Is OCD a chemical imbalance or something you create?

[taurean]

As has been said also on another current thread, the patient must engage with the therapy and believe in it, not the messages their brain is processing in the disorder.

[Franklin12]

There's never going to be an 'easy' way around it I don't think. It's always going to be ultimately about facing your fears and getting brave, with some more complicated cognitive work too but essentially I think it's a disorder of avoidance of fear and negative feelings and unfortunately the 'cure' will most likely involve experiencing these feelings and letting them pass rather than trying to fight them. That's not to say that we just accept the level of fear that develops during the course of OCD - but realising what we do that makes those negative emotions worse is key to recovery.

[taurean]

We can learn wrong ways of thinking and build up layers of OCD and other distortions.

Hence my call for earlier diagnosis and treatment.And encouraging people not to be introvert and secretive about mental health problems bugging them.

Edited April 27, 2016 by taurean

[Ashley]

I'd live for myself and others to be ocd free

It doesn't happen on its own, we have to make it happen and work at it every single day until it's no longer a problem.

[bruces]

I've been having cbt but I'm still at my wits end I don't know where to turn

[Handy]

I'll accept that was a unique treatment approach, but the point is when done right, therapy does not have to take months.

Even Jeff said it takes months, but there is new research on Ketamine & glutamate that seems promising.

[Ashley]

Ketamine research not new, been playing with that for years. Again I'll say we, there's no magic pill for OCD and people need to stop looking or waiting for one.

[bruces]

Ketamine research not new, been playing with that for years. Again I'll say we, there's no magic pill for OCD and people need to stop looking or waiting for one.

Maybe it will be discovered one day.

[taurean]

How? If we allow OCD thoughts to cause avoidance, then that leads to restrictive rules and gradually takes over our lives, how could a pill resolve that?

Making thinking and behavioural changes, standing fast in ERP to face off and reduce the power of intrusions, leaving old unhelpful negative neural pathways and creating and using new positive ones, leaving the past behind, the future to look after itself, and focusing in the present,in the moment.

Not feeling sorry for ourselves or wishing ourselves elsewhere. When we look around and determine to minimise the negative, maximise the positive, we can totally change our perspective on things.

Those are what will make a difference.

Edited April 28, 2016 by taurean

[Ashley]

I've been having cbt but I'm still at my wits end I don't know where to turn

CBT can work, but there are lots of factors that can impact on its effectiveness, one of which is the skill and knowledge of the therapist. Some truths are uncomfortable, and one of those uncomfortable truths is if we approach therapy half-hearted or approach it with the pre-disposition that 'it won't work for me', then there is a very good chance it won't work, and by approaching therapy with that mindset we have sabotaged it for ourselves before we even start.

That's not to say it can't work or won't work in the future but we have to be honest with ourselves and ask ourselves am I in the right frame of mind for therapy (I wasn't always) and did I approach this with an open and positive attitude?

[bruces]

I'm probably the same and it's probably likely that a lot of people having cbt will have depression too so a negative mindset is often going to be present within that person,please don't take this as if I'm knocking cbt but that's why I think better treatments need to be found because the success of the treatment shouldn't be based on a persons mindset,imagine if a person battling a physical illness is told it'll only work if they believe it will work.

[taurean]

I'm probably the same and it's probably likely that a lot of people having cbt will have depression too so a negative mindset is often going to be present within that person,please don't take this as if I'm knocking cbt but that's why I think better treatments need to be found because the success of the treatment shouldn't be based on a persons mindset,imagine if a person battling a physical illness is told it'll only work if they believe it will work.

The depression can be primary or consequent.

In my case depression is a consequence of the OCD. So getting stuck into what I know from my therapy is the right approach is also the right treatment for the depression.

Like Ashley I think belief and engagement are vital in gaining from CBT.

And to tackle your point bruces re physical illness, there have been many many examples of people getting better who have changed their thinking to a positive bias that really helps their mental take on it, and subsequently their physical recovery.

The powerful benefits of acceptance belief connection and dedication to treatment or therapy should not be underestimated.

[snowbear]

the success of the treatment shouldn't be based on a persons mindset, imagine if a person battling a physical illness is told it'll only work if they believe it will work.

Why shouldn't the success of treatment be based on a person's mindset if they're dealing with a 'broken mind'?

Broken bones get a plaster cast put on, but if you've got thin bones the break won't heal as fast as someone sporty who breaks a bone, plaster cast or not.

If someone has cancer and doesn't eat properly, doesn't look after themselves, doesn't take their medicine then they will end up a lot sicker than someone who fights it by eating well and doing everything they can to help themselves alongside taking any cancer treatment.

Your baseline health always affects how quickly you heal from something. Your mental attitude always influences how you heal. Even the common cold lasts less time in people who take good care of their bodies and stay mentally positive.

Why do you think it should be different for an illness that affects the mind? If anything mental attitude is even more important when we're dealing with mental health!

