Jump to content
Headwreck

Why is it important that we agree with the thoughts?

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Hi Headwreck,

In my experience, the more I ruminate at times the more I can’t  remember, as it all ends up more jumbled than ever - it really is the nature of the OCD. 

Agreeing with the thought sometimes works for me, it does stop it in it’s tracks at times, but also my therapist suggested I describe the way the OCD was making me feel too. So as a thought comes in for example, instead of ruminating I would say I can feel the OCD is trying to make me anxious and it’s trying to make me question myself again etc. This really works for me at times, as it stops the thought overwhelming me.  

Obviously CBT is the way forward, but could you speak to your doctor about medication if you’re not already on any? I avoided medication for years, and only relented fairly recently, but it’s helped me immensely with the anxiety I felt for years. 

Ah, no one is fed up of you or anything, I think we all really understand and just want to help. The cheating theme was one of my main themes years ago, but it still comes up sometimes now. Last time was a year ago, and I’ve been exactly like you, utterly convinced I’ve cheated. 

My therapist used to say to me by ruminating or carrying out compulsions, you are just playing bat and ball with OCD, and it will always fling that ball back at you harder! I know it’s hard, but try not to play it’s game. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dragonfly. I feel fraudulent a lot of the time when I post as I see so many people in real anguish through no fault of their own yet here I am in a mess of my own creation. Plus it doesn't 'feel' like OCD does, it doesn't have the same 'urge' as my checking OCD etc. I can spot my checking OCD a mile off. This, I don't know I think there is so much truth to it that it's hard to turn a blind eye. I'm still flabbergasted as to how I've lived with this knowledge with no problems before now. 

But thanks, I'm going to keep trying. I either struggle thinking I've done something or struggle with therapy techniques with release as the end goal - if this is OCD of course. Both utterly painful but at least the latter has a positive outcome. If I still feel like something went on after following therapy techniques and lifting this anxiety and fog then that's where I have to think about tackling it as a true problem. 

PB, sorry. I am just feeling sorry for myself, I would rather it that people were blunt and to the point as there is no other way to be as far as I'm concerned. I think I have a complex about people liking or disliking me so I feel isolated and ostracised quite a lot! 

Edited by Headwreck

Share this post


Link to post

Head, I know you have a hard time seeing the OCD but you've got to trust that we see it as plain as day. Your second to last post is you ruminating. It's you going over that night, trying to figure out what happened, etc. That right there is your main compulsion. That is what is keeping you stuck.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Headwreck, my checking OCD doesn’t feel the same as my cheating OCD either. I also have magical thinking OCD, which again doesn’t feel the same as those. 

I have quite a few themes, and most effect me differently. I think the cheating OCD, and any that leads me to ruminate is worse for me personally  though, as the checking OCD I can go back if in the car, or re check a lock etc, and if I can refuse to check and wait for the anxiety to go down, I have the added security that when I go home later, the proof will be the door is still closed and locked etc. With any OCD where it makes me ruminate though, the cycle is looking for evidence that I didn’t cheat for example, but never really getting the ultimate proof, so having to live with the uncertainty, which is so hard - not sure if all that makes sense. 

Also OCD’s aim is to make us doubt ourselves, and in turn make us feel like frauds at times. It chips  and chips away. 

 

 

Edited by Dragonfly

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Head, I know you have a hard time seeing the OCD but you've got to trust that we see it as plain as day. Your second to last post is you ruminating. It's you going over that night, trying to figure out what happened, etc. That right there is your main compulsion. That is what is keeping you stuck.

 

I know, as per usual you're 100% correct about the rumination and I truly understand that it doesn't help that I keep doing it but no matter what I do I can't stop it. But, and this is 100% true, I went out that night hoping something would happen. I thought doing that would stop the pain and 'even the odds' because my partner had cheated (he hasn't as far as I am aware but for 4 years I convinced myself he had. The irony is that it doesn't bother me at all now). So the intention was there. Most cases are fueled by the doubt something happened because the person wasn't in a position where it would have. I put myself in a position where I wanted it to happen so God knows what happened. 

