Lost all hope.

[humbleno1]

This disorder pretty much ruins lives, I for one think its a disgrace the stigma around intrusive thoughts and I think it is directly responsible for peoples suffering! I dont even know why I post here, this disorder ruined my life! ruined it nobody else has to deal with this, and nobody else ruins and self sabotages like this does! I dont even know why I post this, im just someone crying out in the wilderness of a horrific mess.

 

[jlmdfem]

Hi

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. I know exactly how it feels to feel so helpless, it's horrible. But remember it is a disorder that is manageable! Are you seeing a counsellor?

[BM94]

7 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

This disorder pretty much ruins lives, I for one think its a disgrace the stigma around intrusive thoughts and I think it is directly responsible for peoples suffering! I dont even know why I post here, this disorder ruined my life! ruined it nobody else has to deal with this, and nobody else ruins and self sabotages like this does! I dont even know why I post this, im just someone crying out in the wilderness of a horrific mess.

Please don't lose hope. You have to be bigger, better and stronger than OCD. Yeah it's a nasty horrible little beast but just remember you're not alone and we all have a responsibility I feel to make the world understand what this is and what it feels like and how it feels like it can completely ruin your life.

It's been such a hard time for me the last few months, I have begged and begged anyone to just make it all stop and when it becomes that unbearable, your OCD takes a firmer grip on you. Don't let it!

Look at all those non-sufferers out there who just crack on with life; what will be will be. You just have to live like that with no compulsions, no avoidance and on a day-to-day basis you will feel better and better. It's hard as hell but we're more interesting people this way! - We have a story to tell the world. Tell it.

[paradoxer]

18 hours ago, BM94 said:

Look at all those non-sufferers out there who just crack on with life; what will be will be.

Maybe even more important ... Look at all those sufferers out there who just crack on with life; what will be will be.

[dksea]

19 hours ago, BM94 said:

Look at all those non-sufferers out there who just crack on with life

 

1 hour ago, paradoxer said:

Maybe even more important ... Look at all those sufferers out there who just crack on with life;

Both good points, and I'll add one more.  Just because you see other people around you getting on with life doesn't mean they are not also suffering with something.  We often overlook the fact that just because you can't see someone else struggling doesn't mean they aren't.  After all many OCD sufferers are VERY clever at hiding their own struggles from the people around them.  Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone around you is carefree living these easy, perfect, lives.  Life can be unfair and hard, and its totally reasonable to get frustrated and wish things were better.  We all deserve to vent, we all deserve to have times were we feel down, no one should be expected to be cheerful and positive 100% of the time. BUT its also important to remember that everyone struggles.  Maybe they have OCD, or depression.  Maybe they have cancer, or diabetes, or celiac disease, or arthritis.  Maybe they have a bad job, or heavy debt, or an abusive spouse.  Maybe their trouble is temporary, maybe its chronic.  Maybe they've been more lucky in life than most, or maybe they've had it way worse than average.  Maybe things are going great for them now, but they are about to hit a REAL bad spot.  Try try try not to judge yourself and your life by what you think others lives are like, its easy to be wrong.  Instead focus on what you can do for your own life, and to do what you can to get help when its available.  Yes it sucks you have OCD, thats unfair, thats cruel.  But since you can't just wave a wand and make it vanish, you might as well try and live life anyway, because the alternative is not even worth considering.  If you fight and move forward you have the possibility of recovery and hope and better days.  People with OCD CAN find happiness, they CAN overcome the roadblocks OCD puts in their way, they CAN find success.  So can you, really.  Beating OCD isn't a matter of talent or skill, its a matter of stubbornness and hard work.  Anyone can be stubborn, anyone can work hard.  Do the best that you can, thats all you can ask from yourself and all anybody has the right to ask from you.  I genuinely believe that if you do that, you can improve.  We all can.

[paradoxer]

^ Spot on. OCD can sometimes lead to morose self-absorption. Context. 

[Hopingtorecover]

Thanks @dksea I needed to hear that today 

[humbleno1]

Well I personally feel not to diminish anyones suffering but that not all ocd is equal, especially compulsions that lead to some sort of real life consequence for instance a guy with POCD, is not going to get the same stigma as HOCD or ROCD.

We need to stop underestimating this disorder in terms of, just how much it can damage lives. For instance people losing jobs, being investigated etc. Not being able to adopt, being arrested, compulsions leading to illness. This is sorely overlooked not to instill fear, but there is much to be made of the benign nature of OCD, and benign nature of thoughts but, its not. Doing compulsions can quite literally ruin lives, beyond functionability! Not enough is said about this.

