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Hi Cora, 

I just wanted to offer some support. You can read some elements of my story within my previous post history. 

I suffer from a sexual variation of OCD like yourself only mine is concerning sexuality. I've currently had a relapse and I am struggling to fight back but i'm trying my hardest. 

I just want to say from experience I disagree completely with your therapist saying that on some level you should know these sensations are not true. Everything you have described such as arousal and the way it feels real etc etc. I've had all the exact same symptoms, been convinced it is real as clear as the sky is blue and not been able to see the wood for the trees that it is OCD but that is the nature of the beast. 

If it didn't feel real and you weren't convinced it was real why would you be worried about it? You'd just shrug it off. There would be no issue. If nobodies OCD convinced them that what they were feeling was 100 per cent real and made them feel completely confused and not knowing which way was up or down then OCD wouldn't be an issue for anyone. 

I can only speak from what has worked for me and believe me I have been through hell and back with OCD and there were some dark times where I was convinced I had 100% turned gay, I couldn't even explain why. I just felt like I had. I was certain. Eventually I was so exhausted and loosing the will to live that I had no other options left than to just start to treat it as OCD. 

You won't believe it is OCD at first, you will feel its disingenuous, that you are lying to yourself, that its all pointless because you're going to end up turning into what you believe you have hidden deep down inside you, but it takes a leap of faith. You have to treat it as OCD despite not believing it and fake it to you make it and expose yourself to the idea that it is pointless and you are just lying to yourself. 

The only times I have ever recovered from my OCD symptons and regained a happy life (despite feeling at the time it would never be possible again) is when I follow the following steps:

  • Stop going on all OCD forums and reading anything and everything to do with OCD and your symptons. If you are anything like myself your compulsions are mainly in your head and consist of endless ruminations and dwelling on the thoughts. I log onto forums to try and alleviate the feeling of discomfort and anxiety and convince myself I have OCD, or I re-read the same online articles about various subtypes of OCD and their symptons to try and reassure myself that it is all just OCD - this is reassurance and is keeping you in a stuck in a loop. When you stop looking at forums and reading you will feel an overwhelming urge, you will feel horrendous, you will feel like you are going through hell and you can't cope but you have to hang on and stick with the programme and be patient because I PROMISE you. Those feelings and the power they have over you do diminish. 
  • Every time you get a thought/feeling/urge or anything even remotely associated with your theme no matter how vague just label it as OCD and move on. Don't push it away and try and escape it quickly and panic about panicking. Just thinking 'oh theres an ocd thought, i know you are there and i know i'm scared of you but i'm not going to pay you any attention'. Sometimes it helps me to imagine the thought/feeling/urge sensation as almost like junk mail and treat it similarly. As in, I read it and observe it but then screw it up and throw it over my shoulder. This isn't easy and you're going to probably get secondary thoughts or third waves of thoughts that say in your head 'you're only avoiding this because you can't face the truth and are in denial' - again treat this secondary thought or doubt as another OCD thought, screw it up and throw it away and try and go about your day as normally as you can. 
  • Don't perform any checking compulsions. Sometimes it is confusing to understand that you are actually doing a checking compulsion. E.g. for example with myself, and I think also the case with others, people who have sexual themed OCD's really struggle with what it means to 'accept' a thought. When I heard 'accept' I used to always think to myself, right ok i'm going to really expose myself and imagine myself doing something sexual with a guy and try and get turned on by it, so I can finally just accept whatever happens will happen. This was flawed thinking and essentially me giving into an elaborate compulsion as the only reason I wanted to do that was to try and rid myself of and escape the doubt and unsettling feeling within me. What accepting a thought means is you literally do nothing. You give up trying to find an answer. That is your exposure and then you then prevent responding to how uncomfortable that makes you feel by not then going on forums to try and gain reassurance or trying to figure anything out in your head. You accept that 'ok maybe I could get aroused by those things, but i'm not going to do anything to disprove or prove if I can or not' e.g. you give up trying to do anything to prove or disprove your theme.
  • I always find it helpful as well when going through a flare up of my OCD to just put anything to do with sexuality on the back burner for a bit. Not avoid it, but essentially give up the search for an answer as to what I am, or what to label myself. Now this probably seems counter intuitive as you will feel how can you ever get through life without ever knowing or feeling uncertain as to what you really are deep down, when all your life you've felt like you've known before etc etc. But trust me, put it on the back burner, follow the steps and eventually you will get to the point where you wake up one day and you realise you aren't thinking about it and behaving naturally and your old self comes back and it suddenly becomes clear. 