We expect someone who is physically ill to eat well, rest properly and take care of their body as best they can so they'll get better as quickly as possible. People with a mental illness have the same kind of obligation to fight the depression and negativity, to get themselves into the best possible mindset for the fastest recovery.

Whether the problem is physical or mental there's a lot you can do to help yourself get well again faster.

Edited April 28, 2016 by snowbear

[Ashley]

I'm probably the same and it's probably likely that a lot of people having cbt will have depression too so a negative mindset is often going to be present within that person,please don't take this as if I'm knocking cbt but that's why I think better treatments need to be found because the success of the treatment shouldn't be based on a persons mindset,imagine if a person battling a physical illness is told it'll only work if they believe it will work.

In time maybe there will be something better than CBT where a person's mindset won't matter and therapy will work regardless, but right now we don't have that. What we do have is a therapy, which if done right can often make a difference and the mindset of both therapist and patient does play a part on the outcome of the therapy.

Depression and low mood are all too common with OCD, but for the most part that shouldn't impact on a person saying to themselves, 'life sucks right now, but I am starting therapy and hopefully it will help', especially where OCD is the main problem. Most therapists can work with co-morbid issues like that.

For a few people whose depression is far worse than their OCD then it may be a case that they need to work on treating the depression first, but that's a rare occurrence I would guess. I have rarely seen you talk about OCD on here Bruces, and I think that's significant.

[bruces]

I would probably say depression and gad are a greater problem for me currently but I would say the ocd is most likely the root cause of it but I won't go into detail as this thread isn't about my ocd

[Caramoole]

Are you prepared to make any changes Bruces, to engage?

I've seen you cite many reasons as to why not......but rarely a declaration/intention as to an attempt to try a different approach. Without a shift in thinking you're going to struggle

[bruces]

I need to try and adjust my negative thoughts

[taurean]

Yes bruces. See if you can turn around that negative bias by actively seeking out a more positive interpretation - it can over time really make a difference.

Good luck with it my friend.

[bruces]

Thank you I had cbt but she's going to cancel it

[Lynz]

There's a huge psychological element to Tourette's as well, just like OCD.

So why assume the link is neurological rather than psychological? My money's on the interaction between neurology and psychology.

Print this in bold and gold lettering. Well said, Gemma.

The idea the brain is 'misfiring' is to misunderstand how thinking works. A misfire is when you try to recall the word for those woolly things you put on your feet and come up with 'gloves' instead of 'socks', or when you come up completely blank because the message asking the question failed to cross the brain.

OCD thoughts aren't misfiring. The connections are firing normally, but the reasoning which follows is the problem; the meaning which is assigned to the thoughts and the interpretation put on them.

That's not faulty brain cells misfiring, it's a mis-learned response to a normal stimulus.

Perhaps we confuse the issue by talking about 'faulty wiring.' But the wiring routes of the brain are as changeable as the route you take to get from the sofa to the fridge. Most people walk the same thin strip of carpet each time because it's the fastest route, but that doesn't mean they can't take a detour at will, or change direction and go out the door.

The route (wiring) isn't the fault - it's the decision to eat another unhealthy snack instead of going out for a walk that's the problem.

But we talk about 'faulty wiring' as a convenient shorthand for faulty reasoning.

This should also be printed in bold,gold letters, GBG.

The terminology we use is important because there are two easy traps to fall into which can become problematic in themselves.

The first is to identify the self with the OCD - as Ashley said, calling yourself an OCD'er.

This isn't helpful. :no: You are a person who happens to have OCD. You are not your OCD. Reclaiming your non-OCD identity is vital to full recovery.

The second extreme is to treat your thoughts 'like a ghost in the machine'. This is not helpful either. It denies responsibility for the thoughts. The problem with denying responsibility for how they think is people start to believe they have no control over their thoughts. But they do.

Please note: I'm not saying you can stop the random unwanted OCD thoughts from occurring, or that by having them you are responsible for the content.

But we are completely responsible for how we respond to the thoughts which our brains generate, even when those thoughts are unwanted. Accepting responsibility for how we proceed after a thought occurs is part of CBT and helps us learn how to react in more appropriate ways.

Terminology is important.

The words we use to talk to ourselves in our heads about our thoughts influences the content of the thoughts we have.

The language we use without thinking plays a part in framing our outlook and beliefs. It steers the behavioural response we have to our thoughts.

Just caught up on this thread. I just wanted to jump in and say this is a great post, thank you!

[Guest doris]

but that's why I think better treatments need to be found because the success of the treatment shouldn't be based on a persons mindset,imagine if a person battling a physical illness is told it'll only work if they believe it will work.

this is partly why I think it's interesting to look at ocd in animals(though I read that it is only called compulsive disorders since we can't know what thoughts the animal is having)

with animals you are not working with their thoughts and yet they can be treated, it seems, quite successfully with ssri's (same success rate as with people with ocd apparently)

The thing with animals that might be a bonus though is that the human taking care of the animal can be sure the animal is eating well, exercising and is in a stress free environment--I think those things help in recovery (in my experience anyhow.) with humans we can have a harder time making healthy choices for ourselves.