[BM94]

I totally get where you're coming from humbleno1, and as someone who suffers from Harm OCD, POCD, Hit and Run OCD, basically all the most horrific things that one can do to harm another is what goes through my head on a daily basis. When I sit there sometimes I do think about it as me having the very worst manifestation of OCD out of everyone else, and why did it have to affect me as badly as it has. I worry that one day the blue lights will be flashing out my window and that will be it, I'll be locked up for any of the above, disowned by family and friends and killed in prison.. it terrifies me! 

But I can genuinely say that I've been doing my absolute best to stop all my compulsions; checking I didn't slip a knife into my pocket when leaving the house, checking inside my shoes for blades, checking where all the harmful substances are in the vicinity, avoiding kids and elderly people, looking back in my rearview mirror, avoiding certain roads, looking back to check people I had just walked past are ok, checking that I hadn't put nasty online content or racist comments on my social media and checking internet history, going back and turning my computer on and off and on and off again just to be sure, thinking neutralizing thoughts, telling myself constantly that they're just thoughts, staying in bed all day because it feels better that way.

I pretty much have tried to quit cold turkey with all of this stuff and more, and it has really truly helped me (I still struggle don't get me wrong and sometimes I'll break down and do a compulsion). I genuinely can flick the switch now to be like "oh whatever, it is what it is, don't do anything about that, there's no need to do anything about it". I still have the anxiety that causes every minute of the day but I feel a little bit more in control of OCD when not living by its rules. 

I was going to go back and check that I hadn't knocked someone off their moped thing on the highway on Monday because I just had to be sure - but then I knew I would be late home to have birthday cake with my Ma, and going back to check would mean I wouldn't be able to get home in time.. so I went straight home. I enjoyed my cake with my Ma and I'm absolutely fine right now. I felt like I won an oscar for my performance!!

We can beat this thing! Even those of us with harmful OCD thoughts.

[dksea]

2 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

We need to stop underestimating this disorder in terms of, just how much it can damage lives. For instance people losing jobs, being investigated etc. Not being able to adopt, being arrested, compulsions leading to illness. This is sorely overlooked not to instill fear, but there is much to be made of the benign nature of OCD, and benign nature of thoughts but, its not. Doing compulsions can quite literally ruin lives, beyond functionability! Not enough is said about this.

Absolutely OCD has a negative impact on our lives, we wouldn't be here if that wasn't true, but the purpose of THIS sub-forum is to help and support people with recovery from OCD.  Ruminating on the negative aspects of OCD isn't going to do that.  Raising awareness and acceptance of mental health issues like OCD and discussing the instances where society fails in that regard are important conversations to be had, but in the proper place and time.  There is the OCD Awareness sub-forum that would be the proper place for discussing those concerns (https://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?/forum/9-ocd-awareness-the-positive-and-negative/) as an example.

Sure we all get frustrated and we all need to vent sometimes, thats understandable.  But I don't think any of us are underestimating OCD and the harm it can do given that pretty much all of us who post here experience it first hand.

[paradoxer]

I've seen no evidence on this forum of anyone underestimating the disorder. 

[humbleno1]

Sorry for the negativity, ive just never seen the emphasis placed on what compulsions can lead to other than feeding the disorder really in general. And I think that its important. I remember an interview with dr phillipson saying one of his patients literally had to compulse and touch a wire that could have killed him, and I cant recall if he did or didnt. But I think we need to recognise compulsions can be actually dangerous, in a way more than just oh its going to get you further focused on your fear! thats all im saying, Ive never been dissuaded to do a compulsion by the possible consequences of it, because anxiety always overdrives and you literally arent thinking straight. I just think we need to may be say to people when they are talking about compulsions, you know like more of hey if you do that compulsion, something really bad could happen, that compulsion could actually impact your life. Rather than dont do the compulsion it feeds the disorder.

Edited November 21, 2019 by humbleno1

[PolarBear]

I understand what you are saying, humble. By and large those types of compulsions are relatively rare. I've only come across a few of them in my five and a half years here.

Those people who do compulsions that constitute illegal or dangerous behaviors, for the most part, know they are illegal or dangerous.