Another few points to add and I don't know if its the same for you as everyone differs but my OCD is always worse in the morning. Like horrendously bad. So sometimes i'll have a bad morning and by night time the worries are still there but i'm not engaging with them as much and I almost semi feel my normal self, only to go back to sleep and start the cycle all over again. If this is the case with you, don't worry just stick with the plan and slowly but surely it will ease up!

Cora you can 100% do this and get over this and regain your life but it will be a difficult and uncomfortable road to get there. You will suffer but you have to suffer through it and keep following the plan even when it feels like it is all pointless and you are just lying to yourself. Just keep on. 

I won't be replying any further but please don't take it the wrong way. It's because I myself should be avoiding logging on or accessing the forums as for me personally they only provide me with temporary reassurance and exasperate and prolong my OCD in the long run as they become almost a crutch and part of my reassurance compulsions. It's ok to come on here to ask for advice but you've now got the advice and need to try your hardest to apply it!

You can do this!

J

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cora said:

The fact that I want to be what my thoughts say is genuine. I talked to my therapist about this yesterday and he said on some level you should know that these thoughts and sensations are not true... but I don't, I am not able to say they are not true.... so what is this then?! 

I very much doubt you want to be what your thoughts say at all. If you did you'd have no anxiety and not be at all troubled by the thought, would even get genuine pleasure from thinking , 'I'm a pedophile and I love being one.' Does that sound like you? No. Therefore it's neither fact nor genuine. 

Doesn't matter that you're not able to say they're not true. Overcoming OCD is about giving up the search for certainty and living with doubt. 

You're not trying to get to a place where you can sigh with relief and say 'Finally! I know it's not true, it was just OCD.'

The aim is to get to a place where you shrug your shoulders and say, 'It's just a thought, just a feeling, it's not important and it doesn't mean anything.' Then you can add, 'I might be a pedophile, but I'm probably not and the doubt about whether I am or not is ok with me.' 

As long as you go on trying to prove to yourself that these feelings aren't a sign that you're a pedophile they will continue to be there, constantly making you feel they must be true because they feel so convincing. And the harder you try to deny them the more convincing they will feel.

It also  explains why - at some level - you probably quite genuinely don't want to be free of OCD! At the moment you're giving yourself only 2 options:

1) it's true I'm a pedophile monster 

OR

2. it's all OCD and I'm really a good person.

Given those options it's hardly surprising if you're hanging onto your OCD. What you need to realise is these aren't your only options. You're ignoring several more possibilities, one of which is 'I'm not a pedophile, I'm just placing too much importance on the thoughts and feelings I get and confusing myself.' 

When you start to realise there are many other options and not just the black and white choice between monster and OCD you're currently giving yourself, then you'll be much more willing (eager!) to be rid of OCD. 

 

5 hours ago, Cora said:

Here goes another thing that can be probably used as a proof that I'm a monster: 

Ok, it probably could. But EQUALLY, it probably couldn't. 

Do you see that 'probably' works both ways? In other words, this event proves nothing. 

But yet again you've got caught up in the details and the feelings and convinced yourself that the only 'probably' that has meaning is the one that produces the outcome you fear, totally ignoring the probably that proves your innocence. 

 

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Oh, OCD has you all tied up in knots. 

If you truly didn't want to recover from OCD, why are you getting all upset about it and coming here to post about it? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Stop reading forums and listening to podcasts, trying to find someone exactly like you. I did that for 10 years. 10 miserable years. I stopped when I figured out the content of my obsessions was both irrelevant and specific to me alone.

Edited by PolarBear
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6 hours ago, Handy said:

There are intrusive thoughts but there are also intrusive feelings. 
 

An intrusive feeling is one you didn’t put there yourself.

Who put it there? An alien?

Intrusive thoughts and intrusive feelings aren't put there by someone else, only you can have a thought or feeling in your own mind.  That doesn't mean the thought is important or worth spending time on.

Intrusive means it interferes with your life by being disruptive and persistent, not that it was inserted by an intruder.

