Ouija board as therapy.

[Guest legend]

just an eye catching example

Edited September 17, 2014 by legend

[Guest Stormwave]

Ouija boards were originally intended as a kid's game. It is basically a psychological trick, where one person has an agenda, possibly even subconscious, and other people react to that persons response. For example, if asked a question I think "The answer will be yes", I might subconsciously put a tiny amount of pressure towards yes. Other people will then respond to that by putting pressure on it, and the pointer will move. Now, my pressure alone won't be enough to move it, but collectively it is, creating the illusion that the pointer is moving on it's own. It's known as the Ideomotor phenomenon.

People's lack of understanding of this trick led people to believe it was supernatural, which isn't the case at all.

As for it helping with magical thinking, I think it would only make a magical thinking person's OCD worse. It'll give them an obsession point, possibly even a form of reassurance for their beliefs.

I suffer from magical thinking OCD, and realised that my beliefs were almost entirely due to my religious upbringing. God is watching everything you do, God is judging you, God will make things happen based on what you do, etc. This idea of somebody watching everything I do subconsciously directed me to the belief that everything I do will have a cause that can be prevented. Because of this I wouldn't, for example, smoke a cigarette before getting on a plane. I decided if God didn't like me smoking (I was told this was a sin), then he might choose to punish me by crashing the plane.

It took me the best part of 10 years to get rid of this religious indoctrination that plagued me, and since I have my magical thinking has severely weakened. It is amusing that what psychologists call "magical thinking", is identical to religious thinking.

[Guest legend]

ouiji in this instance isnt anything to do with magical thinking , its about exposing oneself to fears.

and was set out as an eg .

[Guest Tricia]

ouiji in this instance isnt anything to do with magical thinking , its about exposing oneself to fears.

and was set out as an eg .

Yes, a fear of the devil etc. (although magical thinking can be linked to this for some).

Ouija boards were originally intended as a kid's game. It is basically a psychological trick, where one person has an agenda, possibly even subconscious, and other people react to that persons response. For example, if asked a question I think "The answer will be yes", I might subconsciously put a tiny amount of pressure towards yes. Other people will then respond to that by putting pressure on it, and the pointer will move. Now, my pressure alone won't be enough to move it, but collectively it is, creating the illusion that the pointer is moving on it's own. It's known as the Ideomotor phenomenon.

People's lack of understanding of this trick led people to believe it was supernatural, which isn't the case at all.

I'm afraid there's more to it than psychological trickery. I've done a great deal of research, after hearing of my mother's and other's experiences, and there is certainly something more to this. Also, psychological tricks don't make ceilings and windscreens crack and many other bizarre things occur.

[Guest Stormwave]

ouiji in this instance isnt anything to do with magical thinking , its about exposing oneself to fears.

and was set out as an eg .

I see your point, but my worry is well explained in this Yahoo Answer:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090731212423AAVgR4l

Theresa R's answer, paragraph 4:

That's where the dangerous part comes in. People with obsessive personalities, and addictive personalities, can become consumed with playing with the board, even to the point where it affects their everyday lives. A lot of these people are grieving for deceased loved ones, and their obsession with trying to make contact becomes downright unhealthy.

I kind of agree with this, I think it'll just move the obsession into something different.

I'm afraid there's more to it than psychological trickery. I've done a great deal of research, after hearing of my mother's and other's experiences, and there is certainly something more to this. Also, psychological tricks don't make ceilings and windscreens crack and many other bizarre things occur.

I don't mean to be argumentative at all, but I seriously doubt those claims. Have you witnessed them personally, or just heard about them from other people? There is a thing called confirmation bias, in which we can piece two bits of "evidence" together to make it seem like they connect based on our already existing biases.

Read here for more information: http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/unexplained-phenomena/ouija-boards.htm

[Guest legend]

Yes, a fear of the devil etc. (although magical thinking can be linked to this for some).

I'm afraid there's more to it than psychological trickery. I've done a great deal of research, after hearing of my mother's and other's experiences, and there is certainly something more to this. Also, psychological tricks don't make ceilings and windscreens crack and many other bizarre things occur.

yes but the magical thinking part isnt the issue , its about exposing oneself to the things that they fear most

Rob was using as an eye catching example , and that most dont need this in regards to erp.

I think half the problem is , that with erp people fear that they have to do the most awful thing to recover , which isnt

always necessary , because for some things click in before they reach that highest feared point

[Guest Tricia]

I don't mean to be argumentative at all, but I seriously doubt those claims. Have you witnessed them personally, or just heard about them from other people? There is a thing called confirmation bias, in which we can piece two bits of "evidence" together to make it seem like they connect based on our already existing biases.

I have not witnessed them myself (regarding the Ouija) but I completely trust my mother. I do appreciate how hard it is for many to believe in such things and I don't think you are being argumentative at all. I am not a gullible person, but have had so much personal proof of other supernatural events, that I went from being very sceptical to believing.

[Guest Tricia]

yes but the magical thinking part isnt the issue , its about exposing oneself to the things that they fear most

Rob was using as an eye catching example , and that most dont need this in regards to erp.