There are far more people who think they have done domething illegal or dangerous who actually haven't. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by PolarBear

[paradoxer]

Yes, I remember the Phillipson story. As I recall, the patient did touch the wire. Luckily it was off at the time. Just the other day, I cited the time I was so busy ruminating I almost stepped into fast moving traffic. It could possibly have been fatal. Rather than some gloomy panic (life is a dangerous affair with or without OCD), I see that as all the more incentive to beat the disorder. 

[dksea]

9 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

ive just never seen the emphasis placed on what compulsions can lead to other than feeding the disorder really in general. And I think that its important. I remember an interview with dr phillipson saying one of his patients literally had to compulse and touch a wire that could have killed him, and I cant recall if he did or didnt. But I think we need to recognise compulsions can be actually dangerous, in a way more than just oh its going to get you further focused on your fear!

I understand that you have concerns about this and I can appreciate why, but I think this type of worry is, itself, OCD driven.  I think you are overestimating significantly the level of risk associated with compulsive behavior to do actual harm in most situations.  While it IS possible, I don't think there is a strong need to have it be a regular part of discussions and feedback when helping people with recovery.  If someone were to discuss specific behavior that could be risky, sure we can address it then, but as a general rule I think the focus that is most important is getting people to recognize that compulsions are primarily bad because they empower OCD and prevent recovery.

[paradoxer]

That self-absorbed selfish my suffering is worse than anyone else's shtick is part of OCD's calling card. In saying that, I'm taking the disorder to task, far more than any sufferer. But, I think it's important to be aware of. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by paradoxer

[humbleno1]

I just seem to be punished by my compulsions alot that either end up in real life coincidences which only create more uncertainty or actual results of my compulsions, which believe me are some bad things, so when I hear people have done compulsions and it never effects there lives maybe I just got really unlucky.

For instance I went to the police about an ocd thought - I now have a record of suspicion documented - it will interfere with me working with vp, not that I want to but the point is that was a real life consequence, aswell as stigma - all because of a compulsion now, I never thought about that, all that mattered to me was proving im innocent to myself.

Another example I took an unprescribed pill in regards to health anxieties, which I had some sort of reaction to, and left me with some conditions that have worsened my physical health dramatically and my mental health even - again all because I did something out of fear, and manifested it into REALITY.

And as you know im going through a very similar thing now.

Not only does this, hurt, to the point of being in despair, but also, it strengthens ocd and anxiety to the point of how much you must believe in the negative outcome, I dunno I think ive been really unlucky, to be so punished by these compulsions like this. Sometimes wonder if it might surpass ocd, I never seem to have the insight into ocd to act accordingly especially now with my memory being so bad, I should have learnt from these things, but again, I never expected the outcomes maybe I did of the first one abit more, but who could predict an allergic reaction to a pill. Anyway...yes im self pitying, and this definitely isnt the attitude to have for this disorder, but I just feel that this is someone that not only has lost to the disorder, but someone that has seemingly been punished for having the disorder with more than just more anxiety.

I think these situations although rare can happen to people for instance lets say someone thinks they raped someone, when they were drunk, and they then call that person and explain to them what they think, and then that person then believes what they are saying and decides to pursue charges, when NOTHING has happened, again a manifestation of a real life consequence to a compulsive act of a fictitious thought.

Anyway I think you put it the best paradoxer, you are damned if you do and if you dont either way with ocd, my problem is im don'ting alot more, and you would think I would have learnt that lesson.

Thanks

 

[dksea]

2 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

I just seem to be punished by my compulsions alot that either end up in real life coincidences which only create more uncertainty or actual results of my compulsions, which believe me are some bad things, so when I hear people have done compulsions and it never effects there lives maybe I just got really unlucky.

I think you misunderstand what we are saying here.  Its not about denying the negative effects compulsions can have on peoples lives, its about focusing on that not being helpful.  Absolutely compulsions have a negative impact on peoples lives, but I think you overestimate how much yours effect you vs. other peoples effect them.  There are people who post regularly on the forum whose compulsions consume hours upon hours of their day for basic tasks like taking a shower.  That has lead them to be unable to hold down a job or have a romantic relationship.   Thats a pretty crappy situation to be in too.  Some people have compulsions that prevent them from being able to work in the field they want, some people ruin their relationships over it.  Some people lose their jobs because of the damage their compulsions do either to their ability to do a job well to begin with, or by consuming so much time they never get to the job in the first place.  So again, yes absolutely compulsions can ruin lives, we all KNOW that though.  Thats not news to any of us.  Spending any significant amount of time talking about how much compulsions can screw things up isn't really adding any new information to the conversation.  Basically every OCD sufferer in existence knows that compulsions are hurting them, they would all rather NOT have them.  So what benefit would ruminating about that provide?  In what way would focusing on the possible negative outcomes of a compulsion help someone recover from OCD?  Its like telling a cigarette smoker they'll probably get lung cancer if they keep smoking.  This is not news, telling them the same thing repeatedly is unlikely to have any meaningful impact.  Better to focus on steps they can take to recover, either from OCD or smoking, than to just wallow in the negative consequences.
 