I do feel trapped. Absolutely. This has been 9 months now. I feel hopeless and undeserving of sympathy or help because I made my bed and now I'm lying in it. I often think it would be easier if I wasn't here. Or if I commited a terrible crime it would be easier to live with than this. How pathetic. 

Edited by Headwreck

Share this post


Link to post

Remember folks, any OCD theme is still just OCD. 

It follows therefore that we apply the same thinking, the same behavioural changes whatever the theme. 

Bear in mind though that with themes like paedophile, harm, sexual preference,amongst others, the OCD takes one or more of our true core character values, then alleges the opposite is true. 

Learn to look for the core belief the OCD wants you to believe, then determine to fight the feelings that it is, or might be, true. It lies, it fabricates, it exaggerates it alleges the opposite to a true core value. 

Knowing this will help us "uncloak" the OCD whatever its theme. 

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Headwreck, my checking OCD doesn’t feel the same as my cheating OCD either. I also have magical thinking OCD, which again doesn’t feel the same as those. 

I have quite a few themes, and most effect me differently. I think the cheating OCD, and any that leads me to ruminate is worse for me personally  though, as the checking OCD I can go back if in the car, or re check a lock etc, and if I can refuse to check and wait for the anxiety to go down, I have the added security that when I go home later, the proof will be the door is still closed and locked etc. With any OCD where it makes me ruminate though, the cycle is looking for evidence that I didn’t cheat for example, but never really getting the ultimate proof, so having to live with the uncertainty, which is so hard - not sure if all that makes sense. 

Also OCD’s aim is to make us doubt ourselves, and in turn make us feel like frauds at times. It chips  and chips away. 

 

 

Dragonfly, you hit the nail on the head I think and I've never seen it this way so thank you so much. The checking OCD, for example I'll go home from work on Friday worried because I didn't do my "weekly check" (I'm trying to stop doing it) but as you say, I'll know next time I go to work if everything was okay or not. This on the other hand, nope no answers here. Part of me hopes the guy in question turns up to my house and says something went on. My world would be shattered but at least this would all be over. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, taurean said:

Remember folks, any OCD theme is still just OCD. 

It follows therefore that we apply the same thinking, the same behavioural changes whatever the theme. 

Bear in mind though that with themes like paedophile, harm, sexual preference,amongst others, the OCD takes one or more of our true core character values, then alleges the opposite is true. 

Learn to look for the core belief the OCD wants you to believe, then determine to fight the feelings that it is, or might be, true. It lies, it fabricates, it exaggerates it alleges the opposite to a true core value. 

Knowing this will help us "uncloak" the OCD whatever its theme. 

Hi Taurean, I've seen this 'core belief' term a lot but I don't really understand how I find this out. My therapist seems to think I'm scared of doing something wrong, but that doesn't feel like it's it. Do you have any methods on how to find this out? Thank you in advance. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 27/06/2018 at 19:02, gingerbreadgirl said:

I think that any method which involves stopping compulsions is going to help.

I would just say that - as I see it - if you resist agreeing with the thoughts because it makes you uncomfortable or afraid, you are sending your mind the message that the thoughts should be feared.  If you agree with the thoughts you are, as others have said, giving the OCD nowhere to run.

I like this.

Its like when I'm feeling totally vulnerable and very afraid of the thoughts I just let myself feel exposed, then the thoughts usually subside as I don't care how I look even if very scared + worried, tired.

Share this post


Link to post

It does feel peculiar (good way) + like a miracle sometimes . As what I thought was on my nose vanishes

Share this post


Link to post
On 27/06/2018 at 15:24, Headwreck said:

I know that an important part of the therapy process is agreeing with the thoughts. Why is this? Is it to give OCD nowhere to go? Or to get used to the idea that we have done things we are accusing ourselves/other things of? 

I always have these questions for my therapist but when I'm in there I forget to ask. Thanks. 

On 27/06/2018 at 19:02, gingerbreadgirl said:

I think that any method which involves stopping compulsions is going to help.

I would just say that - as I see it - if you resist agreeing with the thoughts because it makes you uncomfortable or afraid, you are sending your mind the message that the thoughts should be feared.  If you agree with the thoughts you are, as others have said, giving the OCD nowhere to 

great forum headwreck! Your therapist sounds great . Good luck!

