OCD about morals and honesty

[snowbear]

25 minutes ago, taurean said:

Roosevelt, I think it was, said that realistically the best we can hope to be is right about 85 per cent of the time. I simply aim to try and achieve better than that. 

In other words you try to be unrealistic?   

Oh, the irony.  Roosevelt would raise an eyebrow at such a lofty aim, I think. 

Guess some people find it hard to accept being 'just as good as but no better than' others.   

I'm happy with 'doing my best'. I'm probably right far less than 85% of the time, but it's my best so it's good enough. 

I know... but I couldn't resist.  

[gingerbreadgirl]

12 minutes ago, snowbear said:

In other words you try to be unrealistic?   

Oh, the irony.  Roosevelt would raise an eyebrow at such a lofty aim, I think. 

Guess some people find it hard to accept being 'just as good as but no better than' others.   

I'm happy with 'doing my best'. I'm probably right far less than 85% of the time, but it's my best so it's good enough. 

I know... but I couldn't resist.  

hehe I thought this too I think I am wrong far more than 15% of the time! That would be a lofty aim indeed! and what is *wrong* anyway... (going off into a whole new topic there.)

But I totally understand the sentiment Roy and very much appreciate the support as always

[taurean]

Nice post snowbear

 

[taurean]

No harm in aiming high, I am a confident person  Though I am also pragmatic 

 

[snowbear]

4 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

what is *wrong* anyway... (going off into a whole new topic there.)

Yeah, I know. Don't get me started...  

[taurean]

It would soon go "hot"  such a topic

 

[gingerbreadgirl]

I feel a new central perk topic coming on...

[Orwell1984]

Hi GBG, I can relate to this theme a lot. It's very hard to unpick social cues, situations and not ruminate about behaviour of challenge thoughts regarding it all e.g. Did I behave ethically, respectfully to that person, am I inherently bad at my core, is badness trying to build on itself, can I do anything to ensure it doesn't- all these thoughts re social situations and behavioural conduct are so hard to deal with. I cannot recommend enough getting CBT for these issues. Having an objective person to bounce these ideas off can be great for clarity and great for devising a response plan and ultimately exposure to the outstanding OCD elements. I'm doing that now and it's really improving things. Doing it alone tied me up in too many knots, I think an extra pair of (impartial) eyes will be a great help for you too.

[taurean]

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I feel a new central perk topic coming on...

That's what I was thinking......... 

[gingerbreadgirl]

6 hours ago, Orwell1984 said:

Hi GBG, I can relate to this theme a lot. It's very hard to unpick social cues, situations and not ruminate about behaviour of challenge thoughts regarding it all e.g. Did I behave ethically, respectfully to that person, am I inherently bad at my core, is badness trying to build on itself, can I do anything to ensure it doesn't- all these thoughts re social situations and behavioural conduct are so hard to deal with. I cannot recommend enough getting CBT for these issues. Having an objective person to bounce these ideas off can be great for clarity and great for devising a response plan and ultimately exposure to the outstanding OCD elements. I'm doing that now and it's really improving things. Doing it alone tied me up in too many knots, I think an extra pair of (impartial) eyes will be a great help for you too.

Hi Orwell,

Thanks for this and I'm really glad to hear things are improving for you

My reluctance to get CBT is partly because I had it in the past and it was so awful, but mostly because I find it very difficult to explain my thoughts in a verbal setting.  I become so preoccupied with how I'm "coming across" and things end up coming out the way I don't really intend them to, and then the person I'm speaking to runs with it even though it's not really what I meant at all, and I end up running with it because I'm not sure what I really do mean... etc.

It sounds crazy but I really wish there was a thing where you could have therapy over email or even instant chat.  I know myself and I know I would do better that way - I like having time to think about what I really mean to say, not whatever comes out.  But alas, I'm not sure it is a thing and I'm sure any therapist would argue why I don't really know myself at all and it's much better to talk things out face to face... (it isn't! not for me!)

Thanks again x

[Binxy]

Don't be afraid to have therapy, even if you have had a bad experience. I had at least 2 rubbish therapists before my last one- the last one was amazing.

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

It sounds crazy but I really wish there was a thing where you could have therapy over email or even instant chat.

What about trying to write stuff down before the session in an effort to get it into a form you are happy with?