2 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

I think these situations although rare can happen to people for instance lets say someone thinks they raped someone, when they were drunk, and they then call that person and explain to them what they think, and then that person then believes what they are saying and decides to pursue charges, when NOTHING has happened, again a manifestation of a real life consequence to a compulsive act of a fictitious thought.

This is OCD thinking at its core.  You even ADMIT that the situation is rare but you then go on to describe and worry about it as if it is something that should be a high priority.  Its textbook OCD behavior, overvaluing the risk and coming up with "what if" arguments to try and justify that.  Yes the situation you posit COULD happen, so could an infinite number of other ones.  Again, what value does going over those scenarios provide?  How much time should we spend coming up with examples and possibilities where engaging in compulsions could end badly?  What will doing that gain you? Or anyone?  Its not going to change that you have OCD.  Its not going to change what you have to do to recover from OCD.  Its not productive.  Its not beneficial.  But most importantly of all, seldom does applying reason and logic to a compulsion help a person stop.  If it were that simple OCD would be cured by now.  

Heck, look at your own situation, did ending up with a police report on file about you stop you from doing compulsions?  Did having a bad reaction to a pill stop you from doing compulsions?  If thinking about/recognizing the possible negative consequences of a compulsion were enough to stop a person, you should be free by now.  Yet you yourself admit you continue to suffer.  Clearly you recognize the significant negative affects compulsions can have, thats your whole argument after all.  So why would you continue to engage in compulsions?  The answer is because knowing compulsions are bad isn't enough, its not the fix.  So focusing our efforts on getting people to spend more time thinking about the possible bad outcomes of a compulsive behavior isn't productive.  Better to focus on ways that people can change their behavior and what they should be doing instead.  

About the only place I can think of where focusing on the possible negative outcomes is useful in CBT is as an imaginal ERP tool.  But the forums aren't really a very effective tool for ERP given the delayed feedback time in most situations.  The value we can provide is more of support and guidance.

 

2 hours ago, humbleno1 said:

I dunno I think ive been really unlucky, to be so punished by these compulsions like this. Sometimes wonder if it might surpass ocd, I never seem to have the insight into ocd to act accordingly especially now with my memory being so bad, I should have learnt from these things

Two points here.  First, its fairly common for a sufferer to feel their situation is unique, their situation is somehow worse than everyone elses.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it really doesn't matter how your situation compares to mine though.  Whether or not you recover from OCD and improve your life doesn't depend on whether I recovery from OCD and improve my life.  How bad my life is doesn't change what you have to do to recover or vice versa.  Your situation might dictate what kind and how much help you need to change things, or how much effort it might to take to change things, but thats true regardless of my situation or someone elses situation. 

Second, overcoming OCD isn't about cleverness or insight, its about stubbornness and persistence.  You need to unlearn/unhabituate the "wrong" behaviors (compulsions and responses to intrusive thoughts) and start learning/habituating yourself to the "right" behaviors (not doing compulsions, not responding to intrusive thoughts as if they were a big deal, sitting through anxiety, etc.).  Recovery doesn't come from gaining deep understanding or deep insight, it comes from doing the right things and not the wrong things over and over and over.  Reduce your compulsions, sit with your anxiety, change how you respond to intrusive thoughts. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  Its simple, but not easy.  Theres no "aha" moment really, no switch flipping, just gradual change and improvement over time.  Medication can help to varying degrees but changing ones behavior is the core of OCD recovery.  Its not really any deeper than that.

[humbleno1]

All good points^

But I still maintain it could offer incentive to stop, infact im using it now to stop. Maybe im wrong in thinking that would change things for people, I guess you are right but still there is a point where someone stops, maybe when they truly learn they cant escape anxiety/uncertainty ? I don't know.

Your input btw all, is very much appreciated.

[Closed for repairs]

To be fair it often is the "Tipping point" where some one decides that it's time to get help, a lot of us live with the O and the C for years before admitting the D.

Certainly part of the reason I decided that I needed help was an incident involving trying to get debris off a busy road.