 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Headwreck said:

Hi Taurean, I've seen this 'core belief' term a lot but I don't really understand how I find this out. My therapist seems to think I'm scared of doing something wrong, but that doesn't feel like it's it. Do you have any methods on how to find this out? Thank you in advance. 

https://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?/topic/78918-ocd-core-beliefs-and-how-they-cause-such-damage-to-us/

This link will help. 

Share this post


Link to post

Also see this explanation of the downward arrow method used to seek out a core belief that isn't obvious to spot. 

When a core belief isn't obvious clinical psychologists use the "downward arrow"  principle to look to find it. 

You can yourself try the downward arrow principle to find out what the core belief is that is causing you a problem. 

On a piece of paper write down a statement as to what you think is your OCD issue. 

 
Then underneath it, draw a downward arrow and then write in the answer to this question. If this were true, why would it be so bad?


After writing in the answer,  put in another downward arrow underneath, and ask the same question again.


Keep going until no further answer is possible – your last answer should reveal the core belief.

Edited by taurean

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, taurean said:

Also see this explanation of the downward arrow method used to seek out a core belief that isn't obvious to spot. 

When a core belief isn't obvious clinical psychologists use the "downward arrow"  principle to look to find it. 

You can yourself try the downward arrow principle to find out what the core belief is that is causing you a problem. 

On a piece of paper write down a statement as to what you think is your OCD issue. 

 
Then underneath it, draw a downward arrow and then write in the answer to this question. If this were true, why would it be so bad?


After writing in the answer,  put in another downward arrow underneath, and ask the same question again.


Keep going until no further answer is possible – your last answer should reveal the core belief.

Thank you very much for this. I've given this a go and it's not as simple as I thought it would be. I can't seem to get to an answer, in a way I'm even struggling on the second downward arrow and I don't know why.

Has anyone else struggled? I thought this would be straight forward? It doesn't feel like a fear, more like a denial to me, maybe that's why I can't get an answer? 

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Hi Headwreck,

OK so you're worried you've cheated on your partner.  If you have cheated, what would be so bad about that? Why do you care?

 

Hey GBG. 

Because I've betrayed his trust and it would hurt him. And because it's not a 'clean sheet' anymore. I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like everything is tainted, I have a mark against my name? Does that make sense? I guess this answer is too long. This is the trouble I have!

 

Thanks for the help btw. 

Edited by Headwreck

Share this post


Link to post

What about the probability that what you've put him through these past nine months far exceeds what he would go through if you did in fact cheat. Chew on that for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

What about the probability that what you've put him through these past nine months far exceeds what he would go through if you did in fact cheat. Chew on that for a while.

I know. I am very distant with him and don't show much affection, he keeps saying he feels like he is alone and he feels like I don't love him. But if I'm nice to him and I've done it then it's covering up. It's very difficult. 

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

OK so why does it matter if you have broken his trust?  Lots of people don't care about that.  So why does it matter to you?

Because it would hurt him and we would split up because I'd have to tell him so I'd lose everything him, my home, pets etc. He is so selfless and puts me first for everything, puts everything on the line for me.

Share this post


Link to post

See for me it seems like there is too much of an answer. I overanalyse absolutely everything all the time in general so it ends up feeling forced or wrong.

Share this post


Link to post

OK so based on what you've said... could your core belief be something like this...?

- if my boyfriend left me I wouldn't be able to cope

- I am not good enough for my boyfriend

- Even one mistake makes me unforgivable, there is no mid ground

Do any of those resonate or something else? I'm not saying any of those are the case.  I just think if you can get to the very core of what is driving your fear you can work on ay rigid/faulty intepretations going on. Doing this has REALLY helped me with my OCD.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

OK so based on what you've said... could your core belief be something like this...?

- if my boyfriend left me I wouldn't be able to cope

- I am not good enough for my boyfriend

- Even one mistake makes me unforgivable, there is no mid ground

Do any of those resonate or something else? I'm not saying any of those are the case.  I just think if you can get to the very core of what is driving your fear you can work on ay rigid/faulty intepretations going on. Doing this has REALLY helped me with my OCD.