Sorry you're still struggling GBG. Hang in there

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks Binxy.  I think there is also the fact that in a verbal setting I feel more concerned with wanting the therapist to feel good about themselves, like they are doing a good job, and that becomes more paramount in my mind than actually doing the therapy.  Also wanting them to like me, not wanting them to think I'm weird etc.  I also have an inherent mistrust of people until I really get to know them (which for some reason I don't feel in a written setting.) These concerns take over and I find they do in any kind of verbal setting. I don't feel like that when it's not face-to-face which is one reason why I find the forum so incredibly valuable. I can be much more honest and straightforward when things are written down.  I genuinely don't feel that therapy would really help me at this point.  That is not to say I'm down on therapy in general - I'm totally not - but just for me. 

[taurean]

I would suggest you use your writing skills GBG to codify what you now know about how your OCD themes work, and how those thinking distortions function and overlap with the OCD. 

Put against each what you have learned about how to tackle them. 

But maybe take a leaf from my writing book and keep it very simple, just summarised. 

So this forms both the map of your difficulties and the blueprint of what to do. 

Once it becomes second nature, the new behaviours will take over and, like me and mine, you won't need to refer to it! 

Edited March 9, 2018 by taurean
typo

[gingerbreadgirl]

That's good advice, thanks Roy x

[gingerbreadgirl]

Sorry to keep banging on about this but I've been thinking.  I really think my issue is that that I have no real sense of self at all.  I feel like so many of my opinions are actually other people's.  I feel a bit like a jar that other people fill up with their stuff, and if those other people were to vanish I would be just empty.

I had an amazing childhood but I can admit that my mum can be domineering. She used to tell me what to think about things, and she would 'reward' me (unintentionally) for thinking the "right" things (and sometimes ridicule me for thinking the "wrong" things), so I think I learned that thinking the exact same things my mum thinks is the way to be accepted. 

I think also, being gay played a role in all this - I kept it to myself for years and when I did eventually tell my mum she didn't accept it and I felt very rejected. (She is absolutely fine with it now.)

Since I've grown up I've replaced my mum with other people along the way but I have always needed someone to prop me up and validate my thoughts and actions.  I unconsciously strike a deal with certain people where I say "if you look after me then in return I will let you call the shots." I have absolutely no trust in myself.  This dynamic is not anyone's fault (nor is it mine, I can see that) but I'm pretty sure this is a big part of the issue.

I also live in constant fear of other people withdrawing their approval (because then what do I have left?) And I think this is why what happened on holiday hit me so hard.  And this is why all my fears revolve around being a bad person, because ultimately it means rejection and even the loss of this self that is so fragile.  Sorry I'm not really expecting a specific reply just thinking out loud and trying to get to the bottom of all this stuff.

Edited March 9, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[Gemma7]

I think this is a much more self compassionate honest account of yourself GBG. Perhaps other people could have been better as well as yourself that's an important step I think. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you.  That was actually difficult to write because my urge was to take out anything that could be seen as being negative about anyone else.  But I didn't, so I guess that's something.

[Gemma7]

It really is something and well done for posting it. It's stuff like this that will help frame things in a way that allows for self-compassion and eventually a sense of self. You have a sense of self really, you just don't let her out

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks Gemma

[Cub]

Hi Ginger

Personally, I think you're AWESOME (times a squillion :hug:) but I know reassurance isn't the way to go although isn't it so tempting to just fold yourself into it for a while and hear nice things? That's always the problem here.

As a Christian with OCD (if you'll indulge me a moment) I've often prayed to God to make me moral and kind and do my best and I believe that He understands. But like you I worry that it's not enough and that I have to do more; do I have to completely reaffirm my faith? I've become quite naughty over the past few years - not harmful naughty just more human, less rigid and so in turn, less anxious. A lot of what I've done has been a kind of exposure in itself but I'm no longer putting pressure on myself to be perfect because we're only human. But it's really hard to tell the OCD that; the OCD monster didn't get the memo, sadly. It's a rule unto itself. And I know that you're not religious, but as long as you believe in yourself and remind yourself you can't be perfect, then you're headed in the right direction. 

I think the main thing here is to remind yourself - if it feels like OCD, it probably is and be kind to yourself. 

C x

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you Cub that's really sweet and I totally get what you're saying

I hope you're doing OK xx