I think half the problem is , that with erp people fear that they have to do the most awful thing to recover , which isnt

always necessary , because for some things click in before they reach that highest feared point

I agree it's about exposing ourselves to what we fear, but when our fear of the devil etc. involves magical thinking then, if the Ouija board were just a harmless toy, it would help with that as well.

[Guest legend]

I agree it's about exposing ourselves to what we fear, but when our fear of the devil etc. involves magical thinking then, if the Ouija board were just a harmless toy, it would help with that as well.

maybe , but one would work at the type of magical thinking one is doing in regards to the devil firstly .

[Guest Lyn77]

Wow I totally get this. 1 of my ocd fears is the devil. I once read in a book that a mum had psycosis and believed her child was the devil. The thought stuck and I began to obsess over whether I would get psycosis and believe this....the fear grew so strong and I would think of the exorcist etc...my whole ocd fears were based around this and funnily enough I do not believe in all that stuff but yet the idea of these thoughts going round and round in my head was enough for me to think I was crazy. The thought of watching any movie with scary things about that stuff or doing a ouiji board or anything like that scares the absolute **** out of me and I avoid at all costs stuff like that to avoid triggers....I guess thats why I still have ocd quite badly....so maby I need to expose myself to all this stuff?! I often wondered whether exposing myslef to movies like the exorcist etc..would be in my best interest as I told my psycologist and he said I should avoid scary movies if they make my ocd worse xx

[Guest legend]

Wow I totally get this. 1 of my ocd fears is the devil. I once read in a book that a mum had psycosis and believed her child was the devil. The thought stuck and I began to obsess over whether I would get psycosis and believe this....the fear grew so strong and I would think of the exorcist etc...my whole ocd fears were based around this and funnily enough I do not believe in all that stuff but yet the idea of these thoughts going round and round in my head was enough for me to think I was crazy. The thought of watching any movie with scary things about that stuff or doing a ouiji board or anything like that scares the absolute **** out of me and I avoid at all costs stuff like that to avoid triggers....I guess thats why I still have ocd quite badly....so maby I need to expose myself to all this stuff?! I often wondered whether exposing myslef to movies like the exorcist etc..would be in my best interest as I told my psycologist and he said I should avoid scary movies if they make my ocd worse xx

So what have the therapists done in regards to treating the fear ?

[Guest Lyn77]

Nothing. Ive been seeing a psycologist for years. He tells me to avoid things that make me anxious. He is person centred in therapy not cbt or erp. I go and talk and he listens thats it...I was on waiting list for years and I got him and have had about 25 sessions with him...im no better for that. I use self help mostly in the form of reading cbt books and mindfulness stuff...I try to do my own exposure but must admit im not really moving forward. Xx

[Guest heartplace]

I'm afraid there's more to it than psychological trickery. I've done a great deal of research, after hearing of my mother's and other's experiences, and there is certainly something more to this. Also, psychological tricks don't make ceilings and windscreens crack and many other bizarre things occur.

I highly agree. It's way more than simply our subconscious messing with us.

[gingerbreadgirl]

We do allow treatment on kids, just not blood transfusions.

Have just read through this post with interest and came across the above.

Have I misunderstood something here?

[Guest heartplace]

Have just read through this post with interest and came across the above.

Have I misunderstood something here?

What do you mean?

[gingerbreadgirl]

Would a Jehovah's witness not allow a child to have a blood transfusion?

[Caramoole]

Listen Guys......Can we not go down this route. It's not really connected with OCD or the thread

[daisy]

Hi Gb,

I think it was when legend said on the 17th Sept that Jehovah's Witnesses don't allow treatment on kids,and as heartplace replied they do it's just blood transfusions.What that has to do with this thread though i don't really know.x

[daisy]

Well said Caramoole x

[gingerbreadgirl]

I will have to hold my tongue on this. As caramoole says it is not connected with OCD - my apologies for going down this route.

[Caramoole]

That's okay

[Guest legend]

Hi Gb,

I think it was when legend said on the 17th Sept that Jehovah's Witnesses don't allow treatment on kids,and as heartplace replied they do it's just blood transfusions.What that has to do with this thread though i don't really know.x

was merely responding to another post

However for this and other posts i put on , i apologise profusely

Best of luck with your ocd recoverys

[Guest heartplace]

was merely responding to another post

However for this and other posts i put on , i apologise profusely

Best of luck with your ocd recoverys

I understand. Many people have misconceptions of our beliefs so I just felt like I needed to clarify.

I'm having a rough time right now with anxiety and depression so I'm sorry if I bit anyone's heads off, lol.

Now where were we? Oh yeah, that thing called OCD...

[Guest Tricia]

like i said earlier , religion and ocd both very powerful voices when they collide.

Ill have a chat with rob wilson later about it

Im sure the intentions arent what they seem ,and they are both top therapists in the world of anxiety and ocd

Legend, I'm wondering if you managed to discuss this with Rob Willson and if he and David Veale still think it's a good exposure to use with certain religious/magical thinking fears?

Since last writing on this thread, I have got to know someone else who has been told to use a Ouija board and I am very worried.

I appreciate that to non believers it all seems harmless, but I truly do not think it is.

[Guest legend]

think rob said its used as an eg of an exposure, a general statement, and/but not always required