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On 15/05/2020 at 18:18, snowbear said:

I very much doubt you want to be what your thoughts say at all. If you did you'd have no anxiety and not be at all troubled by the thought, would even get genuine pleasure from thinking , 'I'm a pedophile and I love being one.' Does that sound like you? No. Therefore it's neither fact nor genuine. 

Doesn't matter that you're not able to say they're not true. Overcoming OCD is about giving up the search for certainty and living with doubt. 

You're not trying to get to a place where you can sigh with relief and say 'Finally! I know it's not true, it was just OCD.'

The aim is to get to a place where you shrug your shoulders and say, 'It's just a thought, just a feeling, it's not important and it doesn't mean anything.' Then you can add, 'I might be a pedophile, but I'm probably not and the doubt about whether I am or not is ok with me.' 

As long as you go on trying to prove to yourself that these feelings aren't a sign that you're a pedophile they will continue to be there, constantly making you feel they must be true because they feel so convincing. And the harder you try to deny them the more convincing they will feel.

It also  explains why - at some level - you probably quite genuinely don't want to be free of OCD! At the moment you're giving yourself only 2 options:

1) it's true I'm a pedophile monster 

OR

2. it's all OCD and I'm really a good person.

Given those options it's hardly surprising if you're hanging onto your OCD. What you need to realise is these aren't your only options. You're ignoring several more possibilities, one of which is 'I'm not a pedophile, I'm just placing too much importance on the thoughts and feelings I get and confusing myself.' 

When you start to realise there are many other options and not just the black and white choice between monster and OCD you're currently giving yourself, then you'll be much more willing (eager!) to be rid of OCD. 

 

Ok, it probably could. But EQUALLY, it probably couldn't. 

Do you see that 'probably' works both ways? In other words, this event proves nothing. 

But yet again you've got caught up in the details and the feelings and convinced yourself that the only 'probably' that has meaning is the one that produces the outcome you fear, totally ignoring the probably that proves your innocence. 

 

I can't thank you enough for your great help and advice, snowbear! You are amazing! 

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On 18/05/2020 at 01:33, PolarBear said:

Oh, OCD has you all tied up in knots. 

If you truly didn't want to recover from OCD, why are you getting all upset about it and coming here to post about it? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Stop reading forums and listening to podcasts, trying to find someone exactly like you. I did that for 10 years. 10 miserable years. I stopped when I figured out the content of my obsessions was both irrelevant and specific to me alone.

Thank you for your reply, PolarBear! It's hard but I will try and stop reading forums and listening to podcasts as a form of reassurance. 

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On 18/05/2020 at 08:47, dksea said:

Who put it there? An alien?

Intrusive thoughts and intrusive feelings aren't put there by someone else, only you can have a thought or feeling in your own mind.  That doesn't mean the thought is important or worth spending time on.

Intrusive means it interferes with your life by being disruptive and persistent, not that it was inserted by an intruder.

Thank you, dksea! I didn't know the correct definition of intrusive but now I do. Thank you! 

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Before I start I would like to apologise for being here just to complain and rant. I really hope there will be a time when I am able to help people in finding strength to fight their OCD, like so many amazing people do here, including snowbear, PolarBear, dksea, malina, Ashley and many others. 

I am here again with another disgusting story/moment that happened yesterday. I have tried to let it go and see it as OCD but unfortunately I can't; it even appeared in my dreams last night which contributed to making me feel even more guilty, anxious and disgusting than I felt after it happened. It is, once again, about my brother and I. I will try to keep it short: we were together in the living room when at some point I realised I was able to see his intimate/private part as he was wearing shorts and was sitting cross legged on the floor. As I can remember, I didn't stare for more than a second, but that second was more so terrifying because I felt an urge to touch him inappropriately. In that moment it felt that it would be okay/nice for me to do so. The urge lasted for a minute or two, can't remember exactly. An hour or so later after this moment happened I went in my room, I was laying in my bed, my body was overwhelmed by a feeling of arousal and excitement, and the only thing I was able to think of was my brother; I don't remember if it was on purpose or not but I did think of my brother when I was aroused.  This is not just incest but also child abuse, my brother in only 8 years old...