 

 

Thanks GBG.

I think the first one really is a big one. Like massive. I rely on him heavily as I don't have any friends anymore and family are not really there for me so we are extremely codependent and only have one another. I also think I'd probably end my life if he left me as I'd be entirely alone with nowhere to go, my mums house is inhabitable as far as I'm concerned and my family don't care about me really. Part of me wonders if that fueled the past obsession that lasted four years (convinced he had cheated) too. Although with that being said, the 'one mistake' also resonates slightly as if I had cheated, mistake or not, he would not forgive under any circumstances and I couldn't live with it myself personally without telling him as I believe in 100% honesty. Even when he told me to keep it to myself, I just couldn't do it. It's so confusing as I see everyone talking about core beliefs etc and I'm unsure I even have one! 

Edited by Headwreck

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think it's essential to get to the bottom of your core belief to treat OCD (I am certainly not an expert so can't give you any definite advice about this.) I think even if you do pin it down, the process would be the same - to challenge it using behavioural experiments and deeveloping a cognitive understanding of how compulsions are keeping it alive, it is a problem of worry, etc.

However to me it does seem that your core fear relates to feeling you would be unable to cope on your own, that it would be intolerable.  I think if you look at this belief and find a more flexible way of looking at it you may find it easier to address your OCD.  Obviously nobody wants their partner to leave them or to be alone.  But most people go about their lives without excessively worrying about this so they must be approaching this fear in a different way to how you're approaching it.  If you look at this belief of "I couldn't cope if my boyfriend left me" and try switching it to "it would be difficult if my boyfriend left me but I would find a way to deal with it.  I have dealt with difficult situations in the past such as XYZ."  I think if you can practise looking at it more flexibly and less rigidly it may help you.

Feel free to ignore me, obviously I'm not a therapist so I could be talking a load of rubbish! I just know that addressing my own core beliefs around morality and working to replace them with something more realistic and flexible has really helped me.  It's an ongoing process but I don't think I could push through my recent OCD relapse without doing this.

Share this post


Link to post
40 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I don't think it's essential to get to the bottom of your core belief to treat OCD (I am certainly not an expert so can't give you any definite advice about this.) I think even if you do pin it down, the process would be the same - to challenge it using behavioural experiments and deeveloping a cognitive understanding of how compulsions are keeping it alive, it is a problem of worry, etc.

However to me it does seem that your core fear relates to feeling you would be unable to cope on your own, that it would be intolerable.  I think if you look at this belief and find a more flexible way of looking at it you may find it easier to address your OCD.  Obviously nobody wants their partner to leave them or to be alone.  But most people go about their lives without excessively worrying about this so they must be approaching this fear in a different way to how you're approaching it.  If you look at this belief of "I couldn't cope if my boyfriend left me" and try switching it to "it would be difficult if my boyfriend left me but I would find a way to deal with it.  I have dealt with difficult situations in the past such as XYZ."  I think if you can practise looking at it more flexibly and less rigidly it may help you.

Feel free to ignore me, obviously I'm not a therapist so I could be talking a load of rubbish! I just know that addressing my own core beliefs around morality and working to replace them with something more realistic and flexible has really helped me.  It's an ongoing process but I don't think I could push through my recent OCD relapse without doing this.

No I honestly really appreciate the input, thanks so much for spending the time considering approaches with me. Everyone here has been great even though it must be very frustrating. I think this might help me as it's not something I've actively considered before. When I read this earlier I kind of felt a relief because it felt as though it could be behind it. Are core beliefs and core values two separate things, I guess they are? I'm not sure why but I always thought the core belief would be directly linked to the act/obsession of the moment if that makes sense? 

I'm also going to have to quit my therapy as I can't afford it, I've continued to go but in turn I'm struggling financially so I'm going to reluctantly have to stop. Do you have any suggestions self help wise that you'd consider as a good one to start off with? I've got the book called Brainlock but if I'm honest, I don't find that very good at all, that's just my opinion and maybe I'm expecting something else from self help guides. 

Edited by Headwreck

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...