death situation or a circumstance where I could feel even more out of control, that it is most difficult to stop the 'shoulds' and 'oughts.' I am thinking this may be because my flight/fight control is saying 'I should figure out how to keep myself safe but because I can never be certain of safefy, it will always be an impossible, endless looping answer... Im thinking bc ultimately we cannot have 100% certainty. Id like to broaden my perspective on the need for this, but im struggling to widen my lense. Ive spent almost 4 months of everyday obsessing on the same issue. It feels so embedded now that moving past it or drawing a line- is very tough. So Im wondering, when this intrusive fear comes into my head, what is the very first step i should take?

I feel part of the issue is im trying to take too many steps at once to tackle it. I think it need to break the management of it down into smaller pieces?

[taurean]

It has become a habit to ruminate. 

The only certainty in OCD is that we can never have certainty. 

One idea from the book Brainlock may help. You need to gradually refocus away from this rule and ruminating on your safety issue. 

In Brainlock Jeffrey suggests we gradually wean ourselves away from ruminating by holding out without doing so for say 15 minutes, then each time the urge comes gradually extend the period of resistance, until gradually the urge to do so is broken. 

 

[HedgehogAtNight]

Thank you Taurean,

That is helpful.

[saddaniels]

 So, I mentioned this to my therapist and I don't think we are understanding each other. She says that if setting the TV to the setting I do not prefer makes me anxious, I should do it. I've tried to explain that my obsessions & compulsions around getting the TV just right are at zero. I just want the TV to be a certain way, leave it, and get on with my day. BUT, she says if it makes me anxious, I should do it.

I want to come back at her and say "How anxious would it make you to wear a pair of shoes you didn't like?" I'm assuming she'd be confused if I asked her that, for she doesn't have obsessions & compulsions around which shoes to wear, just like I don't have obsessions & compulsions around the TV settings.

I'm really beginning to think it doesn't matter about the anxiety, what matters is the obsessions/compulsions and how often OCD takes up your time. Don't think I could ever habituate to going against my preference for something nor do I think I should have to.

 

Any way I could explain to my therapist to help her understand more clearly?

[Ashley]

2 hours ago, saddaniels said:

Any way I could explain to my therapist to help her understand more clearly?

To be honest, I don't think you do. Your therapist is understanding it saddaniels. Is it the fact she's told you to do something that your OCD would not be comfortable with that makes you think she does not understand it?

 

2 hours ago, saddaniels said:

She says that if setting the TV to the setting I do not prefer makes me anxious, I should do it. I've tried to explain that my obsessions & compulsions around getting the TV just right are at zero. I just want the TV to be a certain way, leave it, and get on with my day. BUT, she says if it makes me anxious, I should do it.

She is right. If your OCD is focussed on having the remote at a 'set' position then at some point you have to try and set it on any old position and sit with the uncomfortable feeling. Of course that's far harder to do that say, so you may need to work at it. Try by setting a target of '5-10 minutes' of sitting with it on a triggering position and try doing something else, and then build up from there, 10 minutes, then the next day 12 minutes, 15 minutes, 20, 30, 45 and so on.

If you can't do this, I don't think you need to try and explain your OCD to your therapist, you simply need to ask her to help you do this, help you prepare and feel able to challenge your OCD this way.

 

2 hours ago, saddaniels said:

I could ever habituate to going against my preference for something nor do I think I should have to

I think this underlined bit says it all I am afraid. It's not your therapist that doesn't understand, I fear it is you.   We don't have to like doing our therapy exposures, but we have to do them if we wont want to live within the confines of an OCD anxiety provoking life.

[PolarBear]

Well, I don't think your therapist understands what's going on. If you were having obsessions about the setting of your TV then sure, you could screw up the settings and live with the anxiety. That would be an exposure and all would be good.

But everything you've said over the past few months leads me to believe you aren't having intrusive thoughts about your TV settings. You are having intrusive thoughts about perfecting therapy. You are getting thoughts that you need to do exposures when none are required. 

You could go ahead and do the exposure by setting your TV wrong but I don't think it's going to do a whole lot of good. What's making you anxious is the thought that you might not be doing your therapy perfectly.

[taurean]

Agreed spot on PB.