From last night I've been in a state where I hate myself more than anything. I feel disgusting and like a monster that doesn't deserve to live. But this is not the worst part, nope! The worst part is that even though I feel guilty and miserable, I don't think I feel guilty or disgusted enough. I am aware that there is no way a person can know how they should feel, but in my case half of my mind knows that what happened is absolutely terrible and the other half thinks it's not; it thinks that it would be okay to abuse your brother. This is like a nightmare! I am so confused and have no idea who I am anymore. My brother keeps saying that I am an awesome sister, but he doesn't know that any time he hugs or kisses me all I can feel is an urge to hurt him or some sort of arousal; I feel it even now while typing this...

One more time, I am sorry for posting just to rant. And I'm sorry if this post has made you feel uncomfortable or hurt you in any way. You are free to tell me that I'm disgusting or a monster if you think so. I won't take it as an offense as it's the absolute truth.  

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Hi,

I would like to add that I have a constant feeling that I'm hurting my brother when there is any contact between us, especially when hugging and kissing (he is very affectionate and we are quite close as I have been taking care of him, together with my parents, since he was born which is a bit more than 8 years now).
I am very scared to post this as I believe this is a crime, which I realised it's been happening for so long just now.
Whenever we (my brother and I) hug and kiss it feels that I'm enjoying this contact in a sexual way as you would enjoy the physical intimacy with your partner. It feels like this but I'm not sure of the accuracy of this feeling. To be honest, I have no proof that I don't enjoy being so close with my brother, nor that I do. When I ask myself What do I feel when hugging/kissing my brother?/Do I enjoy this really close contact in a sick way? Are my feelings and body responses as strong as when I am with my boyfriend? I can never say for sure No, I don't enjoy it especially in a sick disgusting way or I don't feel anything towards my brother except normal sibling love. Now here comes the worst part of the crime: I believe, I can even say that I'm sure, that sometimes I kiss (on the cheek) or touch/hug my brother in a very impulsive way. It means that I would have an intrusive thought/sensation/urge when sitting next to my brother and then all of sudden I would find myself touching him (never in a sexual way). I think this is sexual and child abuse. I just realised that...  I need to call the police and inform them about this, right?! I am a danger to my brother, and probably other kids. I guess this is over now. 

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Hey Cora,

take a deep breath and try to think rationally for a moment. You haven’t done anything at all. I know that it seems to you like you have done something horrible, but in reality your behaviour has been completely normal. All you did was to be affectionate with your little brother, I have a younger brother and can tell you that it’s absolutely normal behaviour. Your brother hasn’t been hurt in any way, it sounds like he loves you very much and is happy. The only problem is that you have unusual thoughts and sensations when you are with him, which are caused by OCD, a mental disorder. The only one being hurt here is you and you need to go easy on yourself. 
 

What do you think would happen if you called the police? What would they do? You haven’t done anything bad or remotely illegal. So they would send you to a doctor who would probably come to the same conclusion that you have OCD and you’d be in the same place you are now. 
 

Come on Cora, you can do this! I know it all seems very real to you, but it’s yet another manifestation of your OCD. You need to stop punishing yourself, you need to stop being disgusted with yourself and thinking that you’re a bad person. These thoughts sound awful but you can’t help it, you didn’t ask for them. What you need to do is to stop panicking every time something like this comes up because that guarantees that it’ll happen again. Just take it easy, go do your work and try to move on. 

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Hi Cora,
 

It is important to keep going about your day to day routine as much as is possible. I hope work was ok and you are feeling a bit calmer now. 


you have got this!!

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18 hours ago, malina said:

Hey Cora,

take a deep breath and try to think rationally for a moment. You haven’t done anything at all. I know that it seems to you like you have done something horrible, but in reality your behaviour has been completely normal. All you did was to be affectionate with your little brother, I have a younger brother and can tell you that it’s absolutely normal behaviour. Your brother hasn’t been hurt in any way, it sounds like he loves you very much and is happy. The only problem is that you have unusual thoughts and sensations when you are with him, which are caused by OCD, a mental disorder. The only one being hurt here is you and you need to go easy on yourself. 
 

What do you think would happen if you called the police? What would they do? You haven’t done anything bad or remotely illegal. So they would send you to a doctor who would probably come to the same conclusion that you have OCD and you’d be in the same place you are now. 
 

