Hygiene /contamination etc.

[gingerbreadgirl]

My partner has recently been told she has a low white blood cell count and is therefore more prone to bacterial infections than the average person.

This has made my ocd go crazy and I feel like I have to keep everything super clean or I may be responsible for giving her an infection. 

I know that I am already sensible with hygiene and logically do not need to do anything special but I am running away with all the potential contamination I bring into the house by touching things that others have touched who may not have washed their hands etc etc. I am thinking of special measures I could take but then nothing seems to be enough. 

Please can someone give me a kick up the bum and bring me back down to earth before I run a million miles with this?? 

[BigDave]

I think it’s my turn to return the favour for you GBG. Okay, so your partner has a low white count. First things first. Did the Doctor tell her to take any particular measures? If they did, then that would be a good starting point. 

But basically, the NHS gives some really good guidelines as to what to do. 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/low-white-blood-cell-count/

if when you come home essentially, you wash your hands and store your food in the right way, then you should be completely fine. Please note that you need not so excessively more. Once you are home and you have washed your hands, it should be a non-issue. I also think I’m right in understanding that if you have pets, if they are indoor, then your fine. 

I know that the urge is to do much more than that but these are the only simple things that need be done. 

[BigDave]

Just to reiterate, as long as you sensibly wash your hands when you come into your home, then I can’t see anything else that you could do to bring in infection. As long as you aren’t working in an Ebola research laboratory. 

Also, if your partner is out at work too, she has to take these precautions herself. You are a smart woman and I’m sure you aren’t living a sewer so I’m pretty confident you are doing everything you need to

[taurean]

Dave has it spot on. 

OCD is playing it's "responsibility for harm to others"  card plus an exaggerated need for extreme, rather than standard, measures. 

Don't play its game, don't get sucked in, GBG. 

Roy 

Edited December 27, 2018 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks v much dave and Roy for your kind words and good advice  

At the moment the doctor just wants to monitor it. I guess to see if it gets worse or if it improves. 

I am pretty hygienic (too much so probably in recent months since all this took off) and I already wash my hands whenever I come in etc. My big worry is my phone. What if at work I touch a door handle someone else touches and then I contaminate my phone? I often touch my phone when cooking, what if I get germs in the food? Then there's going to the loo what if I get germs say on my sleeve and then I pull my sleeve up when cooking? 

My temptation is to clean my phone every day but I have resisted doing that because it's compulsive. 

My partner is mega clean and has her own issues around contamination so I have no real normal reference point for all this! I've just been to stay with my family and all I could think was how "dirty" they are (my family is v clean and tidy!) 

I know all this is crazy and I am trying to resist it as much as possible. 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[BigDave]

5 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Thanks v much dave and Roy for your kind words and good advice  

At the moment the doctor just wants to monitor it. I guess to see if it gets worse or if it improves. 

I am pretty hygienic (too much so probably in recent months since all this took off) and I already wash my hands whenever I come in etc. My big worry is my phone. What if at work I touch a door handle someone else touches and then I contaminate my phone? I often touch my phone when cooking, what if I get germs in the food? Then there's going to the loo what if I get germs say on my sleeve and then I pull my sleeve up when cooking? 

My temptation is to clean my phone every day but I have resisted doing that because it's compulsive. 

My partner is mega clean and has her own issues around contamination so I have no real normal reference point for all this! I've just been to stay with my family and all I could think was how "dirty" they are (my family is v clean and tidy!) 

I know all this is crazy and I am trying to resist it as much as possible. 

 

Hey I hear what you are saying. Remember, I am the man with the poo phobia. 

But look, firstly, it’s like you said to me earlier. The truth is is that there is contaminants everywhere and we can only do what we can in a sensible manner. Yes, I I understand, believe me, that by touching a door handle that someone else touches might cause you concern. But a) you are assuming whatever you touch is going to survive for a long period of time, when it probably won’t and b) she does have a low white blood cell count but she still has some immune system and it’s more than likely that whatever is around isn’t so toxic that it is a cause for concern. Also, if you were to check, you would actually see that flu or cold viruses can’t actually survive for very long at all on hands or tissues and the chances of them causing problems are minimal. 

That being said, if you had a real worry and wanted to be extra careful, you could be an antibacterial screen wipe tub for £5 and wipe your phone down once when you come in the house but I’m sure my therapist might even argue that was excessive. 