I still obviously really advocate for cbt treatment--since that is helping me tremendously. but just find the animal studies interesting.

I feel for you, Bruces, that you aren't seeing much improvement with the cbt or meds--that must be tough. maybe that is why your counsellor was trying to start at more of a basic level with things like self-care (I believe you mentioned that's what she was doing in a different thread anyhow.) dealing with the depression first may be your way out.

[Legend]

There's a huge psychological element to Tourette's as well, just like OCD.

So why assume the link is neurological rather than psychological? My money's on the interaction between neurology and psychology.

Print this in bold and gold lettering. Well said, Gemma.

The idea the brain is 'misfiring' is to misunderstand how thinking works. A misfire is when you try to recall the word for those woolly things you put on your feet and come up with 'gloves' instead of 'socks', or when you come up completely blank because the message asking the question failed to cross the brain.

OCD thoughts aren't misfiring. The connections are firing normally, but the reasoning which follows is the problem; the meaning which is assigned to the thoughts and the interpretation put on them.

That's not faulty brain cells misfiring, it's a mis-learned response to a normal stimulus.

Perhaps we confuse the issue by talking about 'faulty wiring.' But the wiring routes of the brain are as changeable as the route you take to get from the sofa to the fridge. Most people walk the same thin strip of carpet each time because it's the fastest route, but that doesn't mean they can't take a detour at will, or change direction and go out the door.

The route (wiring) isn't the fault - it's the decision to eat another unhealthy snack instead of going out for a walk that's the problem.

But we talk about 'faulty wiring' as a convenient shorthand for faulty reasoning.

This should also be printed in bold,gold letters, GBG.

The terminology we use is important because there are two easy traps to fall into which can become problematic in themselves.

The first is to identify the self with the OCD - as Ashley said, calling yourself an OCD'er.

This isn't helpful. :no: You are a person who happens to have OCD. You are not your OCD. Reclaiming your non-OCD identity is vital to full recovery.

The second extreme is to treat your thoughts 'like a ghost in the machine'. This is not helpful either. It denies responsibility for the thoughts. The problem with denying responsibility for how they think is people start to believe they have no control over their thoughts. But they do.

Please note: I'm not saying you can stop the random unwanted OCD thoughts from occurring, or that by having them you are responsible for the content.

But we are completely responsible for how we respond to the thoughts which our brains generate, even when those thoughts are unwanted. Accepting responsibility for how we proceed after a thought occurs is part of CBT and helps us learn how to react in more appropriate ways.

Terminology is important.

The words we use to talk to ourselves in our heads about our thoughts influences the content of the thoughts we have.

The language we use without thinking plays a part in framing our outlook and beliefs. It steers the behavioural response we have to our thoughts.

Speaking as a tourettes sufferer and ex ocd sufferer , one is controllable one isnt

[snowbear]

Speaking as a tourettes sufferer and ex ocd sufferer, one is controllable one isnt

I agree the Tourette's tics are neurological in origin. But there is a psychological component to the disorder.

In Tourette's:

- Stress increases the tics and makes them harder to suppress (for those able to partially suppress them at will, I know not everybody can.)

- Distraction and focusing techniques (keeping the brain otherwise occupied) can stop the tics completely in the short term.

- Emotional states influence the number and severity of tics.

In OCD:

- Stress increases the frequency of unwanted thoughts and makes the compulsions harder to resist. (Can still be done, but typically takes more effort.)

- Distraction and focusing techniques (keeping the brain fully occupied with other things) can stop the OCD thoughts completely in the short term.

- Emotional states influence the intensity of obsessive thoughts and compulsions.

Since stress, thought focus, and emotional states are controllable, I would argue that Tourette's isn't uncontrollable.

There is a psychological component to it, just like OCD. It's currently not possible (with the treatments available) to overcome Tourette's completely because there is that neurological component (brain misfiring) too. But to my mind al that does is suggest OCD is probably more psychological than neurological and Tourette's more neurological than psychological. It doesn't separate the neurology from the psychology. It doesn't qualify Tourette's as uncontrollable.

Just my opinion and reasoning. Feel free to disagree.

[Legend]

Pyschological intervention with tourettes helpful, but as neuroligcal disorder eases symptoms of

CBT wise OCD as as suffering perspective, ocd more treatable as response to, Tourettes less responsive pyschological wise, knowledge yes, but not working at reduction of , acceptance of and awareness of those who recognition and understanding

Apologies if doesn't make sense , not so good at explaining

Edited April 29, 2016 by Legend

[Legend]

Ill add more tomorrow snowbear re TS and OCD , thank you for raising, because I can see differently, differential between ocd and tourettes once I got better from OCD ,

Edited April 29, 2016 by Legend