Come on Cora, you can do this! I know it all seems very real to you, but it’s yet another manifestation of your OCD. You need to stop punishing yourself, you need to stop being disgusted with yourself and thinking that you’re a bad person. These thoughts sound awful but you can’t help it, you didn’t ask for them. What you need to do is to stop panicking every time something like this comes up because that guarantees that it’ll happen again. Just take it easy, go do your work and try to move on. 

Thank you so much, malina! You are so kind and nice to me. Thank you!

The problem is that I acted impulsively and kissed/hugged my brother as soon as I had a thought/sensation/urge. And it happened a lot of times. I've abused him. I don't think there is a way I can move on. I don't want to accept it but I'm as bad as, or even worse, paedophiles that hurt children and can't control themselves. 

 

Thank you again, malina! I'm sorry if my post caused you any disgust or discomfort, that wasn't my intention. 

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9 hours ago, Hdigtts said:

Hi Cora,
 

It is important to keep going about your day to day routine as much as is possible. I hope work was ok and you are feeling a bit calmer now. 


you have got this!!

Thank you, @Hdigtts for your kind words and support (even though I don't actually deserve it). Thank you! 

Hope you are doing okay. 

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It happened again! My brother kissed me, I felt a sensation, and I kissed him back as a result of that sensation. I don't know why I did it. It's like I can't control myself. I'm so lost. What is going on? 
I need to stay away from my brother. I can't believe that this is happening to me... 

It seems that if I touch him, I won't resist and hurt him. I just felt an urge mixed with false attraction. 

I'm so sorry. Please can anyone tell me what to do? Who do I need to contact so they know I am a danger to my brother? 

Edited by Cora
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2 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you, @Hdigtts for your kind words and support (even though I don't actually deserve it). Thank you! 

Hope you are doing okay. 

Hi @Cora 

you do deserve it, you are just going through a bad patch atm. 
On your recent post. The urge to kiss your brother is just one of love. I think you are just mixing that love with the sexual urges. Believe me, many people have had the same issues. It doesn’t make you a danger to him. 

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3 hours ago, Cora said:

Thank you so much, malina! You are so kind and nice to me. Thank you!

The problem is that I acted impulsively and kissed/hugged my brother as soon as I had a thought/sensation/urge. And it happened a lot of times. I've abused him. I don't think there is a way I can move on. I don't want to accept it but I'm as bad as, or even worse, paedophiles that hurt children and can't control themselves. 

 

Thank you again, malina! I'm sorry if my post caused you any disgust or discomfort, that wasn't my intention. 

Hey Cora,

why would your post cause me disgust? I just feel a lot of sympathy because I think that you’re a lovely young person who is very confused and suffering a lot. 
 

I understand that you missed or hugged your brother impulsively after getting an urge, but you still haven’t done anything wrong at all. In fact, I think that you should try to continue having the normal relationship that you’ve had with your brother and allow the thoughts to be there. If you start avoiding him, these feelings will only intensify. You have to understand that the thoughts and your actions are not related, you have intrusive thoughts and urges but your behaviour is completely normal and acceptable. The thoughts are meaningless junk. If you keep reaching to them, you keep giving them meaning and you keep being afraid. How about just giving it a shot? Just try to not panic at these thoughts, try to spend at least some time thinking about this in the context of OCD and what you have been learning in therapy.

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Hi,

Thank you so much for your support and kind words, @malina ad @Hdigtts! I'm really grateful for your help and the time you spend to reply to my posts, but at the same time I feel bad as I don't think I deserve your attention and kindness. But I'm really thankful anyway. 

I've calmed down a bit, and also talked about this with my boyfriend which helped a lot. However, I still feel like a terrible person that needs to go to prison, or to be kept away from children at least. I'm just trying to understand what happened in all those moments when I kissed/hugged my brother impulsively. I can clearly remember that it felt like I couldn't control myself (it makes me sick to say it but it's the truth) - and, for me, this is absolutely disgusting! I just want to have a normal relationship with my brother, the relationship we had for 7 years or so; I just want to be the big sister who takes care of her baby brother, who protects him, who can offer him support any time he needs it, and finally who can hug and kiss him without feeling aroused or having urges to touch him inappropriately.