Regarding anything per say that you carry in terms of loo germs, well, since you are partners, I’m pretty sure she has developed some sort of immunity to by now! Also, I think this is another example of OCD overstating the power of your toxicity to the world. 

I hope this helps. 

[Avo]

sorry to hear this GBG about your OH hope she is coping ok? Just take the doctors advice in monitoring the condition

 I think there has been some excellent posting from Dave there not sure I can add anything in regards to your OCD slant on things. Hope things are ok with you both.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks v much both. Her count isn't low enough to be really serious just low enough to be a concern that needs keeping an eye on. She's had a few blood tests showing this in recent years but only recently has the doctor started wanting to investigate and being concerned about infections etc. Which has freaked me out a bit. 

I understand what you're saying about not going to excessive measures. I guess I just feel like contaminants are everywhere and there's no way of getting rid of them so what's the point in getting rid of some of them, and where do I draw that line?

I know this is irrational because my partner kisses our cat all the time and our cat is way more unhygienic than anything i bring in haha! And that's not made her ill yet!

Thanks again   x 

Edited December 28, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[BigDave]

Totally get what you are saying and I think the answer to your question is not to ruminate over this too much. Because pondering over it excessively is just the same as doing another compulsion. 

Go about your day and be your usual hygienic self. You’ve already said you are a very clean person. So just do what you have been doing and you will be fine. If your partner is snogging the cat, she is obviously less concerned than you are! . 

Seriously though, it’s obvious you are struggling but the OCD is there and it’s making you ponder and question yourself when there is no reason to. Like you said, nowhere is perfectly clean. You  can’t get perfectly clean. So it’s a matter of being good enough and I believe you are already  there. I’m sure if your partner had any concerns she’d also say. 

Go about enjoying your day. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

That's all true dave and v good advice as usual!  

My being clean and hygienic is an ocd thing. I never used to be that bothered about it, only in recent months, so I am struggling to do what I need to do to challenge that while also being mindful of this diagnosis. I find it very hard to draw the line. I wish I could go back to how things used to be!

Haha I just asked my partner why she doesn't mind kissing the cat and yet freaks out if I touch the bin! She had no answer and knows it is totally illogical!

Thanks again and hope you're OK   

[BigDave]

I understand completely how ridiculous OCD can be so I know where you are coming from. 

Also, it’s funny you mention the bin because if your cats are anything like mine, they brush against the bin all the time. And yet we stroke them and kiss them without a second’s thought. 

I really hope you can enjoy your day and you and your partner have a lovely holiday time free from that damned bully! (Not the cat)

[taurean]

4 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

. I guess I just feel like contaminants are everywhere and there's no way of getting rid of them so what's the point in getting rid of some of them, and where do I draw that line?

I have the T-shirt for this thinking GBG, it's how I was and it is  so so OCD. 

I used to think that triggers were everywhere I looked. But now I don't see them, which is the correct end for the chess tournament that is cognitive behavioural therapy. 

There is no especial threat to OH. Carry on as normal, with sensible cleanliness, and don't listen to the OCD and its what ifs and the excess sense of responsibility it seeks to impose. 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

1 hour ago, BigDave said:

I understand completely how ridiculous OCD can be so I know where you are coming from. 

Also, it’s funny you mention the bin because if your cats are anything like mine, they brush against the bin all the time. And yet we stroke them and kiss them without a second’s thought. 

I really hope you can enjoy your day and you and your partner have a lovely holiday time free from that damned bully! (Not the cat)

Yeah my partner is quite happy to kiss the cat but not stroke her without washing hey hands after! It's crazy and she fully admits that haha! Thanks dave  

[gingerbreadgirl]

30 minutes ago, taurean said:

I have the T-shirt for this thinking GBG, it's how I was and it is  so so OCD. 

I used to think that triggers were everywhere I looked. But now I don't see them, which is the correct end for the chess tournament that is cognitive behavioural therapy. 

There is no especial threat to OH. Carry on as normal, with sensible cleanliness, and don't listen to the OCD and its what ifs and the excess sense of responsibility it seeks to impose. 

 

Thanks Roy, you are quite right I know  

[gingerbreadgirl]

I have a couple of questions to gauge what is normal:

1) do normal people clean their phones on a regular (daily) basis?