Knowing that I've acted on urges several times makes me want to die. If now I kiss him impulsively, how can I know I won't do something even more disgusting in the future. I woke up this morning and asked myself how I feel about not being able to control myself (ew, ew, ew) and hence acting on an urge, and I didn't feel bad at all, it felt like I would do it again with no hesitation. What is this?! I don't want to be attracted to my brother (or any other child and any member of my family) but it feels like I can't escape as this is my fate now. 

It feels like I shouldn't move on. I need to figure out why all this is happening. I need to know what this is. I don't think I'll ever be able to move on...

I'm so sorry for all this venting, and I apologise for being so needy and for complaining so much, I know it can be really annoying and frustrating, but talking to you is probably the only thing that stops me from going crazy.
I would also like to apologise to anyone who reads these posts and finds them disgusting and offending. 

Thank you so much for help again! You have all my respect and admiration! 

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I know it's counter intuitive, but the only way to make this all go away is to STOP trying to figure it out. You ask what this is, it's OCD, there is your answer. It's difficult and it will take a long time before you see your efforts paying off but I guarantee you that the more time you invest in trying to figure out your intentions, the worse the thoughts will become. I get that this is hard, all of us have at some point been where you are but in order to get better you have to try to see this for what it is and take the advice people are giving you. Hang in there, I'm glad talking to your boyfriend helped. 

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On 25/05/2020 at 19:17, Cora said:

My brother kissed me, I felt a sensation, and I kissed him back as a result of that sensation. I don't know why I did it. It's like I can't control myself. I'm so lost. What is going on? 

On 26/05/2020 at 18:44, Cora said:

If now I kiss him impulsively, how can I know I won't do something even more disgusting in the future. I woke up this morning and asked myself how I feel about not being able to control myself (ew, ew, ew) and hence acting on an urge, and I didn't feel bad at all, it felt like I would do it again with no hesitation. What is this?! I don't want to be attracted to my brother (or any other child and any member of my family) but it feels like I can't escape as this is my fate now. 

Sorry you are continuing to struggle Cora, I understand what it can be like to doubt your own mind, it sucks.  OCD sucks.

Part of the problem right now is you have gotten locked in to a certain black/white mindset.  In particular this idea that expressing physical affection and having positive feelings about it MUST be sexual in nature.  The reality is that showing physical affection, particular towards ones family members is perfectly normal.  Siblings kiss each other, hug each other, tickle each other, etc.  Especially when at least one of them is very young.  So thats part of what you have to work on re-learning/re-accepting, the idea that physical signs of affection are ok.  Its going to be tough, the doubt of OCD will likely hit you here (as its already doing).  You will  have thoughts of "but what if its MORE than normal siblings affection.".  I wish there was a way I could make those doubts simply vanish, where I could give you back the certainty that "normal" people have who don't worry about this.  Unfortunately there is  no short cut.  You have to MAKE yourself believe it.  First, by choosing to act as if its true, act as if these are normal responses (which they are) even though you feel doubt.  It sucks, yes, but you can do it.  You are not a monster for doing it, you are not abusing anyone by doing it.  The more you can behave in a "normal" fashion and response to these situations in a "normal" fashion, the less hold the doubt will have.

Another part of the problem is the leap you are taking between showing some level of physical affection and being a complete monster and doing something awful.  The reality is there is a huge gap between where you are now and where you fear you are/could be.  To you, right now, it FEELS like that gap is small, but the reality is its huge.  Its like your looking through a telescope and believing that the thing you see in the distance is right in front of you.  Right now, again because of OCD, you feel one way, and its a scary way, i get that.  What you have to do is take a leap of faith, to trust that we are not all monsters who are llying to you, but in fact we are helping you see without the telescope.  In time, if you work at it, you'll see it that way too.  You have to trust us and trust yourself.  You are afraid of being a monster, and yes that would be a bad thing, but honestly, if you were really a monster, this wouldn't bother you.  The fact that it does right now is all the proof I need to know that this is OCD and not you really doing something bad.  So try your best to believe us when we tell you this is OCD.  You can HAVE doubt, you don't need to be 100% sure.  It would be nice if you didn't have doubt (ok not just nice, amazing) but since you do (for now at least) you have to take an alternate path.  Its not as comfortable or easy, but its not impossible.  You can do it, have faith in yourself :)

 

 

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