2) do normal people handle their phone /iPad etc while preparing food?

Thank you! 

[PolarBear]

No and yes. I haven't cleaned my phone for a month and that was to get rid of a buildup of fingerprints, not germs. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thanks pb. 

[taurean]

I clean this phone periodically with gadget wipes, which so far as I know aren't disinfectant. 

Periodically is probably once a month. 

If the phone rang while handling food I might  probably wash my hands again before returning to the food - but only because I would treat that as a normal level of food hygiene. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

That's interesting Roy thanks  the reason I ask is because I handle my phone a lot while cooking. I can't really wash my hands every time (and trying to is part of the issue). E.g. I look up recipes online, put music on etc. Do you think it would be a sensible level of hygiene to avoid doing this? 

Edited December 28, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[gingerbreadgirl]

OK so I've decided I'm just going to clean my phone once a day when I get in and leave it at that. Then I can handle it as normal and do whatever I want without constantly worrying, hand washing etc. 

[taurean]

No I don't think so, I think carrying on normally would be right. 

Our work surfaces are cleaned periodically but not daily - that is our norm. When Julie was very sick with hypothyroidism and her immune system was severely weakened, this level of cleanliness proved to be quite alright. 

In fact I felt she was less likely here to pick up infection than she would have been if they had hospitalised her. 

[Avo]

I clean my phone every now and then, maybe once a month or so with anti-bacterial spray.

I do handle my phone while cooking, If I was just chopping veg etc not sure if I would wash hands again before going back to food preparation. I would probably answer phone too in middle of food prep, the exception being if I was handling raw meat. I would wash hands before touching phone. 

hope this helps 

[BigDave]

Hello. Just to add to this. I wipe my phone periodically but a lot less than I used to. And with regards to preparing food, as a lot of food is cooked, then I would assume that the cooking process kills a lot of the bacteria anyway. That or I burn food. But seriously, if you were handling raw meats or something like that, sure, I’d have caution when using my phone but that’s more that I wouldn’t want raw meat juice on my phone than anything else. I think if you look on amazon too, there are a lot of gadgets out there for the very purposes of placing your iPhone or iPad in the kitchen while cooking and a plethora of cookbooks to match. So I think you’d not be an anomaly in that you do this. 

Personally, I think the important thing to do here is to just accept these thoughts as OCD thoughts and move forward and that’s only because otherwise we could get into an infinity loop here of checking each thing and that in itself is compulsive. For me, personally, I get the impression you are a clean person and I think you shouldn’t doubt yourself and get on with things as what would be a sensible level. Otherwise you will just be reaffirming your anxiety. I’ll give you an example, I just went into the kitchen and my mum was preparing to put the trash in a back bag. At that time, the empty bag touched my leg and I freaked because I have no idea what else it touched. I ended up wiping my leg and I know now that doing that really just added to the anxiety in the long run because I performed a compulsion. I am playing a game of chance that my leg is ok and that no harm will come to me. It won’t. And I’m sure if a normal person did what I did that they’d not even blink or bother. Indeed, my mum has to answer the phone and she put the bag on the work surface and it would have touched her too. She isn’t running to change her clothes. The risk is in our head. Just like the risk you are worrying over is overstated. Can you unequivocally say that your phone might get contaminated? Perhaps not but the likelihood that anything that reaches your phone would be significantly harmful is unlikely. A lot of stuff is airborne even and how can you protect from that? Stay healthy. Do normal cleaning things and you will be fine!

[Gemma7]

2 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

OK so I've decided I'm just going to clean my phone once a day when I get in and leave it at that. Then I can handle it as normal and do whatever I want without constantly worrying, hand washing etc. 

This is a bad idea, don't go there. I've washed phones, I've ruined phones, washing just in case is a terrible idea, why stop here, what about door handles and your clothes, need I go on. It's a slippery slope into more cleaning compulsions and I really don't want you to end up there because this is how it starts. 

Don't wash your phone, rub it everywhere when you get in and tell OCD to get lost.

[PolarBear]

Gemma is right. You decided to clean your phone once a day. But why are you going to clean it? Not because it's dirty... because, just in case. Not good enough and it's a compulsion.

Edited December 28, 2018 